Cinnamon Dom edged female x Green male

[SCB 22]

Hey guys!!

Been a while and my brain is out of practise!!

My female is a Cinnamon Dom Edge (according to our experts here) and my male is a normal wild green male. I dont know the female parentage as she was bought in a petstore, but the male both parents are green.

What are my chances of getting anything other than green babies???

Thanks all!!!

Once again, so excited to be back!

[Recio]

Hi SCB

Dom edge seems to be a sex linked mutation. Thus your female is carrying cinnamon and dom edge in the same chromosome (type 1 linkage). We do not know which is the crossing over rate between dom edge and cinnamon (at least I do not know it) but, in this particular case, it is possible to know which are the genotypes and phenotypes expected:we can say that the offspring to expect is 100% green dom edge split cinnamon males (every male will inherit the dom edge and cinnamon genes from his mother) and 100% normal green females (every female sex chromosome is coming from the normal father).... so you will be able to visually sex your birds.

Regards

Recio

[SCB 22]

Thank you very much for that Recio....

What does a normal green dom edge look like?
I would appreciate if anyone could explain or put a link for any pics?

Thank You again

[Johan S]

Thank you very much for that Recio....

What does a normal green dom edge look like?
I would appreciate if anyone could explain or put a link for any pics?

Thank You again

The topic of edged birds was discussed not to long ago. You'll find some pictures there.

http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... 26&t=15415

@Recio: I'm pretty sure nobody knows the crossover rate of sex-linked dominant edge with any other sex-linked mutation yet. I think it is probably unique to IRN, being only the second sex-linked dominant mutation that I know of in any species. Anybody here maybe know of more? And with the relatively low number of offspring per season compared to budgerigar and roseicollis, I think it is going to take a long time to establish those numbers. Also, it doesn't help that most breeders don't know about it being sex-linked to begin with... I'm sure you knew that already, but maybe somebody else didn't.

[SCB 22]

Hi Johan,

Thanks for that, I actually read through that forum earlier this morning...

Recio, here is another question.

If I kept a young male, and bred him back with the cinnamon green dom edged female,
what would the outcome be? Cinnamon babies? Or just split cinnamons?

[Recio]

Come on SCB!!!

I remember your posts very well and I know you can deduce it yourself without any help.

Let's call "x" the probability of crossing over between dom edge and cinnamon ... which will be the % offspring of a (SF dom edge male split cinnamon with a type 1 linkage) X (dom edge cinnamon female)?

Try to do it ... and we will comment later

Regards

Recio

[SCB 22]

I used to be good at working out the genetics, but i am so out of practise.
I wasnt even going to breed this year, am down to just a single pair of birds from having about 4/5 pairs, and it was just a last minute decision to give them a box... So im still going back rereading old posts, trying to wrap my head around all our fancy mutation terminology!

I'll give it a bash at guessing though ....

if its

Cinnamon green dom edged female with
Green split cinnamon male

Obviously I will still get a percentage of normal green birds, and green split cinnamon as before?
But then also I would get visually cinnamon green birds correct? Would the dom edge come through in any of the cinnamon coloured offspring? Im not too sure with this pairing what % of babies will be which colour & gender though?

[Recio]

Hi SCB,

This possibility has not been added in any genetic calculator as far as I know. I am sure that Madas will add it in his software as soon as the crossing over rate will be known.

Let's analyse step by step for easier understanding.
First question: how may different types of gamets we will get from the male and from the female?

SF dom edge male split cinnamon with a type 1 linkage X dom edge cinnamon female

Results:

1. Female ovocytes will be two types:
1.1 Ovocytes without the Z chromossome and thus whithout dom edge ot cinnamon mutations .... 50%
1.2 Carrying the Z chromossome with both cinnamon and dom edge ... 50%

2. Male spermatozoids will show 4 types of Z chromossome: considering "x" as the crossing over rate
2.1 Cinnamon and dom edge .... 50-x/2 %
2.2 Cinnamon .... x/2 %
2.3 Dom edge .... x/2 %
2.4 Neither cinnamon nor dom edge ... 50-x/2 %

... and combining ovocytes and spermatozoids genetics we will get:

1. Females : they will inherit only one Z chromossome coming from their father:

Cinnamon and dom edge .... 50-x/2 % .... visual cinnamon dom edge
Cinnamon .... x/2 % ............................ visual cinnamon
Dom edge .... x/2 % ............................ visual dom edge
Neither cinnamon nor dom edge ... 50-x/2 % .... visual wild type

2. Males : they will inherit one Z chromosome from their mother (cinnamon dom edge) and another Z chromossome from their father:

Cinnamon and dom edge + cinnamon dom edge ... visual cinnamon DF dom edge (50-x/2%)
Cinnamon + cinnamon dom edge .... visual cinnamon SF dom edge (x/2%)
Dom edge + cinnamon dom edge .... visual DF dom edge split cinnamon (x/2%)
Neither cinnamon nor dom edge + cinnamon dom edge .... visual Sf dom edge split cinnamon (50-x/2%).

I hope it is right. Questions?

Regards

Recio

[SCB 22]

Well from 4 babies....

One is more an a normal green with dark black wing tips.
Three are seeming a lighter green, with greyish wing tips....

Soooo one female 3 males???

[SCB 22]

Hi Guys,

Pics arent great, and dont show the colour right now, but figured u might want to see the little guys!

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 5488739277

please let me know if the link works!

Thanks

[SCB 22]

Hahahah sorry guys, also added a pic or 2 of the mum, you will see her in 2 pics with my sister, she is the bird on the right obviously. (the turq is male, and i unfortunately no longer have him)

Would appreciate any feedback!

Thanks

[Recio]

Hi SCB,

Hard to say from the pics since the birds are not completely feathered and the focus and ligth is changing ... but dom edge should appear as a ligther green ... so I think that you are right and probably you have 3 males and 1 female. I do not breed this mutation, so I hope that somebody with breeding experience with dom edge could confirm. Madas?

Regards

Recio

[SCB 22]

Thank You Recio, much appreciated, yes unfortunately those pics are taken with flash, so you cannot see the difference, but I will def take some pics in natural light this weekend, and also take a few with the flights open on the darker one, and show to compare to the lighter ones, but it is a very definate difference in the flights of the 3 compared to the one. Were you able to see the pictures of the mother?

Madas, would really appreciate any feedback if you get a chance.