Baby biter!

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chobi
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Baby biter!

Post by chobi » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:40 pm

Chobi is only 11 weeks old and he bit me this morning quite hard. Im sorry if this is a silly question but is this a typical thing and is there any way for me to stop Chobi doing this altogether or to disipline him.
Thanks in advance!

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Post by tasha » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:47 pm

Chobi

Yes they do bite and from my experience mine bites often.
I have found that if I show it doesn't hurt and it won't stop me doing whatever it was I was doing my Indy stops

Tasha
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Post by Mikaela » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:58 pm

To better avoid bites:

Approach the cage speaking as you would to a baby in a crib. Open the door and say hello making sure your bird is aware of your presence.

When you are sure your baby knows you are there, confidently reach in below your bird and in one motion, swoop up from under the bird to its chest while giving the step-up command. By swoop I dont mean fast. I mean in one steady... confident motion. Once he or she feels your hand on their chest they will, by natural reaction, step-up even if all the while bitting the crap out of you.

If the bird bites, ignore it and continue pleasantly TELLING him or her to step up. Dont draw back. If the bird persists it obviously is in a foul mood, try again later.
Last edited by Mikaela on Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chobi
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Post by chobi » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:00 pm

Ok. Thankyou both for the help ill do that from now on. :D

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Post by jen5239 » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:29 pm

Hey Chobi,
Congrats on getting a new baby! And yes they bite and they bite freakin' hard! Speaking from experience. As a matter of fact I was bit about six times a few hours ago. Still have the blood on my right forefinger! My baby isn't that tame right now and we're working on that. And boy does he love to just bite the snot out of me. And like they said, you gotta take it. And yowza can it hurt! I've got two major Byndi SCARS on my hands from where he's torn in to me! People I work with--who are so not bird people--find it so funny that I spent so much $ on a pet that I can't even hold unless I get hurt pretty badly. But they don't know that in the end it will be worth it! The wonderful people on the board here all suggested to me to make your hand in to a fist and then they can't bite you as hard. Or offer him your forearm. Can't get much skin there either. And I've found with my Byndi that both of those suggestions work very well. So good luck and if and when you find yourself beat down--like I was yesterday-PLEASE POST!!! They will all come to your rescue! It's such a great society here! We all care about each other and want each other to be happy and our babies to be happy. So feel free to ask away. There is so much knowledge on this board! Soak it up like a sponge!

Take care,
Jen & Byndi
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Melika
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Post by Melika » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:10 am

IRNs can be such bitey birds. Hane just yesterday bit me- HARD, leaving a crescent wound from his bottom mandible. Little bugger. So I turned my back on him and closed the cage and walked out, which was opposite of what he wanted. I know that now he likes coming out and getting veggies on his playstand. I have a feeling he bit because I had him up late the night before, and he's grumpy when he hasn't had enough sleep.

Some IRNs (or birds in general) will bite a person wearing red. Or simple things like wearing a baseball cap can really freak birds out, lol.


But IRNs also go through biting stages where you just have to push through, as Mikaela, Jen, and Tasha have said. ^_^
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Post by baby_bella » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:46 am

thats so true mikila!!!!!!!!!!

if bella has a late night or if im out the night before without seeing her she is all grumpy in the mornings and bites me... its like she knows and its so funny all i do is laugh cause these birds are so so so smart. i put her cage in the living area now and she likes it so much better than my room... she tends to be a bit less bitey. but shes so good, sh only bites one or twice and other than that its just cute little nibbles she loves exploring her world. welll i guess that when your still a bub. :lol:
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Post by Mikaela » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:01 am

Like I would imagine AA being, I suppose we did sort of sponsor you yesterday Jen, although I have that tough love. Sometimes that is the only thing people hear, especially when they are feeling defeated.

I jerked a knot in your assitude (hehe) but you know it is cuz I love you and Byndi. And like dragging a drunkered from a bar, I dragged you back to that cage.

So Jen is right, on bad days, this place is priceless. We are here to push you back to that cage because bites or not, that bird WANTS you near him or her... all bad is done out of instinct, thereby not allowing us the emotion of feeling badly and taking it personally. Although, I remember I use to.

We have all been taken aback by our birds mean/vicious behavior to us at on point or another, or frustrated and tossed it in the cage and walked away. We all have but what makes us different is we love these creatures so much we ALWAYS calm ourselves and, like a boxer, jump in the ring for more.
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Post by Neokireina » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:54 am

I actually feel a bit bad, None of my IRNs bite. I'm half tempted to go out and get a bitey one so I can experience what you all do.

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Post by Mikaela » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:57 am

You said your IRN thought he was a 'tiel. That may explain it. 'Tiels are too lazy to bite, or eat for that matter but they must to stay alive.
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Post by Neokireina » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:09 am

Niamh is 100% male ringneck and he has never ever bitten he doesnt like cockatiels much if they are grey, they are ok if they are not grey. Not even once. He trained Kiva on how to be a ringneck but now he's gone Kiva became a cockatiel. I'll let you know how growls goes when he gets old enough, also these birds never even went through a bluffing stage.

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Post by Mikaela » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:45 am

Funny Melika... Baby bite me yesterday. I havent been biten in months and dont even think or expect it.

Maybe our babies are pissed about the weather? I know I am.

It was a hard one too. *shows you her moon*

HA! That didnt sound funny til after I wrote it so Imma leave it. :twisted:
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Melika
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Post by Melika » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:23 am

Mikaela wrote:Funny Melika... Baby bite me yesterday. I havent been biten in months and dont even think or expect it.

Maybe our babies are pissed about the weather? I know I am.

It was a hard one too. *shows you her moon*

HA! That didnt sound funny til after I wrote it so Imma leave it. :twisted:


I don't know, but all of a sudden he just bit me hard like that. And he's been nibbly more than usual. hmm

*checks food bowl*

nope, he has food, lol.
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Post by Neokireina » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:34 am

ah but does he have chew toys? :P

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Melika
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Post by Melika » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:53 am

He has toys of every kind, and plays with them all.

He's just been so... unsatisfied I suppose, of late. I don't know why yet. Weather is the only thing that has changed.
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Post by Neokireina » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:51 am

give him a phone book? maybe he just needs to be destructive and rip something to shreds.

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Melika
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Post by Melika » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:53 am

Probably. I'll give him another paper toy- comp paper rolled and twisted, lol.
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Post by Mikaela » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:54 am

Do we have to worry about ink poisoning with that?

Im such a freak-o I wont even line play stands with newspaper or let my babies play with paper towel rolls anymore, and that is by far their favorite toy. :cry:
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Melika
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Post by Melika » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:59 am

No ink on blank sheets of comp paper.... :roll:
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Post by Mikaela » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:03 am

I was referring to the phone book Melika.

What is with you today? So argumentative. Go back and re-read your posts this morning. I am actually beginning to wonder if someone is posting under your nick, although I ran an IP on you and that isnt the case.
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Post by Neokireina » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:25 am

I had a bit of a look, I'm not sure about the ink, but I went to the shops today and I'm glad I had done my research.

I was looking for screws and nails and so on to make a playstand, will post pics when it's done. Most of the nails were ZINC coated or Brass.. These are BAD.. I got stainless steel screws and normal steel nails. they also had Galvenised.. which is ok as long as you wash it FIRST.

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chobi
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Post by chobi » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:20 am

Sorry to bump this thread again but i have some good and bad news. The good is that Chobi does not bite me when i am getting him from his cage anymore or when he is on my finger ect. However the bad news is that not always but sometimes when i put my finger on my shoulder and say "up-up" (his step up command) he lunges at my finger and bites, now this isnt all the time just a bit. Another thing is that he is obsessed with my shirt collar and shirt neck, he likes to chew it a bit. Is that a bad habit that should be taken care of? Thankyou everyone for the help all of you are really nice and helpful.

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Post by Melika » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:35 am

Yes, this should be taken care of. Until you can fully trust him on your shoulder, and have more 'up' practice behind you, you might consider no shoulder time at all for a while.

Hane, my IRN, will step up just fine from my shoulder. He hasn't bittren me yet when I go to get him down. This is in part, I believe, because he isn't on my shoulder for extended periods of time. But my experience with other shoulder-bound birds is that they can't be allowed back up until they act properly. Shoulder time is a priviledge- bird bites= no shoulder. Good bird=shoulder. ^_^

This can prevent more serious issues, such as pierced ears and fingers. ^^
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Post by Mikaela » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:36 am

It is very common for them to chew on your clothing or jewelry, if it doesnt bother you dont worry about it.

However, Any bird that does not step from your shoulder, when asked, shouldnt be up there. :cry:

Peek-a-Boo will step off so she gets shoulder time, Baby will not so she does not.

They are 'above' us when they are up there. We have to show them no matter where they are, even as high as the moon, they do as we say when we say or they dont get shoulder time... period. If you sway from this, it could lead to worse behavioral problems.

Sounds like you have done a great job with him/her. So please dont set yourself up for setbacks. I know it is so great when they are so close to you but the problems it will cause down the road is not worth it.

Let me know if you want further resources on this topic.
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chobi
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Post by chobi » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:52 am

He only wont step up when he is preoccupied with my shirt or my hair. It doesnt bother me. Sorry to sound dumb but how can i fix this problem about my shoulder, i like him on my shoulder and he does too. If it wouldnt be too much trouble could you please show me a way that i can teach him to obey me like you said above. Thankyou :wink:

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Post by Melika » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:56 am

Perhaps give him a warning before asking him to step up, before your finger is there. Maybe something like, "Okay, time to get down now." and then put your finger up and ask him to step onto it. He may just not like being interrupted. So try to get his attention first before putting your finger near his beak. ^_^
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Post by Mikaela » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:04 am

You are heading for ALOT OF SCREAMING if you continue with so much shoulder time. Fair warning.

You will end up having to put her there or she will scream until you do, relentlessly. I know it is cute and cool but it is something to be kept to a bare minimum even with a step downer. Never with one that wont step down.

I pray you are aware of the amount of damage these birds can do. I know a girl having a plug fixed on her face from her ringneck not wanting to step from her shoulder. This is her 4th surgery. They are filling the chunk with the fat in her rear. :oops:
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chobi
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Post by chobi » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:11 am

Ok :shock: So what is a good alternative to the shoulder time. I dont always have Chobi on my shoulder i do have him on my finger.

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Post by Carly » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:57 am

Shoulder time is a tricky one. personally, when i had 'tiels i was alway comfortable with them on my shoulder, but i've never let my ringnecks do it. It is convenient to have them on your shoulder because it means you can do stuff and walk around with them on your shoulder rather than on your hand, but to me its not worth the risk of a nasty facial scar or losing an eye - not because my birds are viscious but just because accidents happen and it could be as simple as something giving your bird a fright and it reacts badly and bites you instead - 'displaced aggression' its called.

My male IRN Rajah does it alot, particuarly when i walk away from the cage and he hasnt finished talking to me - he takes it out on the poor bell - flashes his eyes, squarks and lunges at that bell. hes annoyed im leaving so he bites the closest thing (the bell), therefore 'displacing' the aggression onto the bell, which didnt do anything to annoy him but ends up getting bitten anyway.

so do you let them on your shoulder? its just a judgement call that everyone has to make i guess.

on the topic of biting, i havent seen it suggested in this post but a technique that works well for me is the 'wobble technique'. if your bird is on your hand and bites you, you just wobble or tip your hand enough to put the bird off balance. they have to stop thinking about biting and suddenly concentrate on keeping their balance, and it usually distracts them enough that they forget they were in the middle of biting you! it has worked well for my girl Sari who was really bad when i first got her.

good luck with chobi, i just have my birds on my arm to carry them around or on my lap if they want a 'cuddle'. if you have a playstand than that can be a good way for them to be in the same room with you without being actually on you.

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Post by Mikaela » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:58 am

You could sit with him while you watch Tv or are online... whatever. Allow him on your forearm and dont allow him to go any further.

You could also buy a little play stand for him to perch on as you play and interact with him. I know you will miss shoulder time too but it is crutial to avoid if they refuse to step down.
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Post by Neokireina » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:49 am

be careful with the wobble thing. The bird may regard your hand as an unstable spot and want to get to your nice safe shoulder even more. I'm not saying its a bad idea, just be aware that you dont cause less trust.

I'm really happy to have my ringnecks on my shoulders, but I know my birds and they dont bite. Really know your bird and get a good trusting relationship going before you let it near your face. Also have the step down perfect.

I would suggest working up to shoulder time, until then keep it on your hands I guess. Also to keep your bird from chewing your shirt maybe keep some foot toys handy and offer him one of those. Maybe even clip one to your shirt if he drops it too much. Or you could make a "bird activity shirt" Taken from http://www.birdsnways.com/birds/ideas.htm#g7111904

Submitted by: Tim - TBurgener@aol.com - November 19, 1997
Can be used for All Size Birds

Find an old shirt that you are comfortable wearing - but no longer in public. The best kind to use is a lightweight (thinner the better) button up shirt. (Or buy a cheap one that fits this task...)

Find a stash of extra buttons, beads, colored string, fancy dress trimming, lace, etc. Grandmothers are good sources for stashing wonderful collections of the oddest material and obnoxious buttons, but you can also find stuff in sewing/craft shops (even Walmart).

Now just sit down during your next favorite TV show, and start randomly sewing things on the shirt. Don't put any buttons on the back side (it might poke you), but distrubute the items all over the shirt, collar, and sleeve(s).

Now the bird(s) can spend more time on you without trying to damage your hair and jewelry, or preen your skin. If your standing a lot, put enough things on (and under) the collar. If you recline a lot, let your bird play on your toy infested stomach! I just added a zipper to my shirt, and my Quaker trys to pull it in both directions!

Lastly, when you wash the shirt, it is wise to use a protective bag like the kind that protect lingerie. It will do okay in the regular wash, but saftey is best.

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chobi
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Post by chobi » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:26 pm

Yes ok thats cool ill try that :)
I was in my local pet shop yesterday and i saw a mini-playground for parrots so i thought id buy it. it is quite expensive but when i saw it i knew that chobi would like it. Well shoulder time has stopped now and it has turned to knee, finger and lap time and he still likes it and at night he falls asleep on me. He has never tried to bite my face or anything just my finger. Would an indoor perch be good as well for chobi, my uncle said he would make me one with food and water bowls on it as well. I may have forgotten to tell you this before but Chobi is a handraised bird and i just finished his handfeeding 2 days ago. Wow this place is an infinate gyser of information. Much appreciated. :D

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Post by Mikaela » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:27 pm

Chobi:

That is the cutest avatar on the entire board :!:
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chobi
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Post by chobi » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:36 pm

Thankyou Mikaela :D Its off a show called Final Fantasy Umlimited and it is a Chocobo (A big ostrich like bird but really cute) and his name is co-incidently Chobi, that is where i got my Chobi's name from.

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Post by Neokireina » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:55 pm

**Wark** or should I say *Kweh*

Have you seen Advent Children?

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chobi
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Post by chobi » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:33 pm

No i havent. I live in Australia and we havent got it yet. But i hope to see it :)

My breeder told me when Chobi bites to flick him on the beak and say NO! and if he persists threaten to flick him again untill he stops. I thought it wasnt very nice so i havent tried it is it a good technique?

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Post by Melika » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:27 pm

chobi wrote:No i havent. I live in Australia and we havent got it yet. But i hope to see it :)

My breeder told me when Chobi bites to flick him on the beak and say NO! and if he persists threaten to flick him again untill he stops. I thought it wasnt very nice so i havent tried it is it a good technique?


With birds, violence tends to beget violence. So you flick him, then he may not trust your finger and then bite. But saying NO isn't bad, just the flicking is bad. ^^

I'll immediately say NO and set Hane down and turn my back on him if he bites, and I've found it works very well. He HATES to be ignored, and birds understand what turning your back on them means, since it's a bird behavior already. ^_^
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Post by Neokireina » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:49 pm

Its bad to "punish" your bird as they dont understand punishment. I live in australia. My friend bought a copy in japan. It's a really good movie keeps in with the game too. No chocobos tho :( sorry for that little spoiler.

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Post by Melika » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:04 am

Like Hane has never punished me?! LOL. And they know what turning your back on them means, and it's only temporary- not even a full minute passes. I use the thirty seconds to calm down after being bit. It's a good idea to be calm when you want to work with your bird. They can pick up on your stresses.
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Post by Mikaela » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:27 am

These are smart birds, they know what NO means.

I can be working with Baby and say "girl, I am getting tired of messing with you" and she instantly begins conforming. For example, if she is under the table playing 'bet you cant catch the birdie through the 34 legs'. (God I hate that game though it tends to be her favorite). I can say that phrase and she comes hopping out like the dork she is.

When Peek-a-Boo gets nippy and I say No Bite, she bows her head. So I am positive that these creatures not only know what we are saying but also feel emotion, to some degree. Or she wouldnt bow her head in shame.

I will say from experience though, it isnt good to say no bite while applying a small amount of pressure on the beak with your finger, which is what I was told but my breeder. My girls DID not receive that too well and I found to be ineffective. Imran warned me :oops: I never said I wasnt hard-headed.

Does your birdie hop around the cage, excited to see you? That is an emotion
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Post by Neokireina » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:47 am

Please read these articles because this is what I was referring to.

http://www.companionparrot.com/articles/punish.html

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww44e.htm

But I've been worrying about my stupid cockatiels not sitting on the baby so I'm sorry if i'm only partially coherant.

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Post by Mikaela » Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:16 am

I saved those articles, reading through them, good stuff.

I have to get up at the crack of dawn for me time, kids are waking up now. Thanks hun.
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Post by Melika » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:16 pm

Yup, very good articles.
In that sense, yes, it's bad to "punish".


When you have cases with an excited bird, a bird simply pinching or nibbling, ect., then it's not the bird with the problem. But don't reward pinching either.

Hane, however, when I say he bites I'm saying he bites- hard and through the skin. He doesn't do it often, not anymore. He has rules, rule # 1 is no biting; if you bite you aren't allowed on your person.
I can't leave him down for more than thirty seconds, or he'll forget why he's there. I wait until he's trying to get back to me, then just a little longer until he's really trying and then will turn and invite him back up.

If he's just nibbing but it's hurting me, we do the step up for a bit; this is something I've always done with all my birds. It's effective.

But punishment in the sense of isolation for long periods of time, such as the bathroom, closet (lol at Sally's amazon) or hitting, is not effective at all.


I found the 'too whistling when leaving home fascinating.That's a very good idea, something similar to what I do with Killer when he decides to scream as I'm leaving. Good to know I'm supposed to do that, lol.
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I've been called 'birdbrained' before, but somehow I don't think this is what they meant. say:hah-nay

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Mikaela
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Location: Islamorada Key, Florida U.S.A.
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Post by Mikaela » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:26 pm

Yeah, punishment is a strong word compared to what I think most of us find appropriate.

Isolating a bird is just stupid, like they are going to remember 10 secs after they are put away. I'd slap someone upside the head for less than that. :evil:

At MOST a firm Nooo, in a child-like way is the most effective I've found. However for Peek-a-Boo a Nooo only makes it worse. She takes it very personally and gets nervous, bless her heart.

For some birds, no is great. For others, they internalize it and behave worse (Peek-a-Boo).
~ Mikaela Sky

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chobi
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Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:55 am
Location: Alstonville, Australia

Post by chobi » Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:54 pm

Sorry but i have been very busy latley and have not been able to get online with all this school certificate stuff. I read those articles and they are a good read and very helpful. Yesterday i went into town and bought a play pen for Chobi, it has perches bells toys ropes and a swing on it. Chobi loves it and he knows now that when its play time and im busy studying he can play and eat fruit next to my desk and not come on a hike over my work. Well on topic now...When i bought the playpen for Chobi at the pet store the owner asked me a few questions about Chobi and i told him about a problem about occasioal biting, he told me to lower the perches on his cage so when i aproach it i am not looking at him at eye level as in the bird kingdom there is a pecking order measured by size and the noise that one bird can be and produce, i have shown to Chobi that i am boss and ever since i havent been biten once!! he bows his head to get a scratch (in which is frequent). I have said this once (or probably more) but i cant stress how grateful i am to be given all this advice and i thank you all again! With your help me and Chobi are very good buddies and im positive that Chobi is grateful too.

AJPeter
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Re: Baby biter!

Post by AJPeter » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:51 am

A good way to stop being bitten it to keep your fingers out of their beaks. I get bitten all the time it is an occupational hazard.

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