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Major HELP needed please

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Topaz
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Major HELP needed please

Post by Topaz » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:07 pm

How do you tame an INR which doesn't appear to have ever been handled at all?
I'm talking about Sapphire. I tried the open cage, and then when he/she managed to fall to the ground I tried to pick up, runs away (luckily in a closed room) screaming, and then when I finally do managed to catch it just bites and screams the whole time - we went this route twice and each time managed to get further away for longer, and screamed more and more and bit harder - couldn't quieten it down at all until back in the cage - so anyone any ideas please. (Bird Crazy - I tried all your suggestions, but no luck at all)
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Aw I'm sorry

Post by Bird crazy » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:45 pm

Hm, been rereading Guide to a Well Behaved Parrot by Mattie Sue Athan
and she suggested all the passive games to gain the birds trust first and lessen it's fear but once you get past that I'm not sure what to do. Maybe just keep the door open and let Sapphire decide to come out on her own and then try to tempt with treats. I am a firm believer in food wins them over. My birds will come to me for a peanut no matter how mad tired or determined they are. They will stop what they are doing for a peanut. Have you got a food she just loves like that? But if she is stuck to the cage somehow you have to get her away from it for her to learn there is saftey other places.

I also recently got a book on clicker training. Not sure if that will have anything in it to help but I'll browse it and if I come up with anything I'll let you know.

Anybody else with a clue?
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Post by Peanut » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:55 pm

i would do exactaly that. tempt with treats. it works wonders for me. and leaving the cage open is a good idea also. maybe put her by a window so she can look out. peanut loves to sit by the window and watch the snow fall

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Topaz
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Post by Topaz » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:59 pm

Unfortunately Sue I can't just leave the cage open and the dogs live in the house too, and I'm sure that the one poodle will chase and try and catch Sapphire - and that wouldn't do at all. The other things that have happened now, is that Sapphire will come out the top of the cage, but won't try and come down unless I walk towards the cage then it tries to fly off, which of course means crashes to the floor (carpeted though) and then the trauma all over again.

I'm also scared of hurting the bird and traumatising it so much that it won't come near me at all.

At the moment I haven't found any particular food that will tempt it either - peanuts don't seem to be popular, tried fruit, I suppose I could try sweets (lollies).
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Post by Donna » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:34 pm

This is going to sound stupid but really it looks stupider then it sounds. I have an IRN that I've had for 8 months now, and still can not handle her. I keep trying though. Every night I pull up a chair open her door and just rest my whole hand and arm on her favorite perch. I read a book or talk to her and now after 8 months she is just now pecking at my hand sometimes hard and somethimes just a little nip. I never pull away or jump and make a big deal out of the nips. I do this every night for about 15 minutes. I feel we are making progress just not real fast.

Donna

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Post by Lauren » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:57 am

I have the same troubles with my 4 months old, Yoda. But Im hoping patience will prevail.

I talk softly to him everyday and practice step ups everyday even though he will fly away. Ive noticed he will only step up if hes in the cage so I let him sit on my finger for a minute. Patience.

The idea is that he needs to know your a friend not enemy. Yoda will watch Gilbert and I interact everytime I play with Gilbert. I can see the curiousity in his eyes.

Keep offering food, 'help' it get to where it wants to go by picking it up and puting it where it wants to get to, talk and sit with it and if you can, hold it in a towel give head scratches for a couple of minutes.

How long have you had Sapphire now?
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Topaz
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Post by Topaz » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:12 am

We got Sapphire on 2nd January - I guess I am expecting too much, but this intense fear of me is really worrying, even if we (hubby and I)just walk past the cage (and we have it inside now) Sapphire freaks out and tries to run away, and then falls inside the cage because of the clipped wings.
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Post by Lauren » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:38 am

Give it a few weeks. We got Yoda start of November and hes only just settling down, hes not flying away all the time and is becoming more curious everyday. But it just takes time.

Whenever Sapphire falls down pick it up and assure it wont be harmed. Just like a mummy bird. :wink:

Patience and time.
"Jibby aka Gilbert" Indian Ringneck 13 years "Charlie" Rex Rabbit 1 year

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Topaz
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Post by Topaz » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:42 am

I would love to pick it up when it falls, but there is no way that it will let me anywhere near, I am just trying the advice given by Donna at the moment just talking and sitting with my hand in the cage, so far Sapphire just runs up and down and around the cage as far away from me as possible - gosh I do hope we get there.
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Post by Mikaela » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:18 am

I am learning and dealing with and about a scared bird I just adopted, Buddy the lutino.

This is how I have been doing it:

He is always where the other birds are and he seems content, even down right happy to be left to look at. However, I HAVE to have well-trained birds because of fire, whatever... you never know. What I do know is I dont need to be negotiating with an animal during a crisis so when I say do something... they do it. No thought. Done.

With my scared boy, I left him completely uncaged, as my birds always are. I interact with my birds and he watches. It went from him fleeing when I got near to just watching me.

Now, I reckon 3 weeks later? Im not sure when I got my Buddy, so much going on then... Dec 20th? Anyway, he is stepping up and since he isnt always standing on huge branches, he will now perch on my finger without fanning out and looking odd.

He had always only had HUGE perches so it made him sit back and hand down, off the back, feet wide apart. I have that corrected. He is now sitting ON TOP of the perch. Feet together and body erect.

He thinks he has to flap his little wings to step up though hehe. When he steps up he is flapping like a wacko lol but he gets on my finger, bless his heart.

A running bird stays on a stand when I train. NO cages. It sets them up to hurt themselves fleeing, IMHO whereas a stand, they simply flutter to the ground and swoop... drama over. Once they are on the floor. You get to save them.

Thus, they step up! Rinse, repeat!
~ Mikaela Sky

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Post by Donna » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:58 am

Topaz This is what is so great about this board. What works for some birds may not work for others so you take bits and pieces of everybody's advise and work with it. My wild lady will not step up even if she flies to the floor she just keeps running and tring to fly into windows or even worse she will flutter to the big bird cages and that would be a disaster. Thats why I work with her in the cage to get the trust issue worked out. I work with the bigger birds also and trust me there is no easy fix to training any bird if there was we wouldn't need the board. Good luck and keep us posted.

Donna

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Topaz
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Post by Topaz » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:41 pm

You guys are fantastic, I would like to thank you all for taking the time to answer me. I sincerely hope that I am going to be able to work with what you have given me - believe I will try. Thanks again and I will let you know how I get on.
Anne
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Topaz
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Post by Topaz » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:04 pm

Have any of the forum members used any of the following ebooks or videos to train their birds?

www.birdtricks.com
www.parrotsecrets.com/parakeets/

If you have, could you let me know whether they are a worthwhile investment as I don't want to buy unnecessary so called "help" files.
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Post by ambros1a » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:38 pm

well, we spent a lot of money on the bird tricks set, and honestly, we havent used it one bit! we originally wanted it hoping it would teach HOW to step up and simple things like that, but they dont go into as much detail as we would have liked. We did talk about the dvds a while back, saying that when archimedes gets clipped (we didnt get to the vet on the weekend) we wanna try working with him from it. But of course, you prety much need to learn the tricks, then teach ur fids.
My partner did not feel as though it was a worthwhile investment due to the price , but maybe one day we will get our moneys worth out of it... However i have spoken to 1 or 2 ppl that loved the dvds and recommend them as a great tool, it could just be us... lol
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Post by Bird crazy » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:40 pm

got the bird tricks video and don't think it's much help for a bird that won't even step up or let you come near it.
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Post by Elizabeth » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:15 am

Hi! I got a 12 month old Rainbow Lorikeet and he is what we call (in Australia) an avairy bird. He is not tame but he is okay with domestic living.

Anyway, I am in the exact position as you and would like info, hence why I'm here. He will scream at me if I look at him (unless I'm filling up the food bowls), if i put my hands near him he screams and flutters like mad, I'm sure he'd really draw blood if i held him in my hand.

So, i got him 4 weeks ago, he slowly gets better. I can clean his avairy without him screaming! And he isn't so scared. I once found somebody's lost cockatiel and it would hiss and carry on, so i know my lorikeet isn't as bad as he could be.

Thinking about buying a bird behaviour book, can't find any Aus ones but would like to find one. I've read Mattie Sue Athen's one and a few US ones. I'm looking for a great book on taming UNTAME birds - not handreared. Its difficult to get enough info on this!

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Topaz
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Post by Topaz » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:04 am

WEll everyone, we have had some success - as you can see from the photos, we are out of the cage. Still won't come to me, sometimes "steps up", but then flutters off the perch to the ground, but we are getting better (both of us).

I usually still have to use a small towel put over Sapphire to get it back into the cage, but on the whole I feel so much more confident - once again to all of you - thank you so much for the help.

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Post by Peanut » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:10 am

congrats on the progress! wow. i never thought irn's were so hard to tame. i should really be lucky and thankful that peanut is as good as he is. i cant even imagine how hard it must be to do that. congrats again!

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Post by CatsChair » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:58 am

Congrats! What a doll.
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Post by Mikaela » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:53 am

Yes! Progress!

That baby will be all over you in noooo time.

As far as training an unclipped, aviary bird... I would equate that with trying to tame a wild bird that feeds at your feeder in your back yard... many years to gain trust.

They dont have to trust you, they only have to flee. A natural reaction. I commend you for such an under-taking!
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Post by Kateykat » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:43 pm

Congrats. Just take it slow, IRN live a very long time so hopefully the two of you will have a looooong time to get to know each other.
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Post by Elizabeth » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:22 pm

Great, you know, you are an inspiration to me and my bird (though he's a lorikeet).

Mikaela, I think you were talking partly to me? If so, my story is the same as Topaz - I also got my lorikeet from a pet store, while he is not tame it is like buying a normal cage bird from a pet store - not sure if you can do that in USA, can you? Like a budgie that you look at and not handle? Well, we have lots of birds like that here :) , tame birds are available but taming one yourself is half the fun i think! Anyway, hope you know what i mean - my story is just like Topaz's and it gives me trust that by working on Jye he will eventually do the same, whether it takes Jye years.

Good luck Topaz, were rooting for you and your bird :lol:

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Post by CatsChair » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:25 pm

Hey I have been to Hobart! Only met one other person who lived there (well, except when I was there of course). He was amazed I went down there on holiday. Tasmania is VERY cool
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Post by Elizabeth » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:32 pm

YAY, someone knows what Tasmania is!!!! :lol:

Thank You for saying Hobart is cool, I also agree. I have never been to the U.S. and would love to eventually, I'd love to go to Los Angeles especially - but also New York, Utah, Arizona.

So what state of USA would you say best equates/looks like Hobart??? Hobart is a cute place I have to say.

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Post by Elizabeth » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:51 pm

OOOOPS!

Sorry, you're Canadian; practically Aussie anyway! I've met lots of Canadians and you guys are so open minded and sooo fit in with Australians! COOL. 8)

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Sorry

Post by indy » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:02 pm

Yea mine indian ring neck took a while too and now i can get mine out of cage with out biting and if mine tries to fly and goes down i can pick up without biteing but when on top of cage i have to but a thick glove on or mine will bite my finger and hard too i have noticed that they seem to be very teritorial over there cages sometimes but once on my hand with glove mine is fine and i place mine on my shoulder and walk around hose with mine for a while every day and site on the couch with mine on my hand or shoulder and talk to mine and mine seems to be geting better maybe try a glove and see if you can hold it on the floor or couch for awhile.
We all love are indian ringnecks and we all agree there great birds.

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Post by Lauren » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:16 pm

Peanut: LOVE LOVE LOVE the pics! See all works out. Well done.

Elizebeth: Hobart is a 1 hour flight from here. Its the forgotten part of Australia. :( The lil island down the bottom.
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Post by Elizabeth » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:37 pm

Yep, sadly so :( I should know!

But we are totally Aussie, no doubts about it! I think Canadians are Aussie too, but Tassie is actually Australia, we talk the same, barbeque the same and no we don't have two heads.

Lets take over the forum with Aussies! (this is totally a joke, so please take no notice).

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Post by Mikaela » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:48 pm

I'd love nothing more. And that isnt a joke. :lol:

Americans arent always the most loving of peoples. :roll:

That can be said of all cultures though.
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Post by Elizabeth » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:17 pm

Mikaela, I have no worries with Americans at all :lol: I have never been coz i'm a student but I am intriqued with Hollywood and the stars, I also know that 'real' people live in US and I find 'you guys' very wonderful people!!!!

The two heads thing is a joke about the mainland of Autralia thinking Tassie people have two heads (are arrogant). It wasn't directed at any other country!

Having a wide range of different people on this board would be a great thing; all countries sharing their differences and likes. I think all Aussies would agree with me here. :lol:

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picking up?

Post by amber5683 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:33 pm

I had the same problem with my IRN Jewel when we got her, she never wanted to be touched or held, what I started to do was use both hands towards her at once, one on either side of her so that she could see both coming, with seeing both she knew that she was gonna get picked up one way or the other. The first couple of times she tried nipping at me, but after the third or fourth time she just started stepping up. I still have to do that to her sometimes but she is much more comfortable with being picked up now. Hope this helps.

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Post by Mattls » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:19 am

Sunni was 7 months old and in an aviary when we got her. First week she'd absolutely freak out if we went anywhere near her. After that I started getting her into the bathroom where I was the only familiar thing and training her with step-ups in there. 1 year later and I can extend her wings, put her on her back to give her belly scratches, give her kisses anywhere, etc.
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Post by Mikaela » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:26 am

Mattls wrote:Sunni was 7 months old and in an aviary when we got her. First week she'd absolutely freak out if we went anywhere near her. After that I started getting her into the bathroom where I was the only familiar thing and training her with step-ups in there. 1 year later and I can extend her wings, put her on her back to give her belly scratches, give her kisses anywhere, etc.


If you arent going to clip, which I would have already done... cant train a dog that just runs or a bird that just flees... easliy.

Its about confinement. Makes conforming easier for the bird and you.

So if you dont want to clip... this is an excellent way to get it done.

Good Job Matt. :)
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Bird crazy
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clicker training

Post by Bird crazy » Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:21 pm

Been systematically reading this book. As I have not gotten through it all and they recommend you read it through before you start training. But there is a chapter in the back of the book on training a frightened bird.

It's Getting Started Clicker Training for birds by Melinda Johnson, I purchased it online from the Birdie Boutique. It has a resource page on the back that lists www.geocities.com/birdtrain, or www.clickertraining.com

I haven't looked at these sites yet but just from reading the first 7 chapters of the book I think it's worth looking at for you.

Hope that helps :wink:
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GOING THROUGH THE SAME

Post by dreamypigtails » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:11 pm

I was just reading through everything here. I bought a pair of 3 1/2 year old IRN's from an auction 1 month ago and i am sure that they were just used for breeding by there previous owner and they both act the same as your bird when i try to get close to them though i have noticed that my female seems to be making progress my male not so much. I have been just sitting by there cage talking to them alot hoping that they get use to me being around before i try to handle them anymore . My female will let me get right next to her now and will even grabbed a grape out of my hand now but she does it so fast that it drops but it is a huge step forward as she use to just flutter away.As for my male he just goes crazy the closer i get to him. I have really gotten alot out of these forums and am going to try a bit of everything i get off of here. For anyone that has more then one bird was just woundering do you think I would have better luck if i was to seperate them?
Adam & Jamie with Mickey & Malori 3 1/2yrs old IRN's

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Post by TropicalAussie » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:24 pm

I would imagine that keeping them in separate cages would make it easier to tame them but I'm no expert. But at the same time, they may be very upset about being removed from each other, especially if they are a breeding pair.

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Post by *mia* » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:22 am

I haven´t been reading all the post in this topic, but thought that I would tell how I did whit Kalle.. When I got him was he an untamed 4 years old male. The first week, or two, I had him in his cage talking to him giving, him treats and showing him that I was not going to hurt him.

After a while I began to put my hand inside the cage and giving him treat from my hand inside the cage, at first didn´t he take them but after a while he did. By this time I felt that he should be allowed to come out and fly (he had not been aloud to do this in his previous home) so I made a stick of the same type as the one he had in his cage.

One day when I had allot of time I opened the cage and he came out after a couple of hours. Then I took the stick and told him to step up, and had a treat for him.. I had to tell him to do this many times before he did step up, but when he did he got the treat..

We did this a couple of weeks and shorten the stick for each day. After a while he put a foot on my hand and then we began to practice him to step up onto the hand that was holding the stick. When he had been able to sit on the hand as it hold the stick i tried to take the stick away as he sat on the hand, the first time he got scared and flied away but he learnt to stay..

After about 6-7 months he was stepping up every time I asked him (whitoute the stick) and I began to practice him to come flying to me on command.. Now he come flying to me almost evertime I ask him to..

I´m not able to give him scratches if he is not in his transport cage in the car or if he is taking a shower..


Maby you should do another training on your bird as it is clipped but this is the way I used on Kalle..

I hope you can understand most of what I have been writting as I think it can be difficult to write on english, but if it is something you wonder about just ask..

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Wow it really works!!

Post by dreamypigtails » Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:39 am

After reading this the other day what Mattls wrote really stuck in my mind.
So last night we took both birds in the bathroom and put a small amount of water in the tub and stayed with them and let them play in the water a bit we held onto the towel into the tub so that when they wanted out they had to come to us. And as planned the both crawled up the towel right up onto Adam's arm and sat there right next to him for a long time then we brought them out to their cage and because Mickey seemed alot more calm we let malori back to her cage and mickey stayed and for 1 hour he sat with Adam and he even stept up from a purch to Adams finger and crawled up his arm and sat on his sholder for a bit. So we have decided to try this every night cause that was the closest we ever got to them with out them freaking out. We felt he was going to be the harder one to tame so just really thought I would let you know how well that worked for us. And this morning woke up and they both seem very interested in me sitting on the edge of their cage looking at me. Thank You for the great advice!!! :D
Adam & Jamie with Mickey & Malori 3 1/2yrs old IRN's

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