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To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

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ErnieisAwesome
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To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by ErnieisAwesome » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:08 am

Ernie is just a baby . Somewhere between 6-8 weeks old I'm guessing . He has now flown towards my sliding glass door 2xs !! Luckily he lost his gusto before hitting the glass and really injuring himself !! I wasn't planning on having his wings clipped ever but now I'm scared and see that maybe it's important for his own safety . If I do decide to have him clipped , when is a suitable age ? I did read somewhere that you don't want to clip until they have taken off , flown and landed on their own .

sanjays mummi
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by sanjays mummi » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:34 am

Personally, as far as i'm concerned, clipping is mutilation. With bamboo blinds, or a voile curtain Ernie will not be fooled into thinking your window is an open exit. He may take longer to hand tame, but at least he will be approachable on his own terms, and in his own time.

ErnieisAwesome
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by ErnieisAwesome » Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:56 am

sanjays mummi wrote:Personally, as far as i'm concerned, clipping is mutilation. With bamboo blinds, or a voile curtain Ernie will not be fooled into thinking your window is an open exit. He may take longer to hand tame, but at least he will be approachable on his own terms, and in his own time.

Why would he take longer to hand tame of he has his wings ? He seems to be doing okay so far .
The ks for sharing your opinion. I know it's a touchy subject . I always said I never would .

SunniDai
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by SunniDai » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:10 am

Some people will argue for clipping while others will argue against clipping. It is a personal choice. When I got Oscar and Luna, they were clipped. I let them grow in and have left Oscar's. Luna, however, since she has become aggressive to the others, gets a light clipping. That way the others have the opportunity to get away from her. As you may have read my "Sunni went for an afternoon flight" posting, she is fully flighted. Oliver had a bad wing clip when he got here, and I'm hoping he gets them fully in.
The way I view it personally is that it's no more physically harmful to them than having their nails clipped, provided it is done correctly. Mentally, though, I can tell a difference in Sunni between when she had them clipped and when she became fully flighted. Like night and day. Luna is aggressive still but the difference is that she was almost viciously aggressive before she got a light clipping than now.
Was I clear on whether I support or oppose wing clipping? No? Good lol
~Dana

Image

ErnieisAwesome
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by ErnieisAwesome » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:42 am

Dana, Haha I think it was a little bit of both ! Lol

SunniDai
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by SunniDai » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:47 am

I guess in this matter I'm a tad bit of a fence sitter :lol:
~Dana

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Donovan
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by Donovan » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:17 pm

For the sake of your bird's mental well being and happiness don't clip its wings.

Then later you can do fun stuff like train it to fly to you, fetch, hide and seek through the house, and all kinds of other things.

My newest bird was clipped when I got him, poor little guy gets so beat up jumping from high places trying to fly. He's also aggressive toward my other bird because when he doesnt like something he has no option to fly away so he attacks instead.

If you Do have him clipped do a partial. This will allow him to control where he lands, able to take short flight with a slow descent.
Last edited by Donovan on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

clawnz
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by clawnz » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:19 pm

Clipping is a very Hot Potato!
Those who push clipping are adamant that it does no harm. Maybe they can grow new feathers, but what damage can it do for the birds mental state? And do they all get over this.
And then we have those who clip way too early and the birds are not allowed to fully fledge and due to this may never become confident flyers. So when they crash or fly into something the owner decides the only option is to clip again. Meaning the bird is going to be handicapped for the rest of its life.
There are very few good reasons to clip, but it should only be considered after ALL other actions have been tried and failed.
As for clipping (Handicapping) to train, I have no idea how anybody can defend this mistreatment of a flighted animal.
Clipping can bring in new dangers, where the people who clip will try to tell you it is to reduce dangers. It is not often a non clipped bird dies from keel bone damage, these are nearly all birds that are clipped.
If a hand tame bird gets out, It can fly away from danger, it may well fly down to owner or other birds in an aviary. Clipped most die.
A flighted bird that is allowed to fly around will be able to get a full cardiovascular workout. This is impossible if flighted is restricted. This alone is one reason to not clip.
Handicapping by clipping just a few primaries can lead to the bird crashing due to the effort it is putting into trying to fly and stay in the air.
Yes you can train a flighted bird and they do make super pets, it just takes more effort and more time. And right there is why a lot of people clip.

These are my own opinions and yes I am pro flighted. Funny enough that's what birds are designed to do. Fly.
Watching my flock fly around at will is a joy to behold. I have one Dexter that is non flighted and it hurts me seeing him have to beg when he wants to get somewhere.
And I feel there is nothing better than when a bird flys to you because it wants to. It does not have to pace back and forth waiting for you to help.
I love my flighted fids.

ErnieisAwesome
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by ErnieisAwesome » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:54 pm

What would you all say are the Pros & Cons of keeping a flighted bird ? I've read somewhere that birds that haven't been clipped are harder to tame ? Is this true ?

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Donovan
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by Donovan » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:57 pm

well.. if you tame a bird and his wings being clipped helped,.. then think of it as forced submission.... it can be psychologically damaging to the bird in the long run.. whereas it may yield short term results that seem positive, it's not necessarily a good thing.

the pros would be having a happier bird.. a bird willing and anxious to try new things..
a bird that will fly to you when you call it... play fetch.. play hide and seek around the house... also a bird who is more likely to get himself out of a jam.

another con would be having a bird who is also like to get Into a jam because he can't fly.

In any case.. watch your bird jump from a high place.. flapping like hell yet dropping like a rock.. It's not fun to see. It is the equivalent of having dog.. and then putting him in a tiny pen as far away from the house as possible, and leaving him there forever except to be fed.

Fetch
Not a how-to guide, just a few moments of the act itself captured, except for the last one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mEFLQdGwrs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlXg9FCiAXE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_syi5zxzw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVsU15l_078

Why spend money on an aviary.. when you can skip clipping their wings and let your whole house be the aviary! Granted you'll need to put paper or plastic down in a few key place ;)

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ellieelectrons
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:48 pm

Mine were clipped but have been fully flighted for a number of years now. I hope to never clip them again. Regarding glass doors, etc. your bird will learn not to fly into them but it can take time. You may want to try covering them with something until your bird learns that they can't fly through them.

We had a birdy tea party the other day - 6 IRNs converged on the one house. The youngest bird had been clipped by the breeder and the others were all fully-flighted. I felt a bit sorry for him because you could see he wanted to go places but couldn't unless someone picked him up.

Clipping may teach them to depend on you but it can also lead to aggression if your bird feels that it can't get away from you if you are doing something it doesn't want you to do. A clipped bird is also more likely to end up on the floor. Once I didn't see Janey there and kicked her across the room. I felt so bad!

There are pros and cons for both. If you do clip, I recommend a very light clip of both wings. Your bird needs to be able to fly downwards so that if they fall they can land smoothly and not hurt themselves.

I like what others have said too.

Take care.

Ellie.

Princess Yuz
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by Princess Yuz » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:30 am

This is a very debatable question due to the fact that so many people have different opinions. I think a parrot should have the right to fly around and have there wings however if they are injuring themselves by flying into doors and windows then I would give them a light clip so they can still fly but not very high or far.

clawnz
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by clawnz » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:54 pm

[quote I think a parrot should have the right to fly around and have there wings however if they are injuring themselves by flying into doors and windows then I would give them a light clip so they can still fly but not very high or far.[/quote]

The light clip may cause more trouble due to adding more handicapped flight control. Not a very good option.
If they are flying into things it will be for a reason and if possible it is a much better option to make the effort to find and fix the problem.
Either the bird is panicking, Just wants to get away from a given situation. This could be. related to wrong bird, wrong owner, wrong situation.
Or may never of made the brain connections needed to think on the wing. This happens when birds are clipped to early in life and were not allowed to fully fledge before being clipped. Hence bird takes off and then does not have the ability to make flight adjustments in flight.
And in this case with work maybe possible to be trained to relax and taught to fly safely. Lots of work from the care giver.

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Donovan
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Re: To clip or not to clip ..who's right ?

Post by Donovan » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:59 pm

Princess Yuz wrote:This is a very debatable question due to the fact that so many people have different opinions. I think a parrot should have the right to fly around and have there wings however if they are injuring themselves by flying into doors and windows then I would give them a light clip so they can still fly but not very high or far.
I have two birds... so far the only injuries i've seen are results of being clipped. Both were clipped when I bought them.

One exception would be the first bird. Whereas he's never flown into a mirror or window he did hit the ceiling fan once.. Oddly though, it was intentional on my part. He had been landing on the ceiling fan when it was turned off. It was becoming one of his favorite places to be. So to break him of it I turned it on... very slow. While trying to land on a moving blade he got a little thump and never tried again. Wasn't really an injury though.

My newer bird has had injury after injury due to being clipped. They're minor injuries and aren't a major issue, but it's enough that i've come to realize that he can have no freedom until he can do more than drop like a rock.

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