12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

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Blue Pako
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12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Hello,
I just got a 12 wk old IRN on Sunday. His wings are clipped so he basically falls if he tries to fly. I'm wondering if letting his feathers grow back fully is a good idea? In the meantime, he doesn't eat from his dishes inside the cage, and only sits on the high perch. He doesn't move around in his cage at all. I've had budgies before, and they were always exploring the cage even on the first day.

I set up a climbing station, perch, and food station on top of his cage (it's not a cage that opens up at the top). If I bring up the blind he can see out the window. He can see trees and plants, etc. I also have a corner of the cage covered in case it gets too sunny for him. He resists coming out of the cage, but once he is up there, he is happy, looks out the window, and eats from his dish, and drinks water.

He still hasn't chirped for anything other than when he is trying to get away from my hand (only inside). Outside he seems to be a little more tame. He let me kiss his neck and beak, breathe warm air on him. He turned his head while doing this so I would be hitting the back of this neck.

He won't fully accept treats from my hand. He will take a seed, break it open, and drop it. He will taste an apple or fruit from my hand, but not eat it. He will climb on me to get to the highest point. We were watching IRN videos on my tablet and he tapped the screen a bit.

I sprayed him with some warm water, which he seemed indifferent to, but afterwards he cleaned his feathers, and now he likes to be puffy and stand on one leg inside his cage. I take him out for about 20mins, 3 times a day. I made a 5' perch for him, and he does step-up quite good - but still won't accept treats. I had toys in the cage, but because he was not moving around, took them out the first night.

I'm hoping I'm doing the right things. For the experienced owners, please let me know how you got your bird comfortable with you, and what the timeline is like. :)

I'm really hoping he becomes playful and has lots of personality.

Thanks.
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MissK
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by MissK »

1) Does he eat at all, anywhere?
2) Please take a photo looking down into the food bowl(s) so we can see exactly what food is being offered.
3) Is he drinking?
4) Your setup does sound nice but I want photos - full room view so we can see the whole thing and what's around the cage.
5) Try mashing the fruit and offering it that way.
6) If he is not eating you need to get him help, possibly by taking him back to the breeder so the breeder can get him to eat.
-MissK
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

1) Does he eat at all, anywhere?
Yes, lots. He started eating and drinking LOTS today when I put small 4oz cups (tupperware - BPA free) on top of his cage where he likes to perch and look out the window. I tried putting those cups inside the cage, and lo and behold he ate out of them while inside the cage. So at least that problem is solved. I guess he doesn't like the cups from the pet shop. He seems to eating only the sunflower seeds from his Zupreem pellet mix. So I guess the next step is to pick those out? I also added a few pecans, brazil nuts, almonds, but he didn't touch them.
He also likes egg yolk, apple, blueberries and grapes. He managed to eat some blueberry from my hand yesterday. I kind of kept touching his beak with it so he would eat.

2) Please take a photo looking down into the food bowl(s) so we can see exactly what food is being offered.
Photo attached

3) Is he drinking? Now yes, since the smaller cups are inside.

4) Your setup does sound nice but I want photos - full room view so we can see the whole thing and what's around the cage.
I have lots of toys for him, but he shies away from them. Doesn't like them at all yet. So what you see is basically he bare necessities. I plan on adding a bowl so he can take a bath up there too.

5) Try mashing the fruit and offering it that way.
Ok. I'll try this. Besides fruit seeds (apple etc.) are there any concerns with feeding him fruits?

6) If he is not eating you need to get him help, possibly by taking him back to the breeder so the breeder can get him to eat.
Looks like I won't have to work about this. But he still won't readily accept food from my hand. Maybe separating the sunflower seed will encourage him, when I use it as a treat.
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Donovan
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Donovan »

Blue Paco wrote: Ok. I'll try this. Besides fruit seeds (apple etc.) are there any concerns with feeding him fruits?

6) If he is not eating you need to get him help, possibly by taking him back to the breeder so the breeder can get him to eat.
Looks like I won't have to work about this. But he still won't readily accept food from my hand. Maybe separating the sunflower seed will encourage him, when I use it as a treat.

Go to this forum link to view safe foods, and Note that avocado is extremely toxic, as well as chocolate, tobacco, and alcohol. http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... f=3&t=8078

As far as getting him to take treats from your hand... well.. eventually he's going to relax there at your place.. his new environment.
When he does you'll learn a food or two that drive him nuts to get.. use that to encourage him. Hold the treat to him without speaking to him or trying to get him to take it... keep it a few inches away and just never move.. keep doing this every day until eventually he works up the nerve to check out the food... eventually he will take it..

or you could give him little pieces of it.. tiny tiny little bites.. one at a time in his bowl. He'll come to anticipate the next bite so much that he will eventually just take it from you before you have a chance to drop it in the bowl. Little things like this are some of the first baby steps towards taming your bird. Or at the very least.. -training-
SunniDai
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by SunniDai »

You asked "...are there any concerns with feeding him fruits?" You can find any concerns in the topic that Donovan mentioned. If I might add my two cents, fruits are generally higher in sugars. It's best that the majority of his diet come from veggies.
Dana
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Donovan
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Donovan »

Mine loves broccoli, cauliflower, radish and a few other things. Figure out what your bird likes
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Excellent! Thanks for the tips everyone. I opened his cage door this morning and left him alone. He froze for a couple of minutes, but now has resumed normal activities... eating. lol

I also bought him some Applewood yesterday. I stuck a big chunk of apple through the side of his cage and he has been eating pieces of it as well.
SunniDai
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by SunniDai »

Mine love plain old lettuce, doesn't matter what kind, chickpeas, peas in the pods (have to be in the pods or they won't touch them :lol: ), broccoli and cucumbers. Trying different ways with carrots. Meh...they could take em or leave em. Tomatoes? Depends on the day of the week apparently. Always try them though. Okra? Not fans. It's fun trying new things with them. And with four birds, nobody likes the same thing at the same time.
Dana
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MissK
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by MissK »

HI. I'm glad he's eating. I note your food mix is predominantly pellets with sunflower seeds. Personally, I would pull out those seeds and offer a different seed mix. Some people offer seed and pellet on alternating days. Another strategy is to offer a small amount of seed so he needs to eat the pellets to complete the meal. Do some research and find your way. I don't have that high of an opinion of pellet food, but my bird does eat them as part of my ongoing effort to maintain him in an adoptable state. However, if you pull out the sunflower seeds from his regular meal, they will be a good candidate for hand feeding.

Regarding fruit - I think the main danger is that he may realize fruit is really yummy and become a picky eater, desiring fruit mostly. Fruit's nice, but he needs his other foods too and he should not just live on fruit.

About the cage - I realize you don't have toys in there because he is scared. I realize you have a towel covering part of the cage to protect from overheating. These actions show forethought and compassion, nice. However, that looking right out the widow has two sides - one, he gets entertainment of looking out, but two, he cannot get away from anything frightening he may see out there (and it could literally be *anything*, not necessarily a potential threat, that scares him. I think you should try closing those blinds for a few days and see if it helps at all.

Perches - Yes, he can stand on what you have there, but I suggest some slightly more mainstream perches too. The wood perch is much too fat for him as a main perch. The bungee is fine, but it should not be his only option. Check out some of those bolt-on perches made of real wood with the bark still on. Avoid the smooth manzanita ones as they are very hard and slippery, too. If you have access to clean (not treated with anything, not growing near a source of pollution like a busy street) wood of a bird-safe species (Google) then you can make your own perches.

I actually cut my fig (edible for humans fig) and make perches from that. Fig wood is easy to use, but becomes very brittle as it dries, so not perfect for craft use. Butterfly Bush (Buddleia) is an alternative. I also use hardy Kiwi and Grape vines. I use the bolt-on fir perches for the main structure of the cage and then add in whatever I make on my own . It seems to work well for us. Some of the advantages to using this natural material are that it varies in diameter and the bird gets good foot exercise, it gets away from the strictly horizontal plane, it's more interesting for everybody, it's fine for chewing, it's free, etc.

Your cage looks to me an entry level size. I would not ever go smaller except for travel in the car or sleeping.

About playing on top the cage - this is a great idea. I also use the tops of cages for play area. You can check out those bolt-on perches for something the branches and attach it to the top, pointing up or out. You could, for this, maybe get a manzanita stick since they have branches, but I would rough it up with some sandpaper for traction. They also make a bendable rope perch with an attachment at both ends, and you could use that.
-MissK
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Great advice. Thank you! I really appreciate it. When can I expect him to start making some noises? He's pretty quiet. Even in the mornings. When are their normal bedtimes, and wake ups? This guy seems to like to sleep until we get up around 9am
sanjays mummi
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by sanjays mummi »

The cage looks to be about the same size Sanjays nursery cage was, he ignored toys for a long time, his favourite toy now is a stainless steel cylindrical bell, which he rings for service. Sanjay took a few days to settle in, he sat on a perch, mute, like a little statue, he didn't eat either, but drank. So all sounds completely normal behaviour for a little dicky bird in a strange environment.
Donovan
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Donovan »

My first bird was 6 months old when I got him and he was singing and chirping within a few minutes of bringing him home. Wasexcited for food and toys and stimulation Iimmediately.

My newest bird that I recently got is close to 4 months. He doesn't really make a lot chitter chatter but he's got a little roar when he gets excited. He also loved food and toys from day 1.

I think your bird is just still unsure about things. I would guess that he'll slowly come around bit by bit.

As for toys, well he has to find it interesting and boredom will drive his curiosity eventually.
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Is it okay that I've been basically making him come out of the cage to play, sit on the top, etc? He's not going to hold a grudge against me or anything is he? The breeder said I should try to interact with him a few times a day to get him to trust me. When i had a budgie, I let him do his own thing for a day or two and he eventually came to me - but he was already chirping, ringing bells etc. on his first or second day (this was over 10 years ago).

I also built a training perch that he is happy to sit on, especially if the cage is out of site. He won't accept treats from my hand yet, so I didn't think there was any point in attempting to start him with anything other than set up, which he seems to do well.

I've separated sesame seeds from his dish. He was eating something. In another dish I put some mixed raw nuts, to see if he will eat from that. He sits in the highest point of the cage. I moved the dish he wouldn't eat from, to the higher section, and now he eats out of that too. Should I move his perches lower to encourage him to explore his cage, and be closer to the door?
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Pinched some romaine lettuce to the side of his cage and he loves it! Thanks for that.
Bought some cauliflower. Will try that later too. I've decided I won't try to get him out of the cage anymore and just leave th door open when I'm home, and let him venture out himself. Window blinds are also closed since this morning.
Donovan
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Donovan »

You're on the right track.
Anything your bird does, he should believe was his own idea.

That helps make most of his experiences positive.
MissK
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by MissK »

Depends on what method you were using to "make" him come out....

Just don't compel him to do anything physically. If he is uncomfortable being included in some action, such as being forced to step up, or being handled against his wish, or herded around, that is the kind of thing he is going to hold against you, so to speak. The better tactic is to lure him to places you want him to go, to prevent access to places you don't want him to go, and to respect him at all times. Since he now knows about the roof, so long as the door is open he will have the option and means to go there if he wants.

Of course, if he gets sunflower seeds only directly from you, and you put a bunch in a dish and place the dish somewhere, you are manipulating him for sure, but it is not a physical thing and he isn't going to hold any bad association because you made him go to whatever place in order to get sunflower seeds. He had the choice. It is always best if there is a choice, even if the choice is "take it or leave it" --* exception to this is anything where he could make a choice that would endanger him, such as "eat this or starve". Don't do that! Always stick to appropriate choices like "play first or eat first?", "food high or food low?", "stay home or eat sunflower seeds on the roof?", "chew toy or foot toy?", etc.

About moving his dish - I would want to see him eating reliably before monkeying with the food supply. Of course, you can always have that lower dish filled with the more desirable foods. If it is easy to move the dishes, you might be able to move the high dish lower in small increments over time. You would have to monitor it closely, because if you moved the dish too far too fast, he could starve. NB: the lower the dish, the more chance poop will land on it.

To encourage movement around the cage you should supply a means and a motive. Place a new perch somewhere and tie a spray of millet onto it, with two ties so it doesn't shift much. I use clean, untreated, unbleached jute for nearly all my ties. Not sure if he is too young or not, but if you take a clean (no salt, not roasted, etc) almond in the shell and smack it with something to start a crack, you can drop it in his food dish and let him explore it. It's a toy with its own reward inside, and an introduction to foraging. Once he gets it, you can put an almond anywhere you want him to go.

Choose the more vegetable type leaves for him, the kale, collards, limited spinach or chard, fresh, clean dandelion leaves. Lettuces tend to have more water and less nutrition, though I suspect the "spring mix" types are probably better.

By all means place a perch where it will be easy for you to reach in the door and let him step up or pass him food (eventually). It will also make it easier for him to get in and out of the cage on his own, at least to start. On the other end, it may make putting him back into he cage easier, too. Before my bird would let me place him in and out of the cage, such a perch was invaluable. Currently, it is the perch I get him from and return him to. Some birds seem to get a little ruffled by transitioning in and out of the cage, so make it as easy on him as possible.

Just to give you a little bit of unsolicited perspective, typing this post for you reminds me that my bird was not always as easy to guide and handle as he is today. I'm betting he is not as easy to guide and handle today as he will be in the future. Once, he would not take food. Once, he fled from me. Once, he would not step up. Once, he would not stay on the wrist while I moved. Once, he would not fly to me. Once, he would not let me place him in the cage. Once, he would not step up and let me lift him from the cage. He learned to do all these things during the past two years with me. I know what people think, "Two Whole Years for that??", but other people think "All that in just two years!"..... I'm sure you will be looking back in not so long from now, making note of what your bird has learned in his time with you. Don't think about it, don't count the days, but one day you will have this experience. I promise it's worth it.
-MissK
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Progress!

I moved his cage a little bit away from the window so the back of it is against the wall. Now while I sit on the sofa, his high door faces me. It's always open when I'm home, so he can clearly see me sitting down to eat or working on my laptop. I was doing some whistling to him, and he started chirping at me :) And he stopped, I did it again, he answered. We kept it up for a minute.

about 1/2 hour later I did it again, and he answered me again. So he starting to come out of his shell. I also lowered his higher perch, specifically to line up with this upper door. I put up a rope swing, and a set of chimes that hang from a small conure-like figurine. Because his perch his lower, he now takes a break from eating and walks and climbs around the upper cage.

I gave him some Bok Choy.. he loved it. and two carrot sticks which he held in his foot and gnawed on. It's great to see him unafraid now. :)

Just now as I'm typing this, he is poking his head out the door to see what I have in the cups hanging outside the door (sunflower seeds and water). So he's definitely making progress. Now that I know he is perfectly normal, lol, I will let him come to me and let him approach me on his own time.
sanjays mummi
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by sanjays mummi »

To quote the bard, "all's well that ends well", very pleased for you.
MissK
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by MissK »

Yep. Great news!
-MissK
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

He seems to be progressing pretty fast already. Today he climbed out by himself to explore. He went to the top of this cage. Played with the windmill, chirped, and he is now eating treats from my hand. He loves hot peppers. My friend says his African Grey eats them all the time. I gave him a bit, and just thought I would check in to see if it's okay for him to be eating the seeds.

Setting up rope ladders and swings now.
Donovan
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Donovan »

yes the seeds are fine.. probably have a little protein in them too
AJPeter
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by AJPeter »

Glad you moved the cage against a wall this will help him feel secure, but let him see out of the window, about turning his head when you want to kiss him when l try that with my Alex hen l get the impression she is saying "Boy! Do you have bad breath!" So l clean my teeth with peppermint toothpaste and try agaiin and she even gives me a kiss back!
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Thumbs up for this forum. It's really the only one I trust. As a side note for his health, other than any sign he would be sick, so you take your birds to vets for checkups or anything?
AJPeter
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by AJPeter »

Personally no, l took Bille to the vet becasue l thought she was egg bound it cost £75 just for the consultation fee and the vet said Billie (My Alexandrine hen was under weight at 257 grams!) Alex are bigger than IRN, they aslo said she had a nurmur which might have been foot and mouth or something like Beak,feather,foot so l had to take her back for test which proved negative but cost another £75.

I tried to arrange insurance but they wanted £250 the first year and would pay no claims for a year, high way robbery!
Sanjay's muumi suggested having a savings account to pay vet bills.

Other people may have different views.
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

I was never one to invest in insurance either.
I think it's a much better idea to save $100/month, in a tax free savings account, and if he has an emergency I can still use it without being taxed.

Observation: every time I use the vacuum cleaner, he chirps, but he doesn't seem afraid.
MissK
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by MissK »

I'm fairly conservative about the vet, myself. Rocky was the first parrot in this house. Lynnie is the most recent. I took Rocky and Lynnie to the vet as soon as I got them for a general evaluation. I had Lynnie tested for dangerous disease because s/he seems not able to tolerate isolation and I already had several parrots by that point. I got my Budgies from the pet store as youngsters. They had already been through 30 days quarantine there, and I pulled the sneaky trick of taking them back and telling the store they were not well, so they got vetted there individually, no cost to me. :wink:

Since then, I took Rocky back for an evaluation after he had been with me for one year, and got a bunch of testing done to evaluate his internal condition. I didn't get that done when I first got him, because it didn't make sense to me to evaluate his past situation. It would do me no good to learn his previous family fed him poorly and gave him no exercise. I already knew that! It made more sense to get feedback on how I kept him, because I would be in a position to change or improve his situation here if it was warranted. There was only one very slight item of interest in his test results, which could have been explained by the fast prior to testing, and I did not follow up on it.

I have taken my birds in when there seemed to be a reason, even if there really wasn't that much wrong. I took one of the Budgies in just because she sat sleepy and fluffed at different times from the rest of the flock. The vet found she was perfectly fine. There was some wrong bacteria in the poop, and I was pressing the vet to find something wrong with her that we could address, so she ended up on medication for this bacteria that might but probably didn't cause any problem. I think the Budgie was just testing me to prove my commitment to her. :lol:

Still, with my pets I love so much, if there is any question I would rather "waste" some money for the vet to tell me they are just jerking my chain than to take a chance and fail to address a real problem in its infancy.
-MissK
AJPeter
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by AJPeter »

Yes it must be hard to work out whether the cost justifies the means, and sometimes we need reassurance when l thought Billie was eggbound l took her to the vets but there was no need as she wasn't. This is why our forum is so valuble allaying fears. To find out she was bluffing all allong, I could ring her ...well enough said.

I think Blue Paco that your bird would be more afraid if you waved the nozzle at him, my bird is in unphased with the hair drier what she enjoys is the stream of hot air ruffling her feathers.
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

I thought Teflon was in hair dryers? I have a heating pad that I turn on next to the cage if he wants to get warm after a bath/spray
MissK
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by MissK »

I believe Teflon is just a brand name for the particular substance. Apparently it can be found in hair dryers, heaters, and other home machines that get hot, as well as those pots and pans.
-MissK
AJPeter
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by AJPeter »

So beware of hair driers!
Blue Pako
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Blue Pako »

Interesting find today. After feeding Pako a jalapeño he must have gotten the heat on his face or he actually felt hot after eating it, because he started dunking his head in the water dish. I brought over a big bowl of water and he actually took a bath. I was amazed. He didn't touch the pepper after that. Lol. I had to spray him with water until this in order to get him wet.

I also built him a 6' ladder that can hook into the top of his cage and extend horizontally, like a plank. He loves it. He also climbed down his side ladder to get some sunflower seeds on the arm of the sofa.

Aside from his 'skwak' he seems to be doing a small vocalization - like he is trying to say his name or 'I don't know'. Is this possible at 12 weeks?
Donovan
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by Donovan »

oddly enough I believe they are immune to the spicy element in hot peppers... not sure how that's possible... peppers must seem sweet to them.
He was just ready for a bath...

try giving him a shower.. luke warm water.. he might love that.
sanjays mummi
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by sanjays mummi »

I agree, Sanjay likes Scotch Bonnet and chillies. Scotch Bonnet will blow our heads off, they are so hot. On a daily basis he gets pointy peppers and bell peppers, it's the seeds he forages for. Jalapeno are ok, but he doesn't seem to rate them as highly. Here in the UK, vets seem to charge what they like, their costs vary from place to place, Vets 4 Pets, based at a store called Pets at Home, seem to be the most reasonable, a friend had her cat spayed there, and the total cost was just £55. Not bad for invasive surgery involving general anaesthetic.
AJPeter
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Re: 12 weeks old, Not eating inside cage

Post by AJPeter »

We have a Pets at Home store next to Wilko at Perry Barr but l did not know they had vets.

I go to Manor Vets at Hagley Rd who seem to be very good.

Billie will not eat peppers fresh or dried, in fact she won't any dried fruit, oh yes she does not like banana! Fussy bird.
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