New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

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minikid12345
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New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Hi, I've recently bought an IRN and I've had it in its cage for 2days now, it's 16weeks old and wasn't previously hand reared(Straight from an aviary). At times he's okay, just sits there on his perches or playing with his toys, but all of a sudden he's gone a bit nuts. He's trying to get out of his cage like there's no tomorrow and keeps throwing his food out of his bowl and he's hardly touched his water. Is this normal? Any help would be so massively apriciated, aswell as any tips for future care, thanks!
AJPeter
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

Welcome Lots of advice here, perhaps it is a bad hair day. Settling in nerves.
Donovan
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Donovan »

Probably needs time to settle is all.. he's not happy with the move.. he will be later.

and don't worry about the water, they don't actually drink that much.
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Cheers, how long did it take for anyone's birds to start accepting treats and stepping up aswell by the way? Is there a 'best method' to do this aswell? Thanks
InTheAir
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by InTheAir »

how long did it take for anyone's birds to start accepting treats and stepping up aswell by the way? Is there a 'best method' to do this aswell? Thanks
It depends on how nervous the bird is in the first place and how good you are at communicating with it in a way that puts it at ease.
I think this is the best method http://learningparrots.com/blog/trainin ... l-parrots/
My aviary raised girl took a few days to come take treats from my hand using this method.
Donovan
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Donovan »

hold a treat through the cage while ignoring the bird... it may take 5 minutes or it may take a month,.. but the bird will eventually take the food from you.. the main thing is that you're not crowding him or staring him down or talking to him. Let him think he's stealing it from you.

Continue this.. then when he's used to it you can continue while he's out of the cage.. if you adjust the distance he has to come to you to retrieve the treat you can eventual fade this in to stepping up and even flying to you through gradually increasing the distance.

As far as stepping up without all that work I don't know. Just stick your finger under his chest and push up a little. My bird stepped up for me after a few days. People say it's best to train them if they're fully flighted but i really disagree. Early training is best if they can't run away. There are things they're not comfortable with .. they need to learn that those things are okay.. and they need to learn it fast while they're young. People call it flooding, i call it tough love :P
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

Just chiming in to point out that my mature bird came to me on the less tame/less comfortable side. Not only would he not step up, he would retreat from the hand. Once he got more comfortable he would make a *show* of aggression when the hand came too close. I really screwed up and handled him a lot over several days so I could house him in the cooler part of the house when the AC went out. This had a very detrimental effect, causing him to actually attack the hand and increasing his fear/discomfort to a worse point than it was when I first got him. If ever I put my hand to him to press for a step-up, I got attacked and he fled. I would not corner him.

I tried enticing him with food to step onto or even just over my finger. I feel confident this would have worked, but I was too big a wimp to take the testing bites and blocking was not appropriate in this circumstance. I stopped trying.

Nevertheless, just six months later than the unfortunate handling when the AC was out, Rocky stepped onto my wrist all by himself, of his own idea and accord, much to my surprise and delight, while I was servicing his cage. How did this amazing change take place? Rocky watched another bird learn to step up. It was a Budgie I got young and clipped, and forced it, by pressing my finger to it's stomach, to step up regardless of it's wishes.

Today Rocky will fly to me and land on my wrist for food. In the cage he will step up for a treat. Out of the cage he will step up most times simply from being offered the wrist unless he's got a better idea in mind. And that force-trained Budgie? Now with real wings flies away from me unless the cage is so small she has no place to go.

How would you interpret this little history?
-MissK
InTheAir
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by InTheAir »

Missk just illustrated the point I am trying to make perfectly. I seem to recall a very similar story in regards to a bird being patted too...

There are many different methods of training, I guess it comes down to your patience, philosophy and, to a certain extent, your ability to assess your approach and modify it when necessary.

I recommend force free training using positive reinforcement because you can't really do any damage to your relationship with the bird. When you have built a trusting bond your bird it will be quick to accept other things and ideas you introduce.
There is no limit to what you can teach your bird over time by giving them incentive and the choice to participate.

Any method that your bird will fly away from if he is given the choice will not lead to the best possible relationship. It will restrict what you can do with your bird when the bird is given the choice (ie: left flighted).

There is no need to push on the birds tummy to encourage it to step up, placing your hand on the edge of a perch and using a lure is just as effective. Check out my YouTube channel for some ideas on what can be achieved using positive reinforcement
https://www.youtube.com/user/ClaireInTheAir
I recommend http://www.goodbirdinc.com for learning about training, she makes everything so clear and concise.
Little Buttercup
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Little Buttercup »

Hi and welcome. Is it possible that your cage is too small so he goes nuts when he wants to fly around but there is not enough space? He came from an aviary so is used to a large space. Whats the size of the cage?

Ash
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

Ash raises a fine point. We had, recently, on the forum a person who had been sold a cage much too small for his Ringneck. He had placed the cage low, and in a vulnerable location. Once he posted a photo of the situation, he was able to get some advice how to improve it. With the housing improvements, he found some positive response from his bird very quickly.

Once you have made ten posts, you should be able to put up a photo of your cage as it is in the house. We can all have a look and see if there is anything obvious that a Ringneck might not be happy with.

Another thought I'm having is that when we bring an animal into the home, very often it will be quite conservative at the beginning as it assesses the new surroundings. Once it has gotten to know the place and gotten over the shock of being moved to a new house, it may show more of it's true personality and habits. Think about when you take a new job - you're naturally conservative and watchful until you relax a little. Then your real personality can come out. It may be your bird was just laying low those first few days and now is being more natural.

I would like to add that what you've got there is a wild animal. Even those which have been hand raised are not domesticated animals. Domestication guides the development of a species, taking advantage of those individuals who demonstrate tendencies that work well in captivity and excluding those who do not. It is my understanding that parrot breeders do not, in general practice as a group, focus on breeding only individuals with traits that make living in captivity easier. In fact, it has been suggested that the opposite is true - that not only are parrots selected for breeding based on physical attributes alone, but also that pet parrots who are poorly suited for life in captivity tend to be channeled into breeding situations. This practice would seem to me in direct opposition to domestication, actually guiding the development of the species to be *less* suited to living in captivity.

It is my hope that these remarks will help you to better understand your bird, and why it may not be doing what you think it should be doing as quickly as you expect. Parrots, especially IRNs, are smart and teachable. However, in order to get them to do an unnatural thing, such as live in a cage in your house happily, you must teach and guide them in a way that is meaningful to them. With dogs, they say you buy the dog the puppy will one day be. With birds, however, you buy the bird you buy, nothing more. Every bird has potential, but that potential will not be realized in every bird.

I wish you, truly, every success with your wonderful new bird. The SEARCH function here is very helpful. You can use it to read how others have handled taming, and how various problems that may arise have been dealt with.
-MissK
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Thank Youu all SO much for the great replies and hopefully my lil' Kiwi and I will have a great relationship! With regards to the cage size, it's about 25" x 36" x 36", is that size okay?
Donovan
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Donovan »

it's a fine size.. be sure he/she is out of it as much as possible
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Donovan wrote: be sure he/she is out of it as much as possible
Even though he isn't "Tamed" whatsoever?
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

Mini, as long as he will go back home for his food, you can have him out. Bird-proof the area, of course, and leave plenty of time for getting him back (like all day) until you have a feel for what to expect from him.

If you let him out an hour before he would normally get breakfast and then serve breakfast in the cage, he should go back in. He's not reading this, of course, so there may be some delays. Make sure he understands about how you put food in a bowl and he then gets to eat it. Then when he sees you put a bowl of food in the cage he'll know the score. You place it in there and then step back so you don't scare him from going by you to the cage. Then step up, add a super-duper treat inside the cage, and close him in there.

Do it again next day.
-MissK
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Okay, so Kiwi's been out of his cage for the first time ever and it went great (I think!) He stayed high, which I assume is normal? And flew about for a bit, made a few squeaks, then went back into his cage when it was food time!:D still trying to work on him taking slices of Apple from me, hopefully he'll get there! Thanks for all the help!
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

Sounds like a great outting. I have set a large branch on top of my cages so Rocky can be up high, which all birds love, and also be somewhat contained, in that he stays mainly on or above his cage and the Budgie cage. Bird cages eat up a good bit of my floor plan, so I'm happy to have his play area essentially not taking up any more space. I mean, I had no plans for that chunk of air anyway!

Some birds get territorial about their cages, and some include the exterior of their cage as part of that territory. My bird is pretty chill about it most of the time, except in the deepest hormonal time. If your bird is also relaxed about the cage, you can encourage him to play on the cage as he would otherwise do on a stand. He could go in, come out, at will. This might make going back in less of an exceptional situation. If it happens frequently, it's no biggie. That's the theory, anyway. If your cage has a flat top, you may be able to set up a play area there and save a bit of your floor space as well!
-MissK
Little Buttercup
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Little Buttercup »

So nice to hear he had a nice time out. And went back in nicely. That cage don't have enough space for him to fly around. Good luck

Ash
AJPeter
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

Funny you should say that missK during Billie's hormonal attacks she was as passive as a lamb l could put my hand into her cage and she would not blink an eye lid, but now she is out of all that hormone stuff, if l put my hand any near the inside of her cage she charges with her beak open ready to bite the intruder to death if need be!

Which just shows how different our birds are. I once spent 4 hours trying to get Billie back into her cage, no amount of shouting "Get back into you bloody cage" worked so l just gave up and let her go back when she was ready. Now she second guesses when l want her to go back and just to show me she is the boss wil take her time about it!
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

Yes, but Billie *wanted* you to touch her. She was all ""ooooh, AJ, pet me!". Rocky has his girlfriend in the next cage, so he is more like "Hey! I've got things to do here! Get out!"

I love how every bird is different. Actually, I'm quite pleased to say that vaguely recently (could have been December) Rocky and I came to an understanding of how I might pass him into the cage on my wrist and he would let me. No surprise, it had to do with careful presentation of a treat. :lol:
-MissK
Little Buttercup
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Little Buttercup »

I used to use Coco as a lure to get Kiwi into the cage. Before going in I would hand feed him till he is full so putting a treat in the cage would'nt have any effect. I even taught him how to fly around a corner and get into my bedroom while holding Coco in my hands. Seems like he was prepared to do anything as long as Coco is involved. And he made a few tries to sit on my shoulder even, if I put Coco there. That was just a few days before he went missing.

Ash
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

On the other hand if l am in a hurry and Billie wants to moon about I ask her to step up from the top of the cage and she usually gets a kiss from me and then l put her on my hand into the cage through the door and she steps onto a perch. But no reward, well no treat reward all Billie gets is "Well done!"

Memories Ash, will be painful for some time. But do not blame yourself for Kiwi's flight it is the natural instinct of all birds to do a runner when ever the opportunty is there despite all the loving they have had and inter-reaction with their owners.
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Hi guys, lil' update: My lil' buddy's doing okay, just still struggling to get him to take a treat from my fingers :$ Also, I've been told a number of things which I could do with some clarification on:

1 - Is it best to cover the birds cage with something during the night/bedtime

2 - Is it best to use a white glove when I'm hoping that he'll land on my hand after a fly about or whilst I'm trying to get him to take food from me?

3 - I've been told that leaving them in silence (For example when I'm in college/out isn't too good an idea and ideally I should play some music or something?

Answers/thoughts/replies to any or all would be amazing, thanks!
Donovan
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Donovan »

I leave the tv on for my bird while I'm at work. Some will say that it's too much stimulation and that a timer is good. I don't have a timer but I do know my bird can snooze and relax when he wants even if the tv is on. I leave the tv on children's programming. Lots of high voices and colors and singing. I don't know if he prefers that or the news, but kid shows is what he gets.

It's probably good to cover the bird when it's bed time. Something about covering them up is like an instant sedative. I do it, but to be honest I'm not sure why it really matters.

As for the glove I wouldn't do it. I tried it with my bird early on and he didn't like it at all. It made him anxious so i gave up on that idea pretty quick. But the flip side to that is if he associates you putting on a glove with getting his favorite treat he might get happy to see you putting it on. But really i don't see the point in a glove.
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

A cover could provide a cue that it's sleep time, though it probably won't block light, really. It *will* block some draft, if there is any, so I will endorse the cover as long as it doesn't upset the bird and you can be sure to remove it early in the morning.

I'd say "why bother" on the glove. Later in life, are you going to want to have to go put on a glove to handle your bird? What if it's in the wash at that moment? I guess the only way I could endorse the glove is if it made a big positive difference to the bird right out of the box.

I do agree that leaving the bird home in dead silence is undesirable. In the wild, they say, there is only silence when a predator is about and all the animals keep quiet so it won't find them! That could make any animal uneasy! At the same time, birds nap during the day. Again, they are never in total silence, so a little noise should not be a crime. But, jungle noises are really nothing like channel 11 or whatever. I go back and forth like that and the solution I think I would recommend is a noisemaker (tv/stereo/whatever) on a timer, not intrusively loud, in another room. It would be ambient noise without getting all up in anybody's face. You can observe your bird's natural nap schedule and set the noise to cut off a little before and come back a little after. You can also use it to make sure he's up and active before you get home, so your coming home will be less of an intense experience for him. I could endorse that.
-MissK
InTheAir
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by InTheAir »

If it's audio only, like a radio, I'm fairly convinced it won't affect the daytime naps. My guys just settled down for a nap to the sweet sounds of me vacuuming the house whilst listening to loud dance music. They also come nap next to me when I'm using my very loud sewing machine.
When my friends birds come to stay they slot right in and fly over to nap near the stereo (read: 400 watt PA) when it is on. My boyfriend has a cute video of them napping near it, and when we turned it down they all moved closer to the speakers.
Just for the record, you know you're hot stuff on our living room dance floor when a parrot wakes up to wolf whistle at you. :wink:

I'm not sure about tv though, we don't have it on often. Nature docos may not be a good idea!

At night, Sapphire especially, needs it to be quiet and dark even with a thick cover on her cage. Nila seems to sleep like a log for 12 hours, no matter what is going on. Woe betide anyone who wants to wake him early!
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Hi, back to the original topic, my birds still going a bit crazy with climbing around and biting the cage after 2weeks of having him..... Any reasons for this?
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

My opinion is that you have taken a bird from a large enclosure and trapped him in a very small one. He is trying to get out. You are lucky he isn't also screaming his head off.
-MissK
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Anything I can do to help the situation?
AJPeter
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

Buy a bigger cage. But biting a cage is not a problem they all do it, it like lifting weights in a gym. What would be a worry is wing flapping insde the cage
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

I have to agree with AJ. It's not unreasonable that the bird objects to being trapped in a smaller cage. How would you feel if suddenly someone made you live in a bathroom?

However, since you cannot be the first to experience this, perhaps someone else will happen by with a plan for you. I imagine it will include plenty of time at liberty and plenty of enrichment.
-MissK
Little Buttercup
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by Little Buttercup »

Maybe some more out of cage time, if thats possible for you. Or a bigger cage. So that he can stretch his wings.

Above you will see Donovan said its a fine size but make sure he is out of that cage as much as possible. So it shows that size is not good for the bird to stay in most of the time.

Ash
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

Little Buttercup wrote:

Above you will see Donovan said its a fine size but make sure he is out of that cage as much as possible.

Ash
Donovan?
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

Scroll way up. Donovan said "it's a fine size.. be sure he/she is out of it as much as possible".
-MissK
AJPeter
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

Lol l thought it was Donovan that should be out of the cage as much as possible :o
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

He did. He said both of those things, at the same time.

Wipe off your glasses, AJ!
-MissK
AJPeter
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

You win MissK, intersting that l have not admitted wearing spectacles but l do, well spotted MissK.
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Update:
Everything's going okay (I think) with me and my feathered friend, bar a few things, he has chewed the neck out of his food bowl on the one side and his tail feathers seem to have gotten shorter.... And finally, how do I get him to stop pooping everywhere in my room and only in his cage? Thanks
AJPeter
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

You scold him when he poops in the wrong place and you reward him when he poops where you want. It is a good idea to put newspapers down where he poops most often. Billie always goes back to her cage to poop.
InTheAir
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by InTheAir »

AJPeter wrote:You scold him when he poops in the wrong place and you reward him when he poops where you want. It is a good idea to put newspapers down where he poops most often. Billie always goes back to her cage to poop.
Don't scold him ever for pooping anyway. That will make it worse not better.

It's probably best to search on Google for how to toilet train a parrot.
Basically, you need to put him in the right place just before he needs to go.
AJPeter
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by AJPeter »

Thanks for the advice, but it is a bit like shutting the door after the horse has bolted, Billie poops from either the top of her cage (onto my carpet) or inside from one of her perches. When she pooped on the back of my chair l told her "No!" once and ever after she has never pooped there again. However my rewards are words spoken kindly.
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Update: Kiwi's doing great, still flying about the room and he seems to be more comfortable with standing on things that are closer to me and seems to be more comfortable with exploring everything in the room a little more:D I've noticed that his favourite foods seem to be apples, melon slices and peanuts so I've cut these out of the diet and I've been using them for treats only but Still no luck getting him to take them from my hands:/
MissK
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by MissK »

Mini, start by offering these treats from the outside of the cage while birdie is inside. The wall between you may serve to help him relax, since he knows you can't come at him through the bars. You put your hand up to the cage about 7 inches away from where he is, him on the inside, treat pressing through the bars. If he sees and recognizes the treat, it's probably just a matter of time, so long as you keep the hand still and maintain gentle, quiet, non-threatening demeanor.

Once he will take it through the bars you can start leading him to follow the treat, him still in the cage, you still outside. Once that is reliable, if he will let you reach in the cage, you try again offering him the treat from a few inches away, but now your hand inside the cage. Then when he will take it reliable, let him follow it inside the cage. Let him work for it. Then try again on the outside of the cage, same procedure, building up to it.

If he doesn't tolerate your hand in the cage, switch the in cage/out of cage steps.
-MissK
minikid12345
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Re: New IRN owner, Need help really badly :(

Post by minikid12345 »

Hello again, quick question, is my bird in the moulting phase? His tail feathers have become short and jagged and he's got little grey parts on his feathers on his wings and body..... Really worried, any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
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