moody female - but it's not breeding season

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electronegative
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:20 pm

moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by electronegative »

Hi all,

My lutino female, Peaches, has been acting up lately - territorial about her cage, being more snappy/bitey, and sometimes more noisy. She's normally very quiet and only screams if she's alarmed by something or if she urgently wants something; otherwise she mostly whistles. She also normally doesn't bite.

The problem is it's not breeding season yet. It's in the spring, right? It's the middle of winter here.

I was thinking she might be confused because it was only cold for like 2 weeks and then the weather shot back up to very warm. I don't put her to bed according to daylight hours, so maybe she was confused by the days being "long"? I really don't know. I read ellie's thread on Janey being nippy and will try some of the things she did, ie. rearranging the things inside the cage.

Are there any explanations for why a female might be acting hormonal when it's not breeding season?
MissK
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Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by MissK »

Hey, I forgot or never knew where you are in the world?

Last year Rocky displayed his nest-minded behaviour from just after Christmas until very late Spring. We're in Baltimore, MD, USA. We get ready to attract mates in the Fall, court them, and hatch babies in the early Spring. Then we feed babies till they're ready to go and then we moult and do it again. I think it makes sense for the "hormonal time" to last for months.

Or she could be unwell, or troubled by something around her.

These are my two cents.
-MissK
AJPeter
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Location: Birmingham England
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by AJPeter »

My alex hen Billie started to get hormonal in November, but this was probalby due to over petting on my part when she started to rub herself on me l read what l could and one thing was electric light, as it got dark in the evenings l switched on all the lights, l read that this can trigger the start of hormonal behaviour, Intheair set up a new thread for me to air my woes and it has been very helpful. I was giving moist mushy cooked food and this l had to stop, stroking had to be limited to the head only and only two or three tiems a day, riding aorund on my shouldeer to not more than two 15 minutes periods. I had to stop her quite firmly as she tried to mate with me, she became very terriotorial and bit me quite often even on the lip.
I found a routine was best sticking to the time of 7 pm but turning out ligfhts from 6 pm helped her to settle down. Also she wanted and neeed more sleep so l was forced out of my lovely warm living room into the cold cold bed room/
Billie started laying eggs the begining of January and has laid 6 or five l've lost count/
electronegative
Posts: 91
Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:20 pm

Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by electronegative »

MissK, I'm in Texas. For some reason, it didn't occur to me that IRN will court each other. I mean, I KNEW it... I just didn't think about it. :roll:

AJ, I absolutely don't want her to lay eggs. I've read that it can cause calcium deficiency, and besides a PMSy female of any species is never fun. Will definitely take a look at your thread for Billie.

Thanks for the help!
InTheAir
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by InTheAir »

Hi electro,

Pamela Clark has written a good article on how to reduce breeding behaviour in parrots.
My brain seems to be on strike this morning, so I can't think of any other good article.

Good luck with peaches!
ellieelectrons
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by ellieelectrons »

I think all I can do is offer my commiserations. We've been away for a couple of weeks and we took Janey & Charlie with us. Mostly she's been the perfect bird whilst we've been away. We had to come home to do some things so we're home again for one night and this morning Janey flew at my twice with a squark like she is in pain - she wasn't in pain, it's her I'm angry at you and want to bite you squark. It's probably the second time she's ever done that to me. She also started investigating some of her old fav nesting spots. I'm hoping she's not starting to think about that again, it's too soon! Last year it started in March (I'm in the southern hemisphere). The second time she did it this morning, I was attempting to take some photos of the amazing gym Claire made for us for Christmas... I don't think she approved of my holding the iPhone in front of my face! lol

Ellie.
electronegative
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Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:20 pm

Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by electronegative »

I love the word squark.

I heard that fully flighted birds can sometimes get aggressive, and are more docile when clipped. Peaches is clipped (even though I didn't want her to be - the pet store clipped despite my specifically saying not to) so I don't know if she'd be more aggressive if flighted.

Peaches also likes to burrow, especially in blankets. I thought I'd lost her once, only to notice a long yellow tail sticking out from under my covers. Would you recommend allowing her to nest if she wants to, or no?
ellieelectrons
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by ellieelectrons »

My avian vet and Pamela Clark (parrot behaviour consultant) both advocate for not allowing companion parrots to nest so I try to do everything I can to prevent it. See this thread for more info on my struggles with this: http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... =2&t=14905

Ellie.
InTheAir
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by InTheAir »

Ellie got in first!
electronegative wrote:I love the word squark.

I heard that fully flighted birds can sometimes get aggressive, and are more docile when clipped. Peaches is clipped (even though I didn't want her to be - the pet store clipped despite my specifically saying not to) so I don't know if she'd be more aggressive if flighted.
I would take that with a pinch of salt. It appears that many clipped ringnecks bite hard and often.

electronegative wrote: Peaches also likes to burrow, especially in blankets. I thought I'd lost her once, only to notice a long yellow tail sticking out from under my covers. Would you recommend allowing her to nest if she wants to, or no?
Many vets and behaviorists recommend trying to reduce breeding behaviour in female birds, as the risks of complications with egg laying are significant, for no reward. With pet birds there can be extra factors that predispose them to complications like being overweight, not being on a suitable diet for breeding.
Behaviorally there can be challenges too, like agression or trying to mate with a human.
mattcoffs
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by mattcoffs »

InTheAir, not so!

My female is an almost completely different personality between clipped/flighted.

When flighted, she is more aggressive, less interested in interaction (seems to prefer sitting ontop her cage doing nothing to interacting), very disobedient (refusing to return to cage etc and flying around the house).

When clipped, she happily sits by my side or on me all day long and rarely gives me any grief! Mind you she always gives a little bite to her cage bars and a little protest noise when i close her up to go to work, regardless of clip status!

She's moulting at the moment, so is flighted again (i'm waiting until she finishes to clip her again) and although she is much better than last year at this time she has definitely changed in temperament!
InTheAir
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by InTheAir »

Mattcoffs, that's very strange that your bird is only well behaved when clipped. Mine haven't been clipped ever and I have no trouble convincing them to do what I'd like them to do. I wouldn't call them obedient like a dog can be, but they will do as I ask, fly to me when called and they are not disobedient. They come hang out with me when I invite them or if they decide they would like to. The rest of the time they are off playing or raiding the others cages. :mrgreen:

It strikes me as a very odd idea that one must disable ones bird in order to live in harmony with it. That rings alarm bells for me. I would be assessing my training approach if I were in that situation.
Positive reinforcement training is very effective with parrots.
Also making the cage a rewarding place to be by providing fun foraging toys and good treats when they go in the. My birds are both hanging out in their cages solving puzzles right now and look very contented. They were "helping" me with my sewing before I put them away and it was driving me a bit nuts!
Little Buttercup
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by Little Buttercup »

mattcoffs wrote:InTheAir, not so!

My female is an almost completely different personality between clipped/flighted.

When flighted, she is more aggressive, less interested in interaction (seems to prefer sitting ontop her cage doing nothing to interacting), very disobedient (refusing to return to cage etc and flying around the house).

When clipped, she happily sits by my side or on me all day long and rarely gives me any grief! Mind you she always gives a little bite to her cage bars and a little protest noise when i close her up to go to work, regardless of clip status!

She's moulting at the moment, so is flighted again (i'm waiting until she finishes to clip her again) and although she is much better than last year at this time she has definitely changed in temperament!
Just wondering, isn't it that a clipped bird is forced to stay where she does'nt want to? If she is flighted she will choose where she likes to sit. Suppose if my feet are clipped and someone makes me sit where they want to I won't have any choice but to remain sitting there against my will till that person feels like moving me elsewhere. I will have to put up with his choices. A clipped bird is a disabled bird.

Ash
mattcoffs
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by mattcoffs »

Not at all Ash.
If she is clipped and wants to leave my side she will make it clear, and move. I don't force her to sit with me - i don't force her to do anything.
She is flighted right now and sitting on my arm preening and beak clicking right now as i type.

I was simply saying she is just a much calmer, more balanced bird clipped. I didn't say she is only well behaved when she is clipped, i said she is noticeably better behaved. Or less cheeky.
A lot of people have noted the same, especially with female ringnecks.

I should have stated i've only actually clipped her once in two years (her age), perhaps she has matured in the time she was clipped. She is flighted right now and pretty good, a little short tempered as shes moulting.

Part of my reasoning for clipping is to do with my partner who is slowly coming around to being around uncaged birds - not that i need to justify anything to anyone, and i really hope i just read too much in to both of your comments but i definitely felt some judgement/condescending tones...

I have very little complaints with my bird, even during moulting and breeding seasons - so i really don't believe i have a problem with training. I have a two year old ringneck that waves, shakes "hands", turns around, follows a target stick, is starting to comfortably and happily lay on her back and gives kisses when asked. Not to mention will sit happily with me on the couch for hours, and almost never gets tired of scratches...

But in saying all that, I need to be at work by a certain time and live alone so last year when my bird decided she didn't want to return to her cage peacefully when i had to go to work something had to be done. Clipping aided in training additional training. She is flighted right now and has no problem returning to her cage.
InTheAir
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by InTheAir »

Mattcoofs, your first post gave me the impression that you have trouble returning the bird to the cage and encouraging her to be there. I don't think that is to do with flight, but with entertainment in the cage. Nila went through a minor phase of not wanting to spend time in his cage, I adapted my approach of this and presto! bird loves to go see what adventures are in store for him in there.

The concept of clipping a bird to "knock it down a peg or 2" or to get it to comply is completely abhorrent to me. I think this idea stems from the idea of height dominance and having mastery over all creatures. I do know that as soon as both my birds felt comfortable with us and wanted to hang out more they flew straight down to wherever we were. Neither shows aggression if I climb onto a chair to induce them to step up from a curtain rail to my hand, as they learnt to fly to my hand pretty early in our relationship I seldom have to do that.
The whole idea of the bird being clipped to induce compliance reeks of learned helplessness to me. If I had to clip my aviary raised bird to get her tame, I would not have bothered to tame her. I'd rather have a pain in the butt bird. Luckily that scenario didn't play out that way and at 5 and a half months old she likes to be involved in what i am doing, does the basic tricks and is being harness trained.
Nila is maybe 18 or 19 months and does at least 30 tricks reliably (we are a bit lazy about remembering his tricks), and loves to learn more and to be involved with what we are doing.
I have 2 very different birds that were raised in very different ways, both have always had their wings and both are equally trainable using positive reinforcement.
I'm probably a better trainer from having flighted birds as there is no cheating allowed, if I stop using reward based training and try to force them to do anything, they won't comply. This leaves me the simple options of improving my training methods and looking at the birds eye view or buying a net. I'm cheap, so I just modify my approach and convince them my ideas are worth doing. :wink:
mattcoffs
Posts: 79
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by mattcoffs »

I'm sorry, i shouldn't expect you to understand but it's easy to just assume everybody knows what you're talking about sometimes!

The issue i was experiencing had nothing to do with entertainment within the cage.

I realise you aren't to know this but i really think you shouldn't just speculate blindly.

I do everything to my abilities to provide entertainment while i'm out of the house. I rotate toys weekly, re-arrange her cage fortnightly-ish, she has plenty of foraging toys and treats to find, i leave TV & radio on for her while i'm at work sometimes as well as moving her cage around to keep a fresh eye view of my apartment.

What I was experiencing was my bird, smart enough to figure out that if she doesn't go into her cage i don't go to work and thus part company with her. There was no possible way to train this out of her solely with treats etc as i did not have the time. I can't simply not show up for work because i'm training my parrot! I'm sure you realise how hard it is to positively reward a parrot who has no interest in anything other than flying to the other end of your apartment and back again as you feebly try to a) get to work and b) train her out of it.

Also note, this behaviour was ONLY in the mornings on weekdays. On weekends, she will happily return to her cage whenever throughout the day.

Having her clipped allowed me to focus on treats and positively re-enforcing her in the mornings.

Never once did i say it was to "knock a bird down a peg or 2."

Whether you clip your bird or not is your call, but i really don't appreciate you insinuating i'm doing wrong by my bird. You're just making assumptions based on a few paragraphs - and to be honest sounding very condescending in the process.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to train a parrot. Just because you think you're doing everything right doesn't mean it will work for everybody and every bird :wink:
ellieelectrons
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Re: moody female - but it's not breeding season

Post by ellieelectrons »

I see this topic has veered way off course from the original question, so I'm going to lock it. Electronegative, if you'd like to, feel free to start another thread on the same topic.

Ellie.
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