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New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him.

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Abbi30
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New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him.

Post by Abbi30 » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:04 am

Hey guys.

I was hoping someone could be of some assistance. We have recently purchased a hand reared and hand tamed IRN. He is 4 months old and we have had him for a week. He is just getting used to his cage and his surroundings and eats his seeds and fruits nicely and happy to eat them out of his cage.
We are struggling to allow him to get close to him, he moves away and attempts to fly away, he has clipped wings so we are scared that he might hurt himself.

Does anyone have any idea how we can get close to him and get him to step up or start trusting us?

Thanks in advance.

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:44 pm

it is all to do with building trust between you Heisenbird. I would recomend you site by his cage as often as you can. Eat your meals in front of hlm, offer him treats between the bars. If you put a lot a small items sead pellets fruit veg int front of him see what he goes for first this could become a treat. Gradually he will learn to trust you and then you can start getting close to him/

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InTheAir
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:33 pm

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Taming is a regular conversation on this forum, if you search the forum you will find a lot of posts on the subject.

I'm a total fan of this method:
http://learningparrots.com/blog/trainin ... l-parrots/
I have had great success using this style of trust building on my young aviary raised bird, I highly recommend reading it!

Depending on how nervous your bird is when you are near his cage, reading a book or doing something nearby can be useful. It is very important not to park yourself closer than he is comfortable with, as he is stuck in the cage and cannot get away to a safer spot.
If he starts climbing up the back wall of the cage you're too close for comfort. If the bird is comfortable about the distance between you, he will be more curious and more inclined to check you out than he would if you are close enough to make him nervous.

Lots of patience is essential! The trick is to convince the parrot that it wants to come near you.

Regards,
Claire

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:44 am

Thank you guys for your advice. Ill try and put some fruit and other treats for him, i think currently the cage doesn't allow to leave treats unless i leave them in the feeding tray.
In terms of his confidence he turns around when i get closer to him, he is maybe a meter away from where we sit and he sits on the other side of the perch. When he is out and perching on top of the cage, he goes to the back and hangs on the cage. Ill move him maybe next to the couch and like you said maybe read or talk to him more by sitting next to him.

Would still appreciate any other ideas toooo :D

Abbi & Heisenbird

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:35 pm

If you do not have enough feeding bowls could use a small china bowl to put inside your seed bowl for treats and take that out when treat time is over. You can buy extra feeding bowls to hang on the side of the cage but if you are using a feeding bowl to hold water it would be better to use a water bottle with ball bearing in spout, and that would free up a feeding bowl for treats/fresh fruit

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:18 pm

Hi Abbi,

Did you get a chance to look over the learning parrots site?
I'm afraid there is no quick fix taming method, it all depends how well you can show the bird that you are trustworthy. I didn't spend a lot of time in the same room as my new bird when I got her, but I would go into her room and drop a treat in her dish at least once an hour when I was home. I started spending more time with her when she had calmed down enough to approach me for treats.
Knowing you're birds favourite food is a great help. Mine loves most fruit, especially apples and sprouted sunflower seeds.
This post is a run down on how I worked with my new bird:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18181
If your bird is hand raised it shouldn't take long for him to accept you.

If your bird is hanging back from you, I'd say you're too close. Leaving treats and moving away so he can eat them in peace will give him a chance to associate you with good things.

Some people use force to make the bird accept them, I haven't delved into that myself, but going by posts I have seen, it seems to be a reliable way to teach ringnecks to bite you!

If you choose to use a water bottle, do your homework first. Parrots like to bathe regularly.
Also water bottles can get stuck, depriving the bird of water completely. I wouldn't use them for this reason.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:46 pm

Water bottles tempt the human to lapse on hygiene. Beware. Also, some birds actually stuff bits of food up in there. Unless you're a fan of the bottle brush, think twice.

On a side note, I have a nice water bottle for sale, cheap......... :lol:
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:33 pm

I would rather have a water bottle than contaminated water MissK, but each to their own, how much do you want for the water bottle? I could do with a spare, l agree with you though that water bottles have to be watched because the ball can get stuck, and maybe the water is not changed as often as it should on one hand but, well enough said

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:25 pm

dont forget your happy voice.. and confidence those 2 always help along with eye contact

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:04 pm

Thank you guys for the further advice.

In the air: i really like the approach you mentioned, it seems more natural. Yeah its only been 2 weeks tomorrow and maybe I'm being a little apprehensive. We are trying different foods with him, trying a range of nuts and in terms of fresh fruit, he has a nibble at apples and bananas but loves grapes. we've put a range of nuts in the cage in a small bowl like suggested and will see what he prefers. Ive tried millet spray and he doesn't seem to eat that. Any veg in particular, we tried peppers, gonna try carrots next. He is happy when he's out and chills on the horse shoe as i think he likes the reflection from the window. He is still hiding when close but he happily 'steps up' onto a perch when playing and when i wanna take him to the cage to eat or bedtime. But he still panics when i move close to him and is still turning his back. We have moved things around and have placed a couch closer to him to become more familiar.

POA: will try treats every now and again and leave him to it.
Continue giving him his chill out time outside as much as possible ( i don't know if this is a good thing or not).
Keep trying to find his favourite food.

Also spoke to the guy who reared and tamed him and he's willing to come round and see if he can try some trust building exercises. Watch this space.

Thanks again (and as always any advice is good advice, so i really appreciate any tips)

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:39 pm

Abbi ~ I'm sorry he's turning his back. Really, I interpret this exactly as it looks. : ( It's good news the original owner will make some time for you, really, that's great! Go ahead and drop the food in the feed dish if you must, but let the bird see you do it. Keep trying to find that jackpot value food.

AJ ~ If you picked it up here, it would be free! :mrgreen:
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:08 am

Progress: Very little progress made. he is hanging back when we are approaching, i have attempted stopping and allowing him to get comfortable. I let him out to roam the room when i am at home and he is happy to chill on the clothes horse where he sees a reflection in a window i think. He's good in stepping up on a stick and then going back to his cage BUT i have tried to keep him on the stick for a prolonged period as to move him closer to me and gain trust but he isn't having any of this. Ifi leave him grapes as treats in the cage he will happily eat them when we have left his 'area'.
He is still turning his back when he is around.

We sit roughly 2.5 metres away from him and he is facing us and even this distance he is turning his back when we sit and are watching telly.

So all in all still struggling with gaining his trust.

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:14 am

I think you should back up some. If he is still turning his back at this distance, you are still too close. Also, the television might be bothering him, and not really yourself. Can you be in the next room where he can watch you eating?
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:45 pm

I second what Missk says.
Also, the favourite foods you use as treats should not be part of his normal meals. This gives them more desirability. Ringnecks fill up quite easily, so small portions of the treat is a good idea. At that age birds are less food motivated, their instincts are all about learning to fly well and being light enough to do it. Maybe quarter of a grape at a time.
I overfed treats to Sapphire when she first stepped up, which meant that she had no motivation to step up after I had let her out of the cage. I had to wait several hours before she was hungry enough to be motivated to step up and be returned to the cage!

Do you reward him when he steps up on the stick?

Did the former owner come give you some tips and show you how he worked with the bird.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:36 am

Hey guys. Cheers for that.

The room is an open plan, kitchen, lounge and diner. i will take a picture later and show you (if you think i should move his cage).
He steps up on a stick when i take him back to his cage in the evening etc and if he needs to eat. He doesn't get close enough to me when he's on a stick for me to give him treats from my hand, he panics and try's to fly away.

As of yet the previous handler hasn't got back to us yet.

Do yo have any thoughts on letting him out of his cage (time periods) as he is being like this? I let him out when i am in the house and he is caged up with a tv or a radio on for him. Or is letting him out and given him his food etc not giving him any reason to get close to us?

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:01 am

I can only see the freedom from the cage providing him physical and mental exercise - not a bad thing UNLESS returning him to the cage is not on his terms. That is to say, if you need to chase or capture him that would be clearly detrimental. If he goes home on his own or for a lure, then out time is probably ideal, regardless of his tameness level.

I would put that TV or radio on a timer. Nobody needs that all day long, and he is unlikely to think it's really you. The main benefit of keeping noise on is to prevent dead silence, which would (in the wild) suggest a predator is near. Another strategy would be to put it on very, very low, and not too close to him.

The cage should be situated against a wall, or in a corner for an extremely fearful bird. It should be where the bird can see activity of the house without being in the midst of commotion. So, typically, the living room yes, the hallway no. The bird should also be situated where he can see people approach not popping suddenly around the corner and surprising him. It doesn't matter if the plan is open or with separate rooms. The thing is that you need to be far away enough that he can watch you without concern you are too close. As he gets familiar, he should be relaxing.

Also, while many older books will tell you against this, be sure he has a high perch. When the bird can get up high he feels safer. Make it eye level for you or higher. If you ever do get closer to the cage, consider a short stool to sit on while you talk to him. Your bird cant relax and make friends if he's always watching his back.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:44 am

Missk.

Yeah, i tend to leave the tv or radio on for background noise. As you mention it, going back to his cage is becoming more difficult, he does wanna fly away. :(
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:30 pm

Could l recommend that Abbi you cover the cage with a thick cloth at night when you are watching TV. They need 12 to 14 hours sleep and best not to have the TV sound up. When Billie goes to bed and l want to watch TV l do so with headphones so as not to disturb her.

I may have to take a rain check on the water bottle MissK.

The window looks large Abbi when you bird is out flying it will be a big temptation to head for the outside, either keep the curtains closed when he is out or have some net/lace/muslim curtain hanging up, if he flies into that window he could break his neck.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:28 pm

Hey abbi,

I am viewing this thread from my phone, so I may be misinterpreting the photo. From my phone, that cage looks extremely small for a ringneck. Also, birds are usually more comfortable when they are up high, like eye level to us when we are standing. Their instincts are all about getting to a high place when threatened.
Do you have a nice stand for him to play on when he is out of the cage?

Missk will be along shortly with some better advice on cage dimensions etc, I am sure. :wink:

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:19 pm

Aj: Yeah I cover him at night when he goes to sleep and he hasn't tried to go for the window yet but I'll use the curtains from now.

In the air: The cage was recommended by the dude i bought it off, reason given was if it is quite big then he would be more comfortable to stay in and not want to interact outside???
I am looking at buying a perch for him atm but currently he happily uses the clothes horse which is quite high as a substitute. I have moved him from his position in the photo to the window you can see. I will take a picture which is closer to give a better idea of dimensions...

ha ha, both of you are my silver lining atm with him. Kinda at a loose end.

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:24 pm

Hmm. ... I really don't think a big cage hinders taming at all, most bird cages are not exactly huge anyway. I would think that a scared bird would be more likely to relax when he is in a cage that is larger, as he feels safer and not cornered, and it's easier to work with a more relaxed bird. If he was in a giant free flight aviary, it would be a problem to get his attention... but you wouldn't have one in a house anyway.
Nilas cage is 2m long and he is always keen to come out and play!

I have read some stuff about cage positioning by well respected parrot behaviorists that advises not to position a cage too close to a window, as the bird can feel very exposed. I think miss k summed positioning a cage up well in her last post.

For myself, the best thing I have found for working with birds is having no expectations of the bird and no time frame. It takes as long as it takes for the bird to decide what kind of relationship you will have. ... I don't know if that's helpful to you. I really enjoy watching our birds play and do their thing, whether it is with me or not.
I would be getting him the biggest cage you can fit/afford (with appropriate bar spacing for a small bird), buying him some nice toys, foraging and otherwise and watching him enjoy it, while still keeping up your taming efforts. Drop a yummy treat in the cage every time you walk past it, tell him how beautiful he is, you will win him over with love!

My Sapphire took a few weeks to accept me and I had previous experience reading birdy body language, as well as a very well researched plan of how to work with her. I made a huge effort to stick to this consistently, so she never felt I was going to trespass into her space without permission. I didn't let her out of her cage until she was vaguely tame, I felt a bit cruel but I didn't want to have to force her to go back in by catching her or using a net (both my birds have always been fully flighted).
You are doing great that he will step onto a stick and eat treats, keep up the good work.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:07 pm

I cannot make a real post right now since I am not home, but yes, right now, move that cage up high. You can put that stool on top a table for a decent height. And I agree. That cage pictured would make a lovely sleep cage. He needs something more like 36 inches wide and as tall.

Catch you later.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:36 am

In the air: so when you didn't let sapphire out of the cage until semi tamed, what does that include, collecting food from hand and stepping up on hand from the cage? I suppose it makes nonsense going back a few steps eh.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:15 pm

I let Rocky out as soon as he would follow a food lure - which was pretty soon!
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:14 pm

I waited until she didn't panic when I was in the room and would be lured, come towards me to eat treats. She was completely not tame when I got her and would panic fly across her cage if I moved anywhere near her.


As missk said, if you can get your bird in the cage without scaring him, it's great for him to have time out of the cage.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:34 pm

seeing as its a young hand tamed bird if it still isnt coming round to you by now i would recomend using the sock over hand method and just pick him up and let him realise you mean no harm...

The longer he goes without contact the harder its going to be to ever get him back to tame... dont be afraid to get bitten lol just try and not react when you get bitten

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:05 pm

The theory behind grabbing the bird and holding it is here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:41 pm

Tyeman ~I really would recommend against flooding. It's clear to see the bird is in a cage too small in an extremely vulnerable location. He's scared and it will do no good to scare him further. At this point the very least he needs is to be raised so his high perch is at least 5 feet from the floor. This alone should have a profound impact on his well-being.

Abbi has been very poorly served by the seller of the bird and cage, and now he needs some real help. There is no judgement here, well, not of Abbi, anyway. His cage seller is on my black list. I had high hopes for the seller to help Abbi learn how to make friends with Heisenbird but my hopes are fading fast. If this is the same individual who sold that tiny cage, they're going to be no help at all.

Abbi ~ I think, if the bird was truly hand tamed to start with, he should be able to recover in fairly short order, once his needs are met. I cannot stress this enough, if you have not yet raised that cage, stand up and go do it right now. If you have raised the cage, then you should now start shopping for a more suitable one. You can keep that little one for a sleep or travel cage, or you can maybe see if the seller will take it back since you need larger. Don't fall for the "no refund but you can use the cost towards a different cage". You don't want to do any more business with that person.

Your new cage doesn't really have to be huge, but you should try for it to be at least 36" wide and tall, and (hopefully) more than 20" front to back. I'll bet my ball of jute that little cage is 18" square. If you're in the USA, Petco sells several cages that would be a dramatic step up from what you have, and with free shipping. Check these out. If you don't have other pets like dogs or cats, this might be ideal: http://www.petco.com/product/112008/Pre ... -Cage.aspx If you need it to sit a little higher, this one is also very nice: http://www.petco.com/product/118292/HQ- ... Stand.aspx This next one is, I think, still on the small side, but attractive. I have it for when my bird is going to spend a lot of time in a different area of the house: http://www.petco.com/product/114149/Pet ... -Cage.aspx And, if you'd like to indulge the little guy, consider this: http://www.petco.com/product/122696/HQ- ... -Cage.aspx Incidentally, that last one is the one I have for my bird's every day cage. If strongly pressed, I *might* admit it could possibly be larger than he absolutely needs, but who doesn't want to give their bird the best they can?

Abbi, once you get Heisenbird situated properly, you'll be able to apply the strategies that have not worked yet, and most likely they will succeed. You have the whole forum behind you if they are not enough. It's going to be OK!
Last edited by MissK on Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:50 pm

I am genuinely touched by my he help you guys are offering and have offered so far. In regards to the bird cages I'm in the uk so I'm currently hunting down a larger cage. I hve raised the current cage by another 2 ft with a stool. I don't have anything else atm to raise him with.

The owner hasn't got back to me after several phone calls and messages. I'm assuming he's not going to turn up.

That's the first plan of action. Secondly it seems missk has made me into a female but with all the help she's given me im sure I can deal with that ;p.

Thanks again guys. Let's see how we go with this and I'll keep you updated.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:52 pm

In regards to letting him out, as he doesn't follow any foid lure and he still panics in the cage, should I be letting him out?
When he is out I was getting him up on a stick and he would step up and I can take him to the cage but he is now associating that with going back to the cage so I have stopped.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:30 pm

Sorry Abbi. Where I am, this is a girlie name, and I didn't think it right to peek so soon after meeting...... I'll make the necessary edit.

I would actually advise keep him in the cage for now, till the bigger one comes. Then work on him for the food lure. With your open spaces it would be a lot of trouble getting him back into a cage he doesn't like. When the time comes, try the high ticket foods for the lure, like nuts, apple, large seeds.

Here's a likely looking cage, though it says the bars are "chrome". That would be extraordinarily unlikely in the US, that it would be made of chrome, so I would say do some research if you like this one. Maybe Chrome means something else in the UK. "Stainless steel" (USA) is the only acceptable material for bars coloured "chrome". http://www.amazon.co.uk/LARGE-BECKINGHA ... +bird+cage
How about this? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prevue-Products ... +bird+cage
The biggest size of this one looks kind of interesting, but I confess my eyes are starting to glaze over and I didn't look at the features. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Montana-Villa-C ... rrot++cage
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:49 pm

We have an open top dome style cage at work for Nila and we find the dome makes hanging foraging toys a bit awkward. I prefer a flat top. The last cage looked interesting though.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:21 am

Miss k, it's KP worries, lol! I wasn't even going to correct you out of politeness. It's a shortened version.
Right I've moved him up and I'll see the effects after work today and I'm on the lookout for a new cage for hopefully the end of the week.

Just a quick question, silly as it sounds. By food lure you mean, leaving it in his cage/tempting him with certain treats and if he collects from me?

So far he's ok with nuts, tried cashews and couple others, fruits(apples, bananas), haven't been a winner except grapes. But I'm still trying with that.

It seems I'm going back to square one which I am happy to do so!! As long as we get to a stage where the bird is comfortable etc.

I love how you guys have found me some links. I do like the last one.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:33 am

Hi Abbi,

The nice thing about going back to square one is that, assuming he was really hand tamed to start, it's just going to be a refresher course for him. If there are any sticky points, you'll find and fix them before you go trying to build on a behaviour that isn't there. It might go slower than you want due to the scare he has had but unless you tortured and chased him (doubt it!) he should be quick. Be sure you take some quiet daytime naps on that sofa so he can watch you sleep.

When you find your cage, be sure to check a couple of sellers because prices for the same cage can vary in a silly way.

Food lure basics ~
Introduce tempting foods to the bird and make note of his very favourites. These will be your training treats, of which the lure is one. Lay the foods on a sheet of paper or a plate in the cage. Use binoculars if you must.

Once you ID the great food, give some to the bird. If he is fearful and won't come near, give him a signal before you approach so he will later be able to know that food is on the way to him. That gives incentive to come near. For example:
Abbi: Here Comes Peanuts! (walks to cage)
Bird retreats in cage.
Abbi: (softly) Peanuts! (drops a peanut in the dish and goes away)
Bird eventually eats peanut.

After a while, the bird will know that when you call "Here come peanuts" that a treat is coming. He will be more eager to see you and your peanuts. When he's ready, he will stop retreating and wait closer for the nuts. At that time you can start offering the peanut by hand through the bars before you drop it in the cup.

When you drop it in the cup, then retreat to the closest "safe" distance while he eats the nut. As he gets more eager to approach for the peanut, reduce it's size. The goal is ultimately a bit just big enough for him to perceive he got something.

At this point, when he will reliably go to the food cup when you say "Peanuts" and drop some in, he is following the lure. Of course, the lure isn't moving very much. But, when you drop the lure in different places, and he goes to get it, you have an effective tool for moving him. This it the time to let him out.

You will close off the space as well as you can, put down any hazards (turn off and cool the stove, cover the windows, hang a curtain in the doorways to restrict passage, close the toilet, still the fan, etc), and open the cage door. Very nice would be to put a food cup on the outside of the cage, so you can direct him to that spot. Later, that can be a a little transition station, if you like, a place for him to stop a minute on the way in and out. On the way back in, of course, after you treat the cup outside the cage, you put massive treats inside. Thus, you can entice him in and also reward him for going in once he does.

NOTES:
*If you let him out first thing in the morning before breakfast, and do not over-treat while he's out, you will ensure a higher degree of interest in following the lure back home when it's time.
*Leave plenty of time for letting him out, so you don't end up calling work and telling them you can't leave the house till your parrot goes home.
*Ensure every other human knows the bird is out and to keep closed all doors, windows, etc. and prevent hazardous conditions.

You have to use your own judgement on when to drop the nut and retreat, and when to drop it and remain. Then, again, you will have to use your judgement on when to stop dropping the nut and start making him come to you for it. When you do that, increase the size of the nut. You want him to have a Huge reward for coming to take it off you.

NOTE: When teaching him to follow the lure, never move your hand towards him. What we see as offering a treat he will see as BIG HAND CHASING ME!!!! Offer the lure a comfortable distance from him and let him come to you. As time goes along, the distance should decrease. Eventually, the bird will come to the part of the cage closest to you and follow you because of expecting treats. Don't disappoint him too much after this starts or he may change his mind.

Once you can feed him by hand, you can move the nut and he will follow. Then he will be following a handheld lure, and you can move him (virtually) anywhere he is not afraid to go. This is also helpful in teaching him activities, such as tricks and "enter the travel cage".
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by ranechild » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:36 am

I highly recommend the napping idea. I feel as if I made the most progress with my birdies after they saw me sleeping.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:01 am

Miss k. You are an absolute gem. I will get into that as my port of call along with having his residence sorted. Also provides me with an excuse to nap! Ha

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:18 am

Abbi,

Thanks, but don't tell; everybody will want some!

Get thee to the couch!

:lol:
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:21 pm

You could try Northern Parrots l bought a top opening cage from them for £129 they can deliver in two days I have added an attachment of cage Height 60" Width 24" and depth 20"
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:48 pm

Can I just add a little caution about when you want him to come take a treat from your hand. Make sure you do it when he's truly keen, some people seem to think it's a stubborness battle. It's not! It means go back to where he's comfortable again.
The other thing I noticed with Sapphire was she accepted me better at different times of the day, she would take treats from my hand in the afternoon, but wouldn't approach me in the mornings. I just went back to unconditional treats in the dish at these times and she soon got over it. Now she's tame all day long :mrgreen:
So if you feel you have gone back a step for no reason, don't worry it's probably temporary.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:03 pm

Hey guys.

Quick update. Larger cage has been ordered just looking for a stand for him to chill on and eat from when he's outside.
In terms of his behavior. I think it's improved after he's been perched higher up, I've also started the treats and letting him know when they're coming, so as long as he's heard us coming he doesn't start climbing to the back of the cage. If you stay there too long he does do that, so I stay as long as he's comfortable and go away so he can safely eat his food.
He's also using he front perch which is closest I me and I have had a few naps in front of him, I'm hoping the snoring has scared him.
Still looking for that magic food, but grapes and pomegranate seeds are his faves at the moment. Do I've cut them down to a seed or two and a quarter grape an hour that is announced for his royal highness.
Just waiting for him to come to it now and then that'll be a real sign of progress.

Thanks again

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:47 pm

Abbi, I'm glad you checked in - was wondering how it's coming along.

Get yourself a little plate of grape pieces, give him some, and then take yours to the far end of the couch and take your time eating them. The concept is to share food. In time, you may get him to try or eat a new food just because you are having it. It's a combination of indulging in flock behaviour (eating together) and modeling behaviour.

Anecdote: My bird would not try strawberries. Just would not have any part of them. I brought a bowl of diced berries *and my two dogs* to the cage. Offered Rocky a berry piece. Rejected. Ate some myself, passed one to the first dog, one to the second dog, another for me, etc. Offered another to Rocky. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Rocky threw a lot of pieces around, but he also nibbled some. The next morning he was a bird who eats strawberries.

My dogs and I modeled the behaviour (eating strawberries). We ate together, and it made Rocky want to eat with us. That's hard-wired in his brain. This was the direct cause of him trying the berries at all. I guess it would not have gone so well if strawberries were just not for him, or if we were eating, say, gravel. Point is, you should have the strategies of modeling behaviour and eating together in your parrot tool kit. :D

ALSO, congratulations on the improvements you are seeing. That's really grand! When you get him in the new cage, don't be surprised if he's uneasy and possibly standoffish for a few days. Sometimes they need transition time. On the other hand, he may not bat an eye. Keep novel toys and cage furnishings below the half-high line and gradually move them up, to ensure he isn't spooked with no escape. Unless he will not go near the items, should be fine to move them up over a few days. That's just for right now, as he goes in the new cage, unless he develops shyness about large or novel toys. Keep the old cage (if you are keeping it) out so he can develop a more positive attitude towards it (maybe because you put some melon in there or whatever). That way, you can use it for trips and maybe even a sleep cage when he is more tame and comfortable with you.

Also, word to the wise - take your time picking out the stand. These things are expensive and many seem not to be designed with the PARROT in mind. Otherwords, they look nice to humans but don't offer so much to birds. Do a forum SEARCH on stands, play gyms, trees and check out what others have purchased or made. For instance, some people just cut a branch and put it in a Christmas tree stand. I sawed 7 or 8 feet off my fig tree and just threw that branch up sideways on top the cage. Free, free, free, AND lots of places to climb and hang toys. Extra bonus, takes up no additional room in the house. You can check my Pictures thread to see it.

Best wishes!
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:21 am

Thanks for the wisdom Miss K. Let's see how this week goes. Yeah I've been away on a course from work so not had a chance to check in.
Yeah the stuff I've read on stands is making it a tough decision. But no rush yet, like you said take things easy.

Have a lovely weekend

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:03 am

MissK wrote:Tyeman ~I really would recommend against flooding. It's clear to see the bird is in a cage too small in an extremely vulnerable location. He's scared and it will do no good to scare him further. At this point the very least he needs is to be raised so his high perch is at least 5 feet from the floor. This alone should have a profound impact on his well-being.

Abbi has been very poorly served by the seller of the bird and cage, and now he needs some real help. There is no judgement here, well, not of Abbi, anyway. His cage seller is on my black list. I had high hopes for the seller to help Abbi learn how to make friends with Heisenbird but my hopes are fading fast. If this is the same individual who sold that tiny cage, they're going to be no help at all.

Abbi ~ I think, if the bird was truly hand tamed to start with, he should be able to recover in fairly short order, once his needs are met. I cannot stress this enough, if you have not yet raised that cage, stand up and go do it right now. If you have raised the cage, then you should now start shopping for a more suitable one. You can keep that little one for a sleep or travel cage, or you can maybe see if the seller will take it back since you need larger. Don't fall for the "no refund but you can use the cost towards a different cage". You don't want to do any more business with that person.

Your new cage doesn't really have to be huge, but you should try for it to be at least 36" wide and tall, and (hopefully) more than 20" front to back. I'll bet my ball of jute that little cage is 18" square. If you're in the USA, Petco sells several cages that would be a dramatic step up from what you have, and with free shipping. Check these out. If you don't have other pets like dogs or cats, this might be ideal: http://www.petco.com/product/112008/Pre ... -Cage.aspx If you need it to sit a little higher, this one is also very nice: http://www.petco.com/product/118292/HQ- ... Stand.aspx This next one is, I think, still on the small side, but attractive. I have it for when my bird is going to spend a lot of time in a different area of the house: http://www.petco.com/product/114149/Pet ... -Cage.aspx And, if you'd like to indulge the little guy, consider this: http://www.petco.com/product/122696/HQ- ... -Cage.aspx Incidentally, that last one is the one I have for my bird's every day cage. If strongly pressed, I *might* admit it could possibly be larger than he absolutely needs, but who doesn't want to give their bird the best they can?

Abbi, once you get Heisenbird situated properly, you'll be able to apply the strategies that have not worked yet, and most likely they will succeed. You have the whole forum behind you if they are not enough. It's going to be OK!

yea your deff's right about the cage being to small my 2 have a 1.5mx90x1.8m(the bigger the better)... I failed to think of how that might affect a hand raised bird and make it act a bit wild.. But yes you might be right deffinently worth a try "flooding" should be absolute last resort

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:12 am

InTheAir wrote:The theory behind grabbing the bird and holding it is here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness
yea i can see where they are going with that theory but you could say the same thing about wing clipping... i should have worded it differently by picking him up i didnt mean just grab him with your hand i meant practice the usual step up method with a sock over your hand so you dont really need to even touch the bird if you just hold your sock covered hand in the step up position for a while and let him bite the hell out of you/it after a while(days/weeks) he will realize you mean no harm... You dont necessarily need to force the bird to do anything..Its a way of him getting used to your hand without him making you bleed.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:51 am

Hey guys.

Weekly update. We have tried with giving him treats and announcing these treats, he comes down and does have his treats but only after we are at a safe distance. Tried cutting down on treats so he wants them more, but no real effect. He is still getting stressed when we are close by, he flaps around inside the cage ;(

The notable positive is he is turning to face us most of the time if the distance is fine and when we sit near him to eat.

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:18 pm

does he have wings?

seeing as you dont seem to want to get close to him you could try clicker training... and just do basic targeting with a stick if he understands it and enjoys the interaction enough he should get excited enough to target onto your shoulder(if he has wings)... though he doesn't sound like that kind of bird..

there's always the sock theory let him bite the hell out of you until he notices it has no affect then you can put your sock covered hand near him with treats don't force him to do anything let him come to you though this probs wouldnt work if he has wings... would take a while but you seem to be running out of options...

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:35 pm

Abbi,
That sounds like a bit of improvement. Have you found anymore favourite foods? my guys can be pretty fickle, they love one thing for a few days then decide to scorn it :lol:

Clicker training can be very effective, I haven't tried it myself.

I caution anyone against using any form flooding to "tame" a bird.
Here's some more information on different types of training with links to other useful websites, including Karen Pryors clicker training
http://www.iaate.org/companion-parrots/ ... h-learning

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:57 pm

InTheAir wrote:Abbi,
That sounds like a bit of improvement. Have you found anymore favourite foods? my guys can be pretty fickle, they love one thing for a few days then decide to scorn it :lol:

Clicker training can be very effective, I haven't tried it myself.

I caution anyone against using any form flooding to "tame" a bird.
Here's some more information on different types of training with links to other useful websites, including Karen Pryors clicker training
http://www.iaate.org/companion-parrots/ ... h-learning

ughh just to be perfectly clear again im not talking about "flooding" im talking about using the simple step up Technic that every one uses except this bird is obviously going to bite so put a sock over your hand and let it bite the sock NO NEED TO FORCE THE BIRD TO DO ANYTHING just see if after a few goes at this it realises that the sock/hand isnt a threat and with a food lure will step up though like i said it probablly wouldnt work unless the bird had its wings clipped other wise it would just fly away ...because it is free to do what it wants because its not being FLOODED .. I have used this method with parent raised birds that i have gotten that already had clipped wings.. I wouldnt clip a birds wings just to do this...

its all about positive reinforcement not force or "flooding" you could start by simply giving the bird a treat when it stops bitting the sock/hand and go from there im not sure why this flooding has been mentioned or why the above link has been given because no one has mentioned forcing or flooding

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by InTheAir » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:28 pm

Tye,

If the bird is scared of hands so it runs away, the only way to get near the bird is to prevent it from escaping by running or flying away. This is forcing oneself upon the bird. Once it is cornered and can not escape, it will bite in self defense. If you don't listen to the signals the bird is giving and continue to keep your hand there, not only are you creating a relationship with your bird that is not based in understanding from either party, but you are forcing yourself upon it.

The link I posted explains the effects of different techniques and gives links to other useful websites on training, which the OP may find helpful.

Btw, I tamed my avairy raised bird fully flighted, without getting bitten, by letting her choose to come to me for treats. I've found force free training very effective on the other (also flighted) nervous birds I have handled. And, they don't bite me, they don't feel they need to.

I have kept my answer abbreviated, as this is not a topic about the merits of different training techniques, but if you would like to discuss this is further detail we can start a new topic. :)

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:32 pm

hmmm yes well i would have to disagree with that like i said it would only work if the bird had its wings clipped and even then there is no need for cornering the bird it can simply walk away straight away or when it gets bored of biting and thats when the positive reinforcement comes in. no force at all whatsoever.. I understand what you think im trying to explain is force or flooding but if you just put a little thought into it and like you said listen to the birds signals.. there is no stress or force needed.

though if the bird is that scared that you cant even stretch out a hand for it to bite yea it would be pretty pointless..

anyway going to need allot of encouragement by the sounds of it.. If he is comfortable with coming down and taking the treats while your at a certain distance and you always give him that distance nothing will change .because he is getting what he wants the food and for you to be a certain distance away..

maybe get a mesuring tape and decrease the distance between you and the bird by 1mm every 2-3 days

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:46 pm

Hi Abbi!
Weekly update. We have tried with giving him treats and announcing these treats, he comes down and does have his treats but only after we are at a safe distance.
So, this sounds good. Do you get the feeling he is making the connection between you coming along and announcing treats and the treats being there to eat? That would be ideal.
Tried cutting down on treats so he wants them more, but no real effect.
You don't need to cut down on the treat until he's taking them the way you want - ie, until it's "working". The reason for reducing the size of the treat is two-fold: 1) You want him to get the treat, appreciate his reward, but not spend all his time eating and getting distracted from your goal and 2) You don't want him to get all full and lazy before you have accomplished what you came for. Right now you are still in the "lookie how I have a jackpot of goodies - you *want* to be my friend" stage.
He is still getting stressed when we are close by, he flaps around inside the cage ;(
I'm sorry about this. Review your approach, make sure you are not surprising him, you're gentle, not moving too fast or creeping like a predator, you're bringing treats. When you get to the spot that is too close for his comfort, if you turn around and face away from him, does he manage to settle at all?
The notable positive is he is turning to face us most of the time if the distance is fine and when we sit near him to eat.
Am I understanding this correctly, he has *changed* his behaviour for the better? This sounds quite fine indeed. I would inch closer, and when I say inch, I mean literally move the place you sit closer only by inches over time.

Abbi, I know the slow pace has got to be frustrating, but if you are seeing a positive change, then you are doing something right. Have you got him set up in the bigger cage? How does he like it? How do you like it? Have you found out his #1 favourite food? Keep trying. You both can do this!
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:54 pm

just a thought would it be more effective to move the treat closer inch by inch or yourself closer inch by inch?

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:08 pm

I want Abbi to gradually reduce the distance that he sits from the bird, to help him get in closer, to help Heisenbird accept him closer. He cannot currently get close enough to pass the bird a treat directly without upsetting the bird.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:14 pm

MissK wrote:I want Abbi to gradually reduce the distance that he sits from the bird, to help him get in closer, to help Heisenbird accept him closer. He cannot currently get close enough to pass the bird a treat directly without upsetting the bird.
yes but i was just wondering if inching the treat closer to abbi would be more effective than inching Abbi closer to the treat and bird.. if ya know what i mean.. or are you just talking in general not treat time..

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:31 pm

I really meant in general, when he's near the bird, and specifically when he's eating, to help with the goal of the bird accepting his presence calmly.

I'm interpreting your other suggestion to mean something like having the bird follow a treat trail that leads ultimately to Abbi? I would not dismiss that; it could be worth a try. You would have to use a heck of a jackpot treat, though, at the stage this bird is in. Following a treat is, essentially, luring. Once Heisenbird understands and is on board with the concept of following a lure, Abbi will be able to let him out. That's when I think the treat trail idea could come into play.

I rather think, though, it would end up a snatch and run situation for quite some time. Still, I think this is how folks tame the wild animals at the park, to example. Sit still and toss out a trail of treats. Perhaps Abbi can implement both of these strategies once he starts letting the bird loose in the room.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Tyeman » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:51 pm

ahh right yea i get ya

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:33 am

Hey guys,

Thanks MissK for that, new cage is in, he's trying to settle at the moment. so the distance has gone back a little bit. I've added a pic for you to see. Still trying different treats. grapes and pomegranate seeds are still a winner. still announcing them and giving him treats on the hour, sitting by him when we eat, talking etc. difficult to edge closer to him like you guys are suggesting. other than giving him a treat and sitting closer to him.

Abbi
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:01 am

Abbi, the cage looks nice. I wish you were local to me so I could run over and help you furnish it with wonderful things!!!

Since you're about to go buy stuff, please, please let me convince you to use as much natural material as you can. If you can research and obtain natural (and free!) bird-safe branches (maybe from a friend who has their own land), that would be ideal. Failing that, there are some nice things on the market. PERCHES SHOULD BE OF THE DIAMETER THAT THE BIRD'S FEET GO 75% AROUND THEM, WITH AT LEAST ONE SLIGHTLY BIGGER AND ONE SIGHTLY SMALLER. This is for proper foot health and exercise.

Going to make myself some tea and look on Amazon for you.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:00 pm

PERCHES
Falling in the category of "random diameter", here's a neat perch: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liane-bird-perc ... uctDetails
Avoid ones like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kerbl-Wooden-Pe ... ords=perch
This is the sort of perch we use for the main perches. Ours are made of fir, with the bark still on. http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Range-Branc ... ords=perch
These are expensive, hard to clean, and very chewable. Still, they are softer underfoot and some birds really like them. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sisal-Zigzag-Pa ... parrot+toy

EXTRA NICE
There are several styles of feeders. I found these to be the easiest to use. They are available in a variety of sizes, so see them in person to select a size. I like those which are about four fingers in diameter for liquids, and about three fingers bigger for solids. If you feed seeds, be sure to use the bigger size so chaff doesn't bury the fresh seeds.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rosewood-Stainl ... =coop+cups
The hang-on style are easily dislodged and thrown about. The rotate-and lock style are annoying for the human in VERY short order. Only use them if your bird proves it can and will throw the others. Last resort. SO annoying.
You will certainly want a few of these for making kabobs of fresh foods, and also for building toys with blocks, beads, leather bits, etc. Cautions: Get only stainless steel, and make sure the stick screws into the top part. If you get the one with a screw-off nut at the bottom, Heisenbird will be unscrewing it and dumping the contents in no time. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fruit-Holder-En ... parrot+toy

TOYS
Here are toys that my bird is known to like, presented for your shopping or DIY inspiration. DIY is best, and less expensive. Also you have most control, not buying things your bird won't use, or being able to concentrate on things he loves. You WILL need to rotate, though, because birds get bored with stuff. I got tired of looking online, so certainly there are more. Maybe you get the idea. Northern Parrots seems to be a nice store?

One of these, in various weights, could be your best DIY toy friend.... be sure to get untreated & natural. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... ral%20jute
One of these is enough, or build something like it DIY. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ruff-Tumble-Bar ... parrot+toy
Things that may be appreciated, but quickly destroyed. There is concern about swallowing the bits of the little balls inside. Also, anything on the floor for long will get poopy.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/King`s-Roll-Rin ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Munch-Balls-Wov ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woven-Paper-Sti ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ruff-Tumble-Hip ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bird-Kabob-Mini ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colourful-Wood- ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Colourful-Wood- ... parrot+toy
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Natural-Chews-P ... parrot+toy
This was a huge hit until I left it in too long and he got tired of it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Happy-Pet-Treas ... parrot+toy
We don't have this, but I'm going to look for one right now!! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hide-`n`-Treat- ... parrot+toy
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:29 am

Miss K

Im off work today so, I'm gonna get on it!! Thank you for all the links, they all look super.

Abbi

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Donovan
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Donovan » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:26 am

Birds don't always handle change so well but they -do- adapt after a short time. Admittedly I have not read every word on this thread, but I did see the pictures. (Nice place btw) The old cage was practically sitting on the floor, and even the new one should be placed onto some kind of little table maybe.

Now as far as him being tamed before that may very be true. But now you have to start from scratch. The taming he received before becomes only a basic foundation and the rest is on you.

If the bird does not take treats from your hand then just hold a treat through the bars while you're just sitting there doing your normal thing. Don't look at him very much and don't even talk to him. Just sit there holding a peanut or something through the bars.

This requires having your bird cage right next to you. So you may need to rethink its permanent location. You may sit there a half hour before he even comes to terms with your hand being there. He may not take the treat. It might take a week of doing this before he works up the nerve to come to it. Eventually, he will take the treat, and when he does he'll have an epiphany that says, "hey this guy's not so bad"

Continue doing this until he gets better at it, taking things from you more readily. Eventually, assuming you're letting him out of his cage, if even to just explore the top of it, you can give him treats while outside. Again this may require just holding the treat a foot or two away while ignoring him, or it may not. It's up to him on that one. Let him walk over to you on his own terms.

This will all be more effective if his cage is not constantly being moved or rearranged.

Anyway, once it gets to where he will take treats from you outside the cage, it's time to up the ante. Try holding the treat just out of his reach, make him really stretch to get to it. Once he's used to it, back up another inch or so, so his only hope of getting the treat from the person he now trusts is to hop over to your hand to eat it.


Now on the cage subject, don't overload him with toys and perches. Change his one or two toys out every day or two.

Get a small wire or chain (make sure you know what it made of and determine if the material is safe) and try hanging up some cauliflower or peppers or a giant collard leaf, turn healthy food into chew toys.

I like to put at least one natural perch in the cage, an actual twig. This can be tricky to get the right size and shape.

Anyway, I may post a bit more later, i'm a bit pressed for time right now. Plus I should read more in the thread.

Abbi30
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:54 am

Donavan that sounds very sound advice. Thanks for the compliments on the place. I have bought some millet seeds maybe these would work well as keeping them held at a distance. We can't really move the cage around but we may sit by the cage more. We work from there now and gives him more close contact to us.

I will try giving him treats, announced and try your method of holding something for a while and see if his curiosity gets the best of him and he does turn up, i might make a false arm as not to lose mine in the process ; )

Yeah form the above threads i got the same point, a natural perch or set of perches and some toys to swap around.

How does everyone feel about mirrors, are they a good thing or not?

Abbi

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Donovan
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Donovan » Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:07 am

Mirrors are wonderful for indian ringnecks. If you want to put one in his cage put it somewhere he can see it and touch it, and make sure it's not somewhere that will force him to see himself all the time.

My bird has a different relationship with about 3 mirrors in the house. It makes them happy to look. No doubt someone will warn you about bonding issues but I wouldn't worry about it.

A while back I got him a hand held mirror, like a paddle, as soon as he saw me approaching him with it he went nuts, he knew I was bringing him a new mirror. He flew to me and climbing down my shirt and practically killing himself to get to see. As I was hanging it up he was all over my hands and the handle... very excited. So yes, get a mirror, get a couple of different kinds, change them out sometimes, and experiment with different locations.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:39 pm

Rocky has a little mirror. He talks to it once in a while and ignores it the rest of the time. Unless it causes trouble, I see no evidence that a mirror is not fine.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:46 pm

I have read that you should take down or cover wall mirrors when your bird is flying, but the mirrors in my LR do not bother my Alex hen and there are two, both wall mirrors, one behind her cage and by the door, she likes to bob to the one behind her cage but does not try and feed her image.

I am not keen on those little budgie type mirrors in the cage because the bird must be trying to work out where its image has gone as soon as it moves. It must be very frustrating for birds not to see their whole bodies, like trying to look at the world through a porthole! Sorry MissK and Donovan.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:07 pm

It's OK. Birds don't shave.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:47 am

Hey all.

As an update, sorry been away for a while and been busy with work. Heisenbird is getting on well. He's a lot more confident now, he's stopped 'freaking' out when we are close to his cage, he ventures in and out if there's any seeds around. He's taking on his diet well, fruit mainly (grapes, kiwis, apples, pomegranate and mango) not eating too much veg yet so don't know if I should worry, I'm giving him a mix of seeds every few days and some pellets on other days (but he's not having the pellets yet), any ideas about this would be good. His cage is nice and busy now (I'll put some new pics up when I'm on the laptop).
I was wondering what the next step would be to get him to eat from hand and then eventually getting him to 'step up' any ideas or would I be rushing it given he's just getting comfortable with us.

Thanks in advance

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:44 am

Abbi, so nice to hear from you and good news, too! I'm glad.

I would say keep the good food coming, Identify the favourite, and start offering that in small bits through the cage bars. See how it goes. Also, let people in the house feed each other in front of the bird and offer bits.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by Abbi30 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:34 am

Hey Miss K, thanks

Yep, already started feeding him pomegranate through the bars and he'll come and have it. Any other ideas on how to get him to eat from hand or stepping up?

Abbi

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:17 pm

If he will eat the pomegranate that you hold through the bars of the cage, the next step is to have him follow that food as you move it (just a little, be nice) along the outside. Once he follows that food lure solidly you start offering the food closer to the door, closer to the open door, at the edge of the open door, on the perch inside. Thus you build to feeding by hand from other locations than through the bars.

Stepping up -- I cheated, so maybe ask someone else. I can't tell you to do what I, myself, was unwilling to do. However, that would be using the food lure to entice him onto the hand/wrist/finger/stick. There was a certain amount of "testing" done by my bird that I was too wussy to continue. I trained a different bird to step up while he watched, and 30 days later he hopped on all by himself.
-MissK

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:16 pm

Abbi30 l think they will naturally step up, l offer my hand to my Alexandrin Hen and if she lifts a foot that means l can go closer and she will step up, if she looks at me as if l am daft then l wait for another time some times she decides this is a step too far and pins her eys and l know to get out double quick. Some people train their birds to step up when ever they comand, if that is what you want then search the forum.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:23 pm

AJ, I think your bird was second hand and may have learned to step up somewhere in her previous life.
:wink:
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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by AJPeter » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:37 pm

Yes of course MissK, you hold a good point there, but it was not something she did from the beginning, all l got for my efforts were bites, that is until Billie lifted a foot and placing my hand close to her she stepped up, If she had been trained she might only stepped on command "Step up" But even now that means nothing to her.

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Re: New owner. Heisenbird won't allow us to get close to him

Post by MissK » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:05 pm

We who keep the second hand birds will never really know for sure. I can say that for all Rocky will step onto my wrist (generally) when it is offered, he displays no understanding what "step up" means. He only hears these words when Ranechild visits. :lol: Still, she told me one time he actually said "step up" to her. He still sometimes comes out with words I never heard him say before, in the previous owner's gravelly speech. Unfortunately, I'm really bad understanding accents in general, so i don't understand. He's loud and clear on the one good word he learned from me ("What??")and I can tell sometimes he's working on "Perfect" and "Good Bird!!" in my voice.
-MissK

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