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A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

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InTheAir
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A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:20 pm

Hi guys,

I think it will benefit everyone greatly if AJ had his own thread to discuss his birds hormonal behaviour, it will be less confusing for it to all be in one place.

Please contribute what you know about looking after hormonal female birds in a house environment! I am sure links will be appreciated too.

I'm sure AJ will fill us in on his bird and the behaviour she is displaying in minute detail.

Regards,

Claire

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:36 pm

Well thank you Claire that is a really very nice gesture.
Billie rubs her privarte part on my arm by moving forward and back nudgng my finger or ear, she wags her tail as well as soon l spot this behaviour l put her back the cage. I explained this behaviour in Parrot Speak and Mellisa told me that l should not let Billie do this as she was trying to mate. This led me try and find out more information.
She rips up the papper on the floor of the cage so I changed the paper to sawdust but she uses her feet just like a dog and scatters sawdust all over my carpet tomorrow l shall try a telephone directory so see what a happens.
Of a night time l put the grid back in and when it is time to go sleep she will signal from the top perch that she is ready but as l cloak her cage with a fleece blanket she either tries to push the pegs off or attempts to bite my fingers, she hides in the dark in the lower half of the cage, so l cover her with another fleece blanket. Recently l have had the temperature at 75 but think l might try it a little cooler Billie might think it is still winter and not time to mate.
Diet is important and l am trying to redcue the protein. She only gets cooked chicken once a week, also carbs should be cut down the Link Claire gave me said that the female bird will lthink it is the time to breed with an abundance of food which leaves me wondering about Bilie's four food bowls, one for seeds (2 tablespoonfulls is hardly enough) in the morning there is very little left in her seed bowl. There is an oatmeal bowl . She gets a fruit bowl in the morning, a veg bowl late afternoons and a cooked food bowl in the evenings mostly this is off my plate but l bought her some curry noodles (3 mins on high) I also bought some Feather up.
You would laugh inside the canister is a teaspoon so l sprinkled a spoonful on her seeds and then read the instruction! I quickly poured her seeds away, Billie was annoyed as she was tucking in, and l put fresh seeds for her and gave a small pinch Feather up on her vegs.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:29 pm

I thought "Feather Up" was for moulters?, it is brilliant stuff though.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:10 pm

After the mating season comes the breeding season and this is followed by a moult. I thought l would be ready in advance and there are minerals in Feather up which seeds do not give.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:57 pm

AJPeter wrote:Diet is important and l am trying to redcue the protein. She only gets cooked chicken once a week, also carbs should be cut down the Link Claire gave me said that the female bird will lthink it is the time to breed with an abundance of food which leaves me wondering about Bilie's four food bowls, one for seeds (2 tablespoonfulls is hardly enough) in the morning there is very little left in her seed bowl. There is an oatmeal bowl . She gets a fruit bowl in the morning, a veg bowl late afternoons and a cooked food bowl in the evenings mostly this is off my plate but l bought her some curry noodles (3 mins on high) I also bought some Feather up.
Hi AJPeter

Advice that I was given relating to diet to discourage breeding behaviours by my avian vet was about reducing fatty foods and sugary foods. Reducing fatty foods for me has meant no seed in their cage (I still use the occasional sunflower seed as rewards) - I feed pellets and non sugary vegetables and seldom have fruit in their cage.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by MissK » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:29 pm

Regarding cooked and warm foods ~

My bird is male, and some things might get lost in translation, but I discovered this Fall that Rocky went into feeding mode only when I gave him warm mush food. I've never caught him trying to mate with anything, but he was very dedicated to feeding anything last Midwinter. When I withdrew the warm food (this Fall) he curtailed all feeding behaviour.

Perhaps it might do to withdraw cooked or hot food, anything mushy, and see if Billie responds.
-MissK

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:55 pm

MissK, thanks for adding that. Our vet suggested that warm, mushy foods are similar to regurgitated foods they would receive from their mate.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:04 pm

Thank you Missk and Ellie for your comments. It does look as if warm mushy food is a culprit because it is high on our agenda, Billie had tonight cooked swede, parsnip, turnip, potato, sweet peas, cabbage and egg noodles. I bought some curry flavoured noodles from Northern parrots and they stink, The noodles not Northen Parrots LOL, and l bought a lot more on my weekly shop.
I seem to remember MissK you have hens so you will be able to give me a heads up on this mating thing and l think Eillie you said you put wood chips in the cage or it might have been Skyes-crew. but l bought some from the pet shop last week and tipped a whole bale in. Billie dived in but it was not long before she kicking it out and of course it went all over the carpet. Soon there was more on my carpet then in the cage :shock:
Tomorrow is a big clean up day and l shall take most of it out and save it for a rainy day l might go back to news papers. Billie was ripping those up and the Avian web article said l should discourage her from making nests.
Now if l go out l put her into her cage. When l got back from the shops l did not get the welcome she usually gives me she looked depressed so l let her ride around on my shoulder as l put the groceries away. I went to make a coffee and she came down my arm and had a dip under the running tap. The water started to run hot and as l tried to move the faucet away she got an earful, becasue of the mess she makes with the wood chips l had to put the grid in early, and tonight she was sitting on her perch looking sad so slipped in an old telephone directory she swooped on it and tore a big hole in it she giving off delighted squeals.
I have managed to stop her flying to my as l play the organ she sits on the cage looking down the street , or boring holes in my back! But when l sit in the arm chair she flies to me and wants to sit on my shoulder and soon she is rubbing her self on me and of course l have to get up an put her back. She tries to sidle down the side of the cage and flies to the back of my chair and then slides down onto my shoulder and starts her thing again. So no more mushy warm food!
Also the fresh fruit bowl will have to go, pity becasue l have just bought a a whole load of fruits if l do not give her the sweet ones? Maybe that will be all right? We will wait and see.
In the pet shop today l bought some pellets and gave them to her she loved crunching them and might take to pellets.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:52 pm

Well things are a lot better today, Billie only tried to mate twice and she even sat on my shoulder without trying to mate. But the down side is l could not resist giving her two cooked sweet pea pods the first she dropped pretty quickly and then she managed to get on my arm from the cage and came down my arm pretty smartly as l got to the end of my dinner. I had to resort to hostilities as she grabbed some corned beef off my plate and the only to way to keep her quiet was to give in and let her have the last sweet pea pod, which she took back to her cage. She knew it was the last one so she ate it very slowly, she has such a sweet temperment that when l tried do take it away from her she just turned her head.
She wanted to be covered up at 6.30 pm but l told her it was too early but at 7 l covered her, and then for over an hour she was pulling the paper roll and ripping it up. So no cooked food tomorrow! Fingers crossed.
If she is about to lay an egg will she swell up? I thought tonight she is looking very fat.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:09 pm

Should have said that l think Billie is trying to regurgiate food. Does this mean the mating cycle is ending?
I told her "If you sick on me missy, l will sick on you."
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:10 pm

They do swell up before laying. I noticed it in the vent region. You should provide her with extra calcium at this time (e.g. Cuttlefish fish, calcium perch). What do breeders use Claire? Was it plaster-a-Paris?

Also, stay away from peas. When Janey was nesting she couldn't get enough of them. I hadn't realised they were sugary until then. Use less sugary veges. However if you think she is creating eggs you don't want to hold back anything, you want to give her everything to choose from so she gets the nutrients she needs.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:11 pm

Is she trying to regurgitate to you? If so, this is part of the mating behaviours. Unfortunately, not a sign it is ending.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:12 pm

After breeding season your bird will moult.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:20 pm

Well!, all I can say is, "Coo!"

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:30 pm

Thank you Ellie, no Billie is fat all over not just in the vent, and another good thing that happened today is that l made her a foot toy with Avi cakes and she loved it this is the first one she has had in 6 weeks.
Sweet peas are off the menu which is bad news as l have a fridge full of them. She has been nibbling the cuttkle fish bone l put up for her and for this reason l have taken the water based calcium out of her drinking water.
I offered her a shower under the kitchen tap again today but she declined, later she stood in her swimming pool she has not worked out yet how to use her wings to lift up the water like wild birds do.

Should l discourage her from regurguitation on me, Eliie?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:33 pm

Does Sanjay's mummi want any sweet peas?
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:03 pm

I think the calcium supplements you can buy from a pet store are sufficient, a high quality pellet supplimented with vegetables (the low sugar ones! ). If you have only one bird buying these things won't send you broke. . If you have 50 it's a different story.

I am more interested in prevention, so that's what I have read more about.

Personally, I would go visit my avian vet if my bird was in this situation and I had not already done a lot of research! A good avian vet will be able to explain the best diet to be feeding, the signs to watch for if something is going wrong and what you can do to reduce this behaviour at this stage.
They can also assess your birds health and weight. Overweight hens are more prone to reproductive problems and a lot of pet birds tend to be overweight.

Or find a good local breeder to talk to about diet. I'd go to the vet though, as they should know more about reducing breeding behaviour and a health assessment is important anyway.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:27 pm

Hey Peter...sorry I've been absent. Busy time of year.

My alexandrine boy has just now started mating behavior. He is only 8 months old so it wasn't expected at all. Thankfully he's taken up with one of his toys to regurgitate on and not me. I've done a bunch of research on foods related to mating behavior. It is my understanding that in the warm summer months wild alexandrines practice abundance feeding. Their foods will consist of fruits like guava and grains. They will continue these eating habits through early fall, packing on extra weight. Then their food consumption drops off for the females while they hunt for nesting sites. The males will continue to feed for themselves and for the females. So yes, warm mushy foods will simulate this time period. Having four feeding bowls causes out of season abundance feeding and extra weight gain. It's this extra weight gain that could be triggering her breeding drive. When a bird has to work for their food through foraging, it helps to maintain a steady weight. For my breeding birds, I add soaked almonds, and fruit to encourage breeding. So it only makes sense that to discourage breeding, you would cut back on the fat and sugar. Try sprouting seeds. I feed mung sprouts and sprouted pigeon feed. I only feed a couple of tablespoons of seed and raw vegetables. Now that my boy started the behaviors I'm working quick to change them myself. I would also start keeping the grate in on the bottom of the cage all the time. If you don't mind a bit of extra work, leave the bottom tray bare and just wash out the tray once a day. You can try a bowl of shavings, but that would be a last resort. I would take away all things nesting related. No stuffed animals, soft squishy toys, stringy toys. Give plenty of wood to chew, and add a bunch of foraging stations in which she gets all of her meals. Breeding birds also only bathe in the winter once they have or are about to lay eggs. They use their wet feathers to raise humidity levels in the nest. Take out the big bird bath and fill one of the smaller feed bowls with a small amount of water for preening. Unless she's gotten into something and her feathers are dirty, there is no need for her to bathe in the winter months. And finally, covering her. I cover 12-14 hours at night all year round. These are all ideas to help with the worst of the breeding behaviors. None of it is guaranteed to work, especially if Billie has a strong breeding drive. Just do your best :)
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:35 pm

Thanks Claire my avian vet is an hour by bus and a ten minute walk there and of course the same back. We have snow forcast in the next few days so the journey to the vet will have to wait , of course l could go by cab, but being a skinflint l would rather walk! She had me fooled becasue l looked again and she appeared sleek and not fat.
I wrote about Billie's beak but l see now from early photos she always had a thinning of the beak at the tip, then the beak was pink but now it is a plum colour. She has no difficulty picking out the seeds in a pomeganite. Or of drawing blood!
A visit to the vet will cost £55 plus fares, being on a pension makes one conscious of husbanding resources.
Prevention can save money in the long run and l am all for it, by the way is there anything on the forum about pet insurance?
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:59 pm

Thanks Melisa
It is winter here, but l did put up the room temp when l realised they like 75f which far too hot for me LOL when she shivers at 73 l put the temp up! I think l triggered this mating behaviour earlier when you wrote before about discouraging her. Both Ellie and MissK say that soft cooked mushy food encourages this mating behaviour l think if l can get that under control then things will improve. She fluffed up her feathers tonight and that gave me the inpression she was fat but l was thinking of weighing her, does any one know what the ideal weight should be?
I have taken to keeping Billie in her cage if l go out as there are too many places in my flat she could make a nest, l think the mirror will be a close second for regurgitation, lf not the leading contender. I will certainly review the four bowls one for seeds one for pellets and oats one for fresh veg, cabbage, brocoili, carrots, the fresh fruit bowl is now suspect as there are too many sweet fruits. Already she is throwing me dirty looks because l cut out her cooked food bowl.
She has become a real sweetie, allowing me to examine her feet, or beak but l keep my fingers away from rump under wing chest and neck , she likes a head screatch and will sit on my arm swooning back and forth while I keep my hand still.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:37 pm

Hi AJPeter

Yes, try to stop her from regurgitating to you, EVER! By regurgitating I mean the whole process, putting their digested food on you. My birds very occasionally will do the regurgitating motion around me but not actually bring up the food. Admittedly it's rare that they do that but my birds seem to know it's not appropriate to feed me.

With the weight thing, it is really hard to tell unless you feel their body or weigh them. I found an Alexandrine last year and I thought he was quite fat but the get said he was extremely underweight. It was just how he had his feathers fluffed. Regarding ideal weight, your vet may be able to help but the best thing to do other than that is to keep records over time to see fluctuations.

I agree with all other advice given. It would be good if someone could give you a lift to the vet. Are their any community services you could use? In Australia we have some for retired people.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:17 pm

Hi AJ, I adore sweet pea flowers!, but I think you mean garden peas, I have tried Sanjay on garden peas, but he throws them overboard, he prefers broad beans.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:38 pm

Billie has not regurgitated anything on me yet, but she was lowering her head and appeared to be coughing but l think my warning hit home. As for her weight she likes to pretend she is cold and will fluff her feathers so she looks bigger than she is , as for a lift to the vet a friend said he would take me but Billie went into the cat box today with no problems, just walked in, there was some newspaper in there and she spent a happy 10 minutes ripping it up before l pulled it away from her. I closed the door of the box and took her out into the garden and down the path this is the first time she has been outside since August. I looked into the box and she quite unphased just sat there looking out.
A gentelman came this morning and she did not look too happy so l did not let her out and then a lady came this afternoon with some bead necklaces, and l let Bilie out, and she took the necklaces and when l held my hand under her beak she dropped them into my hand. This lady sat in my chair and l sat on the sofa Billie flew across the room to my shoulder and climbed down the back of the sofa and disappeared so l picked her up and she sat one of the cushons but soon started to look behind them , so she IS looking for a nest!
Billie had a bad day though, l took all the paper out of her cage and just left the bare boards of the plastic tray, she was scrabbling around in there all afternoon, at times she just sat on the plastic tray with her beak resting on the tray and her eyes closed. This is quite truamatic for her. As soon as a I put the grid in she calmed down considerably.
She was pretty upset there was no soft cooked mushy food, in fact no cooked food, and she got none from my plate either.
I have cut out the fruit bowl because most of that is sweet , MissK will be amused as l have been tasting all Billie's fruit and veg to make sure it is not sweet. She has a roll of paper hanging up and pulls at this even at night since the roll cost £3 it will not get replaced too quickly.
I shall glad when this is all over, and to think it will happen again next year gives me the creeps. LOL.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:42 pm

Do you mean uncooked broad beans for Sanjay? I have not tried those on Billie. I might buy some frozen ones or l could buy fresh in their pods and see how Billie copes with that.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:47 pm

We do have community services for old people but you have to one of the walking dead before they allow you on their buses.
It's called Ring and Ride but with the cut backs it might get axed and in any case l do not want to use it as their buses are full of old people. LOL
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:19 pm

Frozen broad beans, defrosted and cooked, then cooled. Wots all this about old folk and buses?, do they all turn up at once?. :lol:

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:22 pm

Aj,
Learning as much as you can from this season and about steps to reduce breeding behavior will probably help you learn to avoid such a strong season next year.

It will probably provide you with some strong incentive to learn too! Having a parrot redesigning your furniture into nesting spots is certainly a good motivation to avoid the nesting phase as much as you can!

Also be very aware that she does not know electrical cords are not safe to chew. I believe Ellies bird had a close call with one when she was trying to make a nest. Luckily for them, it only damaged the appliance involved and the bird was fine! :wink:

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:35 am

AJPeter - I'm pretty sure the reason she was happy to go in the cat box was because it is a potential nest. Mixing up her environment like you have been is good. I'm glad she hasn't actually regurgitated on you yet. My recommendation would be to put her down every time she looks like she wants to try it, wait a couple of minutes then pick her up again.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:31 pm

I think you are right Ellie it is dark in the cat box and she spent a happy few minuites ripping up paper but for me everytime she goes into the box with a favourable reaction is good for the future especially as l took her out of the house in it, she did not seem to be worried. She has not gone in the cat box today. She flew to the back of my chair and was eyeing up the sofa so l shall have to watch her, she does not seem to be prone to chew things other than my pullover and shirt.
She was trying to regurgitate in front of the mirror today and there were a couple of times she just sat on my shoulder with out trying to mate, once for ten minutes. But there were a couple of times when she did want to mate and l quickly put her back on her cage.
What l found very intersting tonight is that she has paper roll hanging up and she spent an hour last night after l covered her ripping paper up and spreading it evenly over the floor despite the grid stopping her getting down. Tonight an hour before l covered her up l gave her a Telephone directory and she had a ripping good time. Then l covered her up and she was banging arouind with the paper roll so much lt took it out and after a few minutes it all went quiet.
So the moral of all this is that if it is there she will make hay and it isn't it does not bother her.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:59 pm

I thought l would post a separate reply for Claire. I truly hope next year will be a doddle, it is about now we have the shortest day so spring is just round the corner but l think all this breeding season lark is a new to Billie as it is to me, she sits in the corner with her tail up the cage side and her beak on the floor and cries. I think it is frustration. Or egg laying
(hope not). She misses the cooked food and now l have stopped giving her sweet fruit, just apple. And she has vegeatbles, carrots, cabbage, brocoli.
LOL she eats like a horse l give her two tablespoonfuls of seed and pellets she eats all the seed and cries while standing at her bowl. l say to her "There is plenty left." But l give in and pour some more seeds in. She has a serparate bowl for pellets and as l thought the water bottle was not giving water on demand l put some water in one of her bowls. But l saw it was working tonight.
Parrots are not the only pets to have bad breeding seasons, l can remember a male cat that sprayed everywhere however back to the future, I am hoping the moult will begin soon and then the breeding season will be over. I had a surpise visitor today a gentleman l had not seen for 5 years and we had a lot to talk about but first l closed one side of the top of Billie's cage down and asked her to step and the as l put her on her perch l closed the front door. She was very good. I did try and show her off to my friend by opnning the door but she had a glint in her eye. I do not think she likes males.
I do think it is advisable to watch her closely when she is out of her cage as in trying to find a nesting spot she might be tempted to go somewhere a lot of electrical cables are hiding, they like dark places too.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:33 pm

No the buses are always late and the old people? Still l prefer shank's pony as transport. As for borad beans cooked cannot give Billie cooked food at the moemnt as it resembles regurgitated food.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:12 am

I'm not expert, but I think what was meant by cooked foods is anything warm or mashed. Basically anything that would be similar to regurgitated food a male bird would present.
I doubt broadbeans that are cooked properly would be a problem.

Did you read the article by Pamela Clark that I linked for you? It is quite a lot more in depth than the other one and very useful. Also if you search the Internet, you will find a lot more information. Apart from Ellie, I don't know that anyone who regularly posts on this forum have much experience on this behaviour in house pets.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:16 am

Broad beans have a membrane, they dont go mushy, and if they are cold?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:53 pm

I have read the article by Pamela Clark Claire a few times but today l printed it for easy reference. I think l make msitakes which cause problems for Billie, like today she was on the upper perch swooning in front of the mirror and l reached across and scratched her head. She came down and flew to my shoulder and l gave her another neck scratch, it would seem to me that l should avoid contact if at all possible. She flew to me as a played the organ something she has not done for some time but l put her back on the cage. She climbed down onto the table and went into the cat box it is dark in there and paper inside she started to rip up. I closed the cat box and we went outside and we visited a neighbour who lives about 200 yards away. Billie was little woried but l think she enjoyed the trip. I then hid the cat box in another room.

This afternoon she constantly wanted to come to me as l watched TV and put her beak on my cheek or in my ear and l put her back each time l thought we were moving on from that. She flew around quite a bit and seemed to be looking for nesting spots. I took out the roll of paper hanging up in her cage and when she wanted to be covered up she banged around with some of her toys and then it went quiet. The grid was in. Tomorrow l hope to stick to my resolution not to touch her so often, to avoid mushy cooked foods, to discourage her from flying to me.

By the way l tried to weigh her yesterday and today while l gave her a head scratch l craftily wrapped a towel around her and picked her and put on the scales she just stood there and weighed in at 265 grams. She has big bones!

I think we are making perogress

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:57 pm

Thank you Sanjays Mummi l will buy some broad bean the next vist to the supermarket, can you suggest any non sweet fruit l can buy? Are pomegranites sweet? Billie gets Brocoli carrots, cabbage, she likes it cut up small.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:58 pm

Fresh figs, passion fruit, and pomegranates are not really sweet, then there are the citrus fruits, lemon and lime, as oranges Can be. Sanjay likes kiwi fruit they're a bit on the sharp side if they're not over ripe.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:02 pm

sanjays mummi wrote:Fresh figs, passion fruit, and pomegranates are not really sweet, then there are the citrus fruits, lemon and lime, as oranges Can be. Sanjay likes kiwi fruit they're a bit on the sharp side if they're not over ripe.
Thank you Sanjay's mummi for that info l have already found Biile does not like Kiwi fruit but her taste changes all the time,

We have had 3 power cuts tonight the first time in living memory at least 20 years ago,

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:13 pm

Just a quick up date I put Billie was in when, l went to church but she was quiclky up to her old tricks trying to mate with me after l got home each time l put her back on the cage but the last time l was so annoyed l lost my temper and swept my hand across my shoulder and she was forced to fly back to her cage.
About 15 minutes later she flew back to my shoulder and was as good as gold, later she flew to the back of my chair and did not want to be lifted down but made gupling noises behind my head, but no regurgitatin thank goodness. I left her out when l made dinner and went back to check she was alright quite often but after l had put her to bed l noticed that an ornamental butterfly clipped to a lamp above the sofa had been knock out of position so she is still looking for a nesting site, but without my knowing.
No paper in her cage and no cat box, but l did put some wood chips on the cage floor. Can the moult be any worse than this?
We shall have to wait and see.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:20 pm

She likes cooked broad beans.

Today has been different and better only once did she try the mating ploy but l took her into the office and she dived for a cubby hole l was a bit worried she would fall down the hole at the back and so l put my hand in and she was quite happy to come out, lets hope the mating thing is behind us and now we have to discourage nesting.

Billie and I wish you all a Happy Christmas and may all your troubles not have feathers/

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:52 am

sanjays mummi wrote:Fresh figs, passion fruit, and pomegranates are not really sweet, then there are the citrus fruits, lemon and lime, as oranges Can be. Sanjay likes kiwi fruit they're a bit on the sharp side if they're not over ripe.
I'm pretty certain that passion fruit is high in sugar. I train some Alexandrines and they LOVE passion fruit. I'd be really surprised if they weren't high in sugar? I think all/most fruits would be high in sugar. I wonder if there is a reference site for sugar content of fruit and veg?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:40 pm

If there is Ellie please let me know. Billie has been the same today over sexed and over here, if l pulled some of her feathers out would that stat a moult? I put too much wood sawdust in and she scarttered it all over the floor. She had a good spray this morning but turned her nose up at a bath/
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:30 pm

I have been unable to find such a site, but I am looking from my phone which is never the best device to search on. I have found nutritional breakdowns for human foods, that may be useful but are very time consuming to go through.
I have read that berries are fairly low on sugar.
If she is eating a good brand of maintance pellets, she will be able to stay healthy with out the addition ofmuch fruit over breeding season. Keep offering her lots of vegetables though, as life on a pellet only diet would be far too boring to contemplate!
Peas and corn are best avoided too.

All the advice I have read on the subject discorages adding nesting material, but it is your choice.


Merry Christmas everyone!

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:23 pm

InTheAir wrote: I have read that berries are fairly low on sugar.
If she is eating a good brand of maintance pellets, she will be able to stay healthy with out the addition ofmuch fruit over breeding season. Keep offering her lots of vegetables though, as life on a pellet only diet would be far too boring to contemplate!
Peas and corn are best avoided too.

All the advice I have read on the subject discorages adding nesting material, but it is your choice.


Merry Christmas everyone!
Thanks Claire, any black or red friut is out. I offered her some blackberiies from the hedgerow in August and she refused to eat them also red and black grapes only white will she eat and of course now she only gets two a day. She won't eat strawbrerries picks them up catches my atttention and drops them. Melisa recommended that l put nothing in the bottom tray but l do not like a bare tray so add just a little sawdust where she poops.

Sanjay's mummi recomended broad beans and she eats them also runner beans, l bought a whole load of noodles but am holding off on those at the moment. she gets a sweet pea pod raw but no corn.

I need to finds some low sugar fruits. l give her apple and pear, pommeganite seeds, and two grapes. She won't eat pellets and would rather starve but l put them out for her in the hope she will like them. She gets two Tablespoons of seeds and eats the lot, she is there at the front of the queue when l open hte gate to put her seed bowl in and grabs the bar to close the gate door more quickly. Also some egg stuff and extra seeds as it is Christmas.

Is it alright to dig around in the back posts that did not receice much attention a year or two ago?

And wishing you a happy new year.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:09 pm

Pulling her feathers out will not bring on a moult. Moults are triggered by seasons. I believe you can try to trigger an end of season with UV lights but I've never done it.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:58 pm

Only kidding Ellie, but something happened today which makes me think Billie is moving towards a moult, she was standing in her bathing water up to her waist and the water had gone cold, l used one of the spray guns with cold water to gently spray her and she just stood there getting wet. I thought she was scratching before she got into the water.

She has been very good all day just sitting on my shoulder and made no attempt to mate although this did not last after the bath she did a bit of preening and then flew to my shoulder and l had to return her to the cage becasue she was trying to mate. Near bed time she was making quite a lot of noise l thought she wanted to be covered up but when l put the blanket on the cage she was pacing up and down so l took the hint and let her out and for twn minutes she sat on top of the cage preening but then went in and was quite happy to be covered.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:26 pm

Sanjay paced a lot when he had smaller cages, now he can actually fly inside his cage, the pacing has stopped. I thread all his fruit and veg on to bamboo skewers and keep them from dropping off with a clothes peg, then use another peg to clip them to his ceiling. This way, he can really forage for the seeds in his peppers etc, I also halve a small melon or papaya, and put half in his bowl, he likes to pick the seeds out and crack them. If you go to an Asian market stall, look for Bitter Melon, and prickly pear, also Dragon Fruit, they are not in season at the moment, but you can get bitter melon all the year round.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:40 pm

AJPeter wrote:Only kidding Ellie, but something happened today which makes me think Billie is moving towards a moult, she was standing in her bathing water up to her waist and the water had gone cold, l used one of the spray guns with cold water to gently spray her and she just stood there getting wet. I thought she was scratching before she got into the water.
Sorry about that. I did hope you were kidding :lol: It's always kinda hard to know on here when people are joking because you can't see facial expressions. :)

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:06 pm

I am the great joker, hope to make poeple laugh always best to take a pinch of salt with anything l say hope not to cause a fence, could be a wall.

Unfortunately Billie is back to her old tricks water wings on the back burner, she head butts me but does not rub herself on me but never the less l stop her.

There are so many treat for her and for me it is difficult trying to work out what she is eating.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:17 pm

Thank you Sanjya's mummi for you posts, Billie's cage is too small for her but just the right size for my living room. It is all right if l take the grid out and open the top.

My supermarket has a big section for Asian foods l will have a look, but the best place to go are the markets in Birmingham town centre. Thanks for the tips l shall look out for Bitter melon.


Also for Claire Billie had a raspberry which she quite enjoyed but she does not like stawberries.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AlphaWolf » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:39 pm

AJ, I think there are tons of asian supermarkets in small heath. In coventry road. They sell all kind of fruits/veggies. You probably will have more luck there.
"Live with parrots and you learn to panic"

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:14 pm

Soho road might be easier for me AlphaWolf as llive just round the corner in Wellington road, however l know Small Heath area and Coventry Road as l used to live over there, but now l remember the Asian super market at Perry Barr.

Billie can twist me around her little finger and because she begs for food l have to eat my porridge in the kitchen. She had some cooked chicken tonight and ate most of it but shredded the remainder and was using it as cement l thnk she has grand designs on a semi in my BR

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:05 pm

Billie scratches her feet like a dog on the plastic tray there is only her water bowl and bits of food she has turfed out from her feeding bowls, and bits from a foraging bucket l bought from Northen Parrots. I clean the plastic tray every day and make sure her water bottle is working. When she sits on my shoulder she still butts me gently in my ear which l think is part of the mating ritual and l stop her quickly. She has not stood in the water for a couple of days, and is not interested in a spray. When she is scrabbling around on the tray she will sometimes give let off a wail, sounds like frustration.
When she steps down from my shoulder she likes to put her beak on the cage before moving her feet but is she is in my hand she likes my hand to be lower than the cage so she steps up.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:25 pm

I gave Biillie a card board box today and she had great fun shredding it, she was sitting in the mess and l told her "That is not a very good nest!"
she replied "You are joking, this is a carpet!"
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:37 pm

Went shopping today forgot the things l need most and will have to go again tomorrow but saw in Asda some Dragon fruit, gave Billie some and she turned her nose up at , also Kiwi fruit maybe its an acquired taste`but there is so much l want to give her that she nows has fruit bowl and a veg bowl a tthe same time
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:03 pm

It will be trial and error for a while, there are things Sanjay wouldnt touch at one time, he seems to have "grown into"

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:23 pm

Well Sanjays Mummi it is cigars all round as l am now a daddy, Billie laid an egg last night, l was quite amazed at how big it was almost the size of a pullets egg. There it was in the cage it looked dirty so l picked it up to wash and and dsicovered the shell was broken, it was quite cold. So l got rid of it in the bin.

Bille has been quite diiferent today several times she just sat on my shoulder with her eyes closed, she is eating well but l noticed her vent was t dirty, which may have been the figs l gave l know figs give me the runs maybe she too so l towelled her and with some cotton buds already in warm water l cleaned her up.

There was no blood and her cloaca was moist but l did not want to delve any further. So put her back in her feet. She had a couple of searches for the egg but it does not seem to have bothered her, maybe she is an old hand at egg laying.

What l want to know will there be any more and how many? And does this mean the end of the breeding season?

Billie eating habits are changing all the time she leaps on a cheastnut but totally ignores grapes, l htink l must reduce what l put in her bowl as the choice is to many,

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:05 pm

Well, if Sanjay lays an egg I will know for definite what gender he is!, the jury is still out. :roll: :roll:

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:10 pm

Well if Sanjay does lay an egg then she is a female and if he does not then hs is a male, unless he is ***!
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:30 am

I think you have skipped over daddy to grand daddy :wink: poor Billie...she must be feeling pretty wiped out. Since she has gotten to the point where she has laid an egg...make sure she gets plenty of food to build up her strength again. Hopefully she stops at the one. If she does lay another, leave it with her if it is not cracked. Let her abandon it on her own. Lots of love to Billie
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:42 am

Ah! For some reason notifications are not getting through but it is good to hear from you l have just sent an email to you thinking l might have been dropped form the forum as l have had no notification of replies since November.
I have to take Billie to the Vets this afternoon a friend is going to give me a lift, Billie's vent was soiled yesterday so l tried to clean it with warm water and a cotton bud but today her abdomen is swollen and there are no feathers around the vent.
She seems to be in good health eating well poops are a bit heavy and not much urine, yesterday and today she sat on my shoulder and just cloesed her eyes l think the egg laying has sapped her energy. The egg was huge almost as big as her head!
She allows me to towel her and turn her over without struggling becasue she is a darling.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:53 am

Sounds like another egg on the way possibly. Just keep her quiet and calm. Was the egg fully formed...not soft or dented anywhere?
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:49 pm

The egg she laid was huge and was white it was sticky when l picked it up and then l noticed it was cracked so threw it away. As far as l could tell it looked normal although l think there was a blemish on it, the vet today said that Billie was about to lay another egg and l think that is why her abdomen was swollen. If Billie does not lay tonight the vet wants me to phone tomorrow, it was hugely expensive £58.30 which included some oral calcium for £3.30 and advice on pellets. Would it be harmful if l waited another day?
A friend of mine gave me a lift in his car and we were there in 15 minutes, Billie was very good in the cat box. But when we arrived they had an emergency and we had to wait for ages.
The vet said Billie had a respiratory problems and it would cost £230 for xray and treament but if it was clymidia l could catch it. But they coukld do a blood test for £28.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:06 pm

Chlamydia? isnt that human problem? this is all new to me, how old is Billie?, I am wondering if Sanjay has not laid an egg because he/she is too young?, aww dear, I DO hope Billie is better soon, :|

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:20 pm

The vet said something about red eye and that it would clear up but l have left Billie in a warm dark room while l freeze in here. The vert said lweave beeding material for her and hope she lays an egg tonight and if not phone tomorrow but it coast £58 for a consultation. Still no use crossing bridges before l come to them.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:30 pm

Chlamydia in parrots is also known as psittacosis or parrot fever. The vet I use always tests for it in new bird appointments, it is contagious to humans as well as parrots and can be quite bad. Get the blood tests done!

There are many things that can go wrong with egg laying, especially in a less than healthy bird. Please take the advice of your vet. If your bird does not successfully pass the egg, waiting another day before you visit the vet can be fatal, at best it could just lead to more complications which will probably contribute to the bill.

Umm and your bill was not too bad, Sapphires new bird check cost almost 4 times that to find out she is a healthy bird. Nilas was double Sapphires bill, to find out he had elevated cholesterol levels... :wink:

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:44 pm

Peter...you can catch it...and at your age it would manifest as pneumonia. Please get Billie tested and get yourself tested as well. In the meantime wash your hands after touching anything of billies and boost your vitamin C intake. See if you can get some echinacea drops also. Good luck to you both.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:50 pm

Claire and Melisa many thanks for your warnings, I can also put the bill on my credit card. If Billie passes the egg, l will phone for an appointment tommorow for the xrays next week but if she does not then l shall try and get the tests done tomorrow. Of course she has to to be xrayed and then the vet can see what to do.
Notifications are coming through now so that is one less hurdle.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:08 pm

Thank you Sanjays mummi both Intheair and Skyes-crew recomned l take the test for both Billie and me l can always put the cost on my credit card. I think Billie is 3 or 4 years old. It is now that l regret not taking out pet insurance which h wuld have cost £60 pa and coverered £1000 plus in vet bills.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:17 pm

You have to laugh LOL here l advise people to take samples of poop to the vets and l completely forgot to take any of Billie's poop especially as it had been rather sticky lately

Now of course being the hypochrondriac l keep thinklng that what ever Billie has got then l have got it too,

I would like roses

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:16 pm

With as much as you've done for Billie...you deserve roses :D
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:28 am

Good, thank you.
So the good news is Billie laid another egg last night, when l first looked at it l thought the egg was intact but later l saw one end had broken away. Could Billie have attacked it? She had built a tower with large plastic triangles a conker (Horse chestnut) from last year which had gone rock hard and when fresh is supposed to deter spiders, the wicker basket she stripped into bits; some news paper l had put in and sawdust it was about an inch high and the egg was balanced on top.

So now l have cleared all that away given the cage a clean but will give it a thorough clean tomorrow, the itchy red eye Billie took away from the vets has cleared up.

I have booked her in for a full (£230) Chlamidia test 14th January l am sure my friend will take me in his car but l shall have to leave her at the vets all day. I have made enquiries about bird insurance and cover of £2500 in vets fees will cost £80 pa but it will have to start a month after the all clear.

OOPs! Ishall have to get a move on l am due at the church for the computer club and choir practice at 11 am

Thank you all for your concern

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:33 am

She may have tried to move it to her makeshift nest and it fell or she passed the egg while perched and it fell down. Either way, I am very glad she is doing ok.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:04 pm

It may be worth ordering some dummy eggs for Billy. If you remove her eggs because they are cracked she will probably keep laying to replace them.
In a normal breeding situation the hen will lay an egg every day or every other day and starts sitting on them after she has laid the last one.
Laying eggs is hard work for the hen, especially when they are not in top shape.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:26 pm

I have not seen any dummy eggs do you know where l could get some?

I found some white peppermints but they wecame sticky maybe she was licking them becasue she loves peppermint and will spend half an hour or more trying to chip a sugar free polo mint. There is a wooden ball from a necklace which l leave in and also some conkers which are about egg size.

She wanted to be covered up quite early tonight but l made her wait until 6.45 and then she started construction of a replica NYGrand central but about 8.30 it went quite so l came in here.

I am not expecting her to lay tonight but l left nest material in case, l crumpled a newspaper earlier and she was intrigued kept reaching down form a perch and pushing it to see if she could stand on it. I also left her bath water in although it will be pretty cold.

Her vent area is still soiled bu she was preening down there earlier, no sign of a moult, if she lays a last egg and then sits on it would that in the morning?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:38 pm

Peter...these are dummy eggs...

http://www.dummyeggs.com/

If the egg is only cracked but not broken open, leave it with Billie.

If you do decide to order some, measure her egg and order ones as close to her size as possible.

Normally birds will lay one egg every 48-60 hours
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:05 pm

Thank you for that, I shall keep the link and measure the next egg. The first egg was cracked and l could have left it with her but the second the top was completelly off which led me to think she had opened herself but the next one l will leave with her. I do like to keep the cage as clean as possilbe.
I have just gone in to where her cage is becasue some idiot outside was making bird calls, and l discovered l had turned the gas fire down too low and the gas does not burn propperly and smells, so l turned up the fire and called to Billie but she did not answer so l ifted the blanket and she was on the top perch and very annoyed l had disturbed her.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:10 pm

Aj: Do you have a good library near you? It may benefit you to get a couple books on parrots and their reproductive cycle.
I'm on the other side of the world in a subtropical climate, so I don't really know much about the breeding season where you are. Also, personally I have very little interest in breeding birds, so I have not done a lot of study on it.
Over here the egg laying season seems to start in July for the early birds, the hen then incubates the eggs after she has laid her full clutch. After incubation the eggs hatch, the parent birds raise the babies, the babies seem to wean at about 12 + weeks. After that the parent birds start their moult. By the time the parents moult it is late spring/early summer.

I sure Melissa will fill in the gaps, make corrections etc and add the incubation time as I can't remember.

It is recommended that pet parrots be allowed to keep their eggs until they stop sitting on them.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:39 pm

Thank you Claire, you are on the other side of the world Melisa is half way in Hawaii yes we do have libraries but l am not a good reader lf l read one book a year it will have been a very good year at the moment l am struggling with Don't shoot the dog MissK recommended that.
All Billie's eggs are infertile but if any hatch out l would have a heart attack. I sorta have this idea that if you ignore a problem for long enough it will go away. The two eggs Billie laid were cold so she has not been sitting on them.

To think this all going to happen next year! But at least l have been forwarned!

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:13 pm

I've mentioned this twice already today, the hen will not start sitting on the eggs until she had finished laying as many as she is going to lay.

The reason I am trying to explain this to you is that Billy does not know her eggs are infertile, she will behave like they are fertile. Therefore if you have a good understanding of where she is at, you will be able to act appropriately.

If you keep removing them she will keep laying. THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR HER.

Next year, if you implement all the steps for reducing hormonal behaviour, you may be able to avoid the egg laying.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:12 pm

Claire if the shell is broken and yolk and white are on the cage floor are you advocting that l leave the egg alone?

I am a bit dyslexic l don't always read what l see and sometiems letters are inverted when l type, but l hope you will perservere with me.

kind regards

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:35 pm

No. That is why I have recommended you use dummy eggs. You will have to search for a local supplier yourself. Your vet may know where to get them. Or try a Google search.

Situations like this are the reason I advocate anyone who gets a parrot should research as much as they can before they start running into problems!

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:24 pm

Ok...everyone calm down lol. A broken egg of course has to be removed. A dummy egg would be a good idea for situations like that. Peter, Billie, is laying eggs because her body is telling her to. She has no way of knowing as Claire has said that her eggs are infertile. But, it is natures way to replace what is lost. So when one egg is removed or damaged, she will produce another. This is very taxing on her body. It can quickly deplete her stores of calcium if it is allowed to continue. Please supply her with cuttle and crushed oyster and plenty of dark green leafy veggies. Cook some lentils and corn and offer that to her. We are beyond the no cooked food rule. Keep her as warm as possible. Put a shoe box in the bottom of her cage with some pine shavings or a cotton towel. She will rearrange it how she sees fit. Once it seems as if she's done laying, let her sit for as long as she wants. Usually they will abandon the nest after 3-4 weeks. Then we can talk about next year :D
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:20 pm

Chicken tonight. Billie laid an egg day one and day three tonight it is day five. We have done everything possible to make sure the egg has has a safe landing, l have been handing in bedding material and she has been ripping it up, l removed her bath water and tray this afternoon, all she has on the floor is tons of ripped up newspapers and extra wood chips. I hung up some camomile hay.

She has been scoffing seeds and for the first time ate a lot of pellets. She ate a lot of fruit this morning including pomegranite seeds, l took that out tea time and put in a bowl of green vegs including cabbage. She has been chipping away at the cuttle fish bone and l gave her some extra dipped in water which she likes. Quite often she drinks her bathing water so l put some liquid calcium in that, the vet said she was low on calcium and gave her an injection.

The vet said that Millet spray harbours mites that are bad for her so l have thrown out all the millet spray.

My flat is quite small one bedroom and l have nothing like a shoe box but l shall keep a look out.

The next egg she lays Melisa l will measure and order some from "Dummy egg" unless l find something more local. Would she know the difference between brown and white? I have a load of old conkers that are brown and rock hard. The pet shop has crushed oyster shell l will get some monday. Would noodles be any good as l have quite a lot of dried egg noodles.

They do say a little knowledge is dangerous Claire and l hold a City of London diploma for Animal Husbandy and Pet shop management and l have bred rats. And because of handling animals in the pet shop when Billie was abandoned last year and was sitting on the end of cat box that was being waved by a neighbour Billie came up my arm as l put my hand out.
I have read a little, used my judgement and found l was out of my depth and have been greatly encouraged by you, Melisa, MissK, and Ellie and if l knew then what l know now l would not have walked away but have taken better care of Billie.

Billie goes back to the vets for a chlamydois ( l think that was the word) test on January 14th, xray, and medicine it will cost £230 but so be it, and if her condition worsens over the next few days l will be able to take her to the vets and pay another £59 consultation fee. But what the hell you cannot take it with you. :D

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:34 pm

Sometimes pet insurance can be tricky, we always put insurance via the kennel Club on our litters, to cover any mishaps in the first few months of new ownership, but some companies will not pay out the full amount, they expect you to pay it all up front, and then quibble, and only pay a fraction of what THEY think is correct. Better to have a Billie piggy bank, Sanjay has one, and it is his pin money for emergencies. If you buy "Parrots" magazine, due out on or around the 21st of each month, there are companies advertised which do parrot pet insurance. Personally I tend to distrust pet insurance.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:49 pm

Oh l agree with you Sanjays muumi if you have it you never need it and if you don't have it youneed it all the time. 20 years ago l took out hospital insurance paid my premimums waited to claim £50,000 and have never claimed!

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:09 pm

Peter...I would go to the market...find the smallest chicken eggs you can and boil one or two of them and let them cool completely. Then stick them in billies nest. Try to keep the length of the egg under two inches. The average Alex egg is about 1 1/3 inches long.

Egg noodles are a good food to feed as well as crumbled hard boiled egg, sweet potatoes, and cooked peas. You're doing great :D
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:40 pm

The good news is that Yes we have no eggs today, well last night, What an anticlimax, Billie ripped up three newspapers scattered wood chip all over my carpet l hate to tell you where the straw ended up, but each piece has to picked up by hand as the vacuum cleaner refuses to touch it, this morning l thought it best to leave the tray alone but after l got back form church l could not stand the mess any more so cleaned it all up and no egg, broken or otherwsie!

And looking at her abdomen l think is unlikely we shall see one tomorrow, she was almost back to her old self today, and tuesday is normally shopping day so if everything stays as it today then l shall not rush out tomorrow. Tonight Billy ripped up the paper l put in the tray and l added a sheet for her to rip up. But no wood chips or straw. I cooked some chicken for her tonight but she took on look and said no thank you. She had her own bowl for some shepherd pie and veg but she wanted to get on my plate for the choicest items.

It was the same for breakfast which l have about 2 pm. I like my porridge extra sweet so ladle in golden syrup and a spoonful of sugar so when she decided she wanted some l managed to keep her way until l had nearly finshed and then she grabbed a beakfull, she has been through hell and high water.

It amazed me how she knows it is 7 pm and wants to be covered up, l mange to watch tv for an hour with the sound turned down and light on low but she still bangs around and moans so l leave her to it at 8 pm.

She is beginnig to eat more pellets, mainly because the seed bowl ran out, and she was tucking into the fruit bowl today.

Does all this mean we have given up laying eggs for this year?

Too early to tell

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:45 pm

I think Billie has given up the egg laying for now. For this year??? I have no idea. Lets wait and see what Billie has in mind. :D
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:51 pm

I have just ordered some dummy eggs from Amazon hope to get them next week 1.5" made of plaster.

She is not keen on the egg suplement so l will buy some small eggs and cook them for her how many a week? 3 for her and 3 for me sounds about right. Do you think she would like soldiers?

Okay Billie it up to you now. But l will put the dummy eggs in when they arrive to see what you think after all you might restart laying.

Is there anything l have forgotten to do?

Thank you Melisa and Claire for your help at this difficult time,

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:30 pm

I think 3 might be too much. Hard boil one and mix in some crushed crackers with it and just spoon a little in with her food. Too much protein is just as bad as not enough. So maybe keep the eggs and chicken to once or twice a week.

The dummy eggs will be good. It will give her something to do besides laying. :D
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:48 am

Hi AJPeter

I'm just reading through all of this now as I'm on holidays. So sorry to hear you've had so many dramas. I hope you and Billie are both okay.

Best wishes.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:41 am

You can buy egg biscuita, and canary seed and bars have egg added, it might be more convenient for you?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:21 pm

How d'ya like your egg in the morning?

Billie laid a lovely white egg last night l carefully skirted round it when l cleaned the cage, later l found a nice felt lined metal cuff link box and put the egg in there with some sawdust. But when l covered her up tonight she was scrabbling around in her cage so lifted the covers and she was inside the box trying to get her egg out so l got rid of the box and left the egg on the hard shoulder.

I went shopping today to get a small egg l tried 6 different shops but none of them had small eggs, so l shall be looking tomorrow when l do my main shop. I ended with a hair cut.

Yes thank you Sanjays mummi l will try out that idea. The insurance proposal came this morning it will cost £139 pa plus a £35 excess plus 10% excess for fire or theft, exlusions on going treatment for the first year after treatment has ended and anything that could be linked to a previpus condition. I like your idea of having a piggy bank account just to cover mediacl bills. Buit l shall call it a parrot bank account.

Thank you Ellie for you well wishes, Billie has laid three eggs the first was cracked the second became egg bound and l had to take Billie to the vets. They gave her a calcium injection then she laid another egg, but l think she ate that one. The end was missing and the contents. This one looks good and is intact. l hope to have some dummy eggs from Amazon on Jan 9th. The next big drama is l have to take her to the vets for chlamydrois test on 14th January, a friend has offered to take us in his car. The vets said that Billie has to have an xray and if proved positive the treatment and xray will cost £230

Thank you Melisa, cooked one it is although l hope to get small chicken egs tomorrow which might be okay until the proper dummy ones are delivered and being small eggs perhaps she could have two with crushed crackers. Should l put out two hard boiled chicken eggs straight in her cage? To make up for the two that broke? Billie has been crunching her way through a cuttle fish bone.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:56 pm

What about quail eggs? too small? wrong colour?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:53 pm

In the pet shop we kept quail as bottom feeders in the aviary but l have never seen a quail's egg. Not to worry l have 6 parrot/pigeon dummy eggs coming bewteen thursday and next Monday. These are slightly larger at 1.5" to IRN eggs at 1.3"
But thank you for your concern.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:25 pm

Well after two days of totally ignorring the egg she had laid, today she broke it open and there was yolk and album all over the cage floor so l cleared that up. Can't wait for the dummy eggs to arrive. Thursday on. Went shopping today and could not find a white egg any where and no one has small eggs. However l bought 6 medium brown eggs and when l got home l hard boiled one for Billie. Mixed it with a cracker and spoon fed her she loved it, l put the left overs into her cage and she was tucking in later/

From the supermarket l bought a teething toy looks like a rabbit. I gave it to her and she went for the hard bit the kiddie bites so l took it away and then propped it in the corner but she did not like it there and dragged it to the centre of the cage l was able to distract and put it up in the rafters where she has left it alone.

She ate lot of cuttle fish bone, and l gave her veg such as brocoli and green cabbages, she might lay but does not look swollen but that is what l thought on Sunday night and she laid then. A strange thing happend today she sat on my shoulder and just leant her beak against my cheek for ten mimnutes or so, not moving and then later on the other shoulder just leant her head up against my cheek l could hear her wheezing.

I did not have time to go to the pet shop but bought some sanded bottom of the cage budgie sheets from the supermarket becasue they have oyster shell, Billie likes ripping paper up and scratchingher feet like a dog so l thought these sheet swould wear her claw down, give oyster shell, keep her ocupied with something new. I also bought corn on the cob as a change for her.
She is still looking for nesting sites but thank goodness we have moved on from the mating period.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Billie has been cat napping all day, eating a lot of fruit and cuttle fish bone, so l think tonight is the night. A coule of days ago l put in a cuff link box into her cage, it is metal and heavy and Billie did not like it. But l put it back tonight and put some soft tissues in it. She quickly pulled those out and then seemed to check the box over looking at it from dffferent angles, then left it so l think she has accepted it as a possible nest. I folded up a tea towel and put it in the box with a large wooden bead on top as a sort of hint! She was quite intrrigued with the cloth, lifting the sde to see underneath.

Her vent area apeared swollen early on today but at bed time it looked normal. Dummy eggs might come tomorrow, and in any case she goes to see the vet next tuesday Shush! Not so loud.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:25 pm

Thank you for the updates AJ, they are the first thing I look for, as I think about Billie all the time.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:29 pm

Thank you Sanjay's mummi, Billie and l appreciate being appreciated! Never get a hen!

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:39 pm

Where is she laying her eggs? The reason not to give a nest box is to prevent laying. If she is laying any way you can give her a nest box of some description. It may help protect the eggs.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:35 pm

On the cage floor Ellie, yesterday she kicked it into touch and it broke and then she started to eat the yolk. This was the third one. I think she might lay this evening, l am getting into a dab hand at all this laying but if she does it will go into the cuff link box unles is broken. I hope to get the dummy eggs from tomorrow onwards.

Shall l put tfour in the box or just one?

One crisis after another.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:50 pm

I think she needs to lay the egg directly into the box. IRN nest boxes that breeders use a quite large. I would recommend getting one, putting nesting material in it and seeing if she uses it. I don't know if she will as she has already started laying. However if she does lay in the box it will lessen the chances of them breaking. She may be eating the egg because her diet is deficient in something. Make sure you offer her lots of food variety and plenty of it. I personally would avoid grabbing her unless absolutely necessary. The sooner she feels that she has a "full" clutch of eggs, the sooner she'll stop laying. I think when you get the dummy eggs, just replace the real eggs as she lays them. I suspect if you present her with a full clutch she may not accept them.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:13 am

I agree with Ellie...just place one egg at a time. Asiatic parrots are cavity nesters, which is most likely why she won't use the cuff link box. They like their nests deep and dark. If you can find even a cardboard box, seal it up and cut a 3" hole in the side that she can climb into. Line the bottom with pine shavings. Cut a side access hole for yourself so you can check on her from time to time. I think until she is settled with an egg or two in a safe place, she may continue to lay. Lack of calcium is usually the reason for eating their own eggs, but not always. With birds we keep as pets, where we feed them foods that are way outside their normal diet, like hard boiled eggs, I think sometimes they just get confused. :D
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:42 pm

The good news is that Billie laid another egg last night, number 4, wait a minute Bille tells it is number 5 and then we have arguement as to the number eggs she has laid and l offer a compromise 4 and half, but she tells me that she only lays whole eggs! Then the front doorbell rings and lo and behold there on the door step are six unborn parrots, Sextuplets!

The Dummy eggs have arrived l take two out of the box but they look dirty so l wash them.
LESSON ONE Do not wash dummy eggs as they change colour, blue, red, pink, mauve yellow just like some demented gob stopper! So l get two new dummies out of the box and put them in the nest along with the new egg. They look bonny. Billie thinks that l am a cuckoo. I add the wooden bead and now l tell her we can see which one is the dummy egg. She is starving eats everything is sight and wants seconds. I draw the line at thirds.

She is almost like her old self, except she has a big bare patch around her vent. I look for tunes that have bottoms but can only find the Black Bottom, not appropiate. This after noon she is off exploring and finds a way down the back of the cage to the floor and starts rumaging around the electric cables, l get down on my knees and poke a stick under the cage to drive her out, but have to move the cage, l grab her and squash one of her toes. "SQUARK" then holding her foot l say the magic words "Kiss it better!" And smooth her foot with my hand soon the tears have stopped.

At breakfsat l relent and let her have a bite of porridge, One! but she grabs another and just as l am about to eat my breakkfast in the kitchen she looses interest. At dinner time she has her own bowl. But goes to the top of the cage door and tries to get on my shoulder so l move the bowl to the top of the cage and she is delighted with this and tucks in.

She wants to be covered up in the middle of the news but l make her wait until the news has ended and then l cover her, but she is making so much noise in there you would think she is digging a tunnel, in the end l give up and come in here

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:58 pm

That was one of the funniest things I've read in awhile :lol:
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:35 pm

MissK the vet was worried that Billie might have Chlamydia which when is passed to humans is called psittacosis, the vet said something about a lung problem which she heard through a stethoscope/ Billie is not showing any of the symptoms of Chlamydia, such as runny nose and lime green droppings or diarohea, you spell it but something is wrong with Billie as her droppings are very dark green and sticky. Her feathers are neat espcially on the chest but she has lost her feathers around her vent. Her tail feathers are intact heer eyes are bright and clear. I took Billie to the vets over the second egg which l thought was egg bound. The vet gave billie an injection of Calcium and she eats a lot of cuttle fish bone. I give brocoli and cabbage. Her first two eggs had broken shells her third and fourth have shell intact, but l think she broke them deliberately, but it might have been an accident.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:06 pm

AGH!!!

I should have read your posts Skyes-crew and Ellieectrons so to make amend l have found a card board box it is too large but no matter, I have sealed up both ends except for a 3" hole and cut a flap in the side, I went into the LR to put the box in the cage but as soon as turned on the light Billie objected so it will have to wait until morning.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:57 pm

The cardboard box is about a foot long and 9 x 9, it goes through the door but is a bit a struggle to lay it down. I put sawdust in it and just the two dummy eggs. Instant sucess, Billy decided to make improvements at one time she kicked out both eggs. She came out to poop I complained "Not inside your cage!" So l had to take the box out and all her careful house keeping was ruined. Later when l got the box back in she pushed out one dummy egg which was fair enough because she had only laid one egg.

When l had breakfast she stayed in which was a bit of relief and this afternoon she had a sleep in the box for about an hour but when l had diner she came out and had a cooked sweet pea pod but what she really wanted was some corned beef, I let her have a lite bit and shooed her away while l finished my dinner. I quite forgot to put her away until gone 7 and then it was a rush she went into the box and was busy catching up on the house work as l watched TV but l gave in and came in here at 8 pm/

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:06 pm

Peter...although you may want the nest "perfect"...she wants it perfect for her. Just let her set up housekeeping the way she wants. Her messy cage won't last forever :)
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:14 pm

Thanks Melisa, l had some good news today my roof has finally been fixed no more leaks (I hope) but l am not looking forward to Wednesday and the vet/ I keep telling myself she has not got chlamydia so it will be a shock if it turns out she has. Reports l have read say she will recover after medication.

Sad news about Bluey.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:34 pm

Who's Bluey?
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:59 pm

Melissa

See this post re Zentoucan's Bluey viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18609

Ellie

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:34 pm

Billie pushed out the last remaining dummy egg into the front yard but when she was not looking l popped it back in and when l was not looking she ripped a hole in the back of the box and pushed the dummy out there! Who says IRN are not inteligent?

She was busy making a basement and l had not seen her all day so l called to her and she came out and had a cuddle and a scratch, which was good for me and her.

However dinner time she sat on the door and watched every spoon l put into my mouth. I gave her some cooked brown rice on a tea spoon and she ate the lot and the next spoonful, she did not want broad beans or peas but tried a little beef but prefered the brown rice and another spoonful went down the hatch she was ravenous.

Thanks Ellie for supplying Zentoucan topic address

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:19 pm

Hi AJ

With the dummy eggs, you should only use them to replace an egg that's been laid and by that I mean if the egg has been laid, you pull that egg out and replace it straight away with the dummy egg. She still may reject it but it is more likely to work that way. However if her nest eggs aren't broken you may not want to replace them.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:20 pm

Hi Ellie

I still have an unbroken egg of hers, if she follows the pattern of the last few days she would be due to lay tonight in which case if it is whole shall l leave it with her, if broken give her the whole egg from thursday or give her a dummy?
She is eating a lot of cuttle fish bone and l put liquid calcium into her water bottle , the last two eggs have been whole.

One of the links you gave for PFBD said that another test should be carried 90 days later as birds can heal themselves
do you have any thoughts on this?

Also when the vet saw Billie last week she said there was a problem with the breathing and wanted me to being Billie in for a chlamydia test. That will happen tuesday so l am hoping for a good outcome.

Peter (AJ)

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:56 am

Hi Peter

Unless you have another reason for removing the egg, if it doesn't break, I would leave her original egg in the nest. If it does break, I'd probably give her the dummy. When Janey nests I tend to leave her to her own devices as much as possible. I check the nest once a day but other than that, I leave things as they are. Also, I like to offer a huge variety of food when nesting and lots more of it than normal so that she can eat whatever she needs. As you know, legumes and calcium seem to be the things they crave. Janey seemed to live on frozen peas that I cooked when she was nesting.

Regarding chlamidya, I hope it all works out okay. I didn't post any links, I think it may have been Claire. I don't have any knowledge of the disease. Sorry. :(

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:22 pm

Oh so thank you Claire for the links.

It is just a case of waiting to see what the vet says even small changes of behaviour are worrying. Billie has ripped the bottom out of the cardboard box l put in her cage as a nesting box. Its her nesting box!

She looks in good shape apart from the bald patch around her vent, her feathers look good and neat, her feet look okay and toe nails do not seem to be too long, Even when l got her last year her beak outer skin was worn away at the tip, but looking at other photos of Alex it looks quite common.

The cat box is ready, the bath towel is ready, when she is at the vets l wil pop into the pet shop and buy a whole load of goodies for her as a welccome home pressent.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:54 pm

I have not checked the cardbox since Friday and it is anyone's guess if she laid another egg, but l rather think not so the last egg was on wednesday night, and most defineitely that was 4 eggs in all. She is however ravenous and does not stop eating/

If she starts to moult is that the end of this thread?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:49 pm

Five eggs for sure! Billie has been chomping on cuttle fish bone several times today and laid another egg, l left the egg completely alone did not even pick it up and the strange thing is that l did not notice it this morning but about 11am there was yelp of some kind from within the box and l think Billie laid then, the egg has been pushed back and forth but this evening it was out side the box, she has made no attemtp to sit on it.
It is rather forturous that she laid today because she goes the vet tomorrow for the Chlamydia test at 10 am and treatment if posiive. I am not looking forwward to tomorrow. But it will give me time for a big clean up. I hope l can bring her back in the afternoon.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:30 pm

What an odd duck that one...she won't even sit on it? We'll she must know something the rest of us don't. :lol:
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:31 pm

Or maybe she knows what the rest of us do know - that's it infertile ;)

Good luck with the tests. I hope they're negative for chlamydia.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:39 pm

ellieelectrons wrote:Or maybe she knows what the rest of us do know - that's it infertile ;)

.

Very true!!!
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:43 pm

Thank you for your kind comments, well Billie went to the vets kicking and screaming all the way, that was me, the vet was pleased that Billie had been laying eggs but said that had to stop now l was to move the cage and take out any nesting materials so the box went, also l was to stop giving tidbits off my plate.

The vet cut Billie's nails he said that becasue they had not been cut in a long time he was forced to cut a blood vessel, he put potasium on them to stop the bleed and if it restarted l was to contact him. Quite likely she has never had her nails cut , the man who had her before me had her for at least two years and the her nails were never cut then.

I have moved the cage from south facing to west facing and to the opposite side of the room. She does not like it and kept calling my attention and looking pointedly at the old place, I had to eat my breakfast in the Kitchen but had resolved to eat my dinner in the LR watching the news but l had to shut her in.

The vet said they would have the result in a few days and would let me know. If positive the treatment consists of drops fed orally for 6 weeks and it would clear up. He took a blood sample and said you could hear a crackle in her lungs which if the chlamydia test was negative would have to be investigated further.

Billie has been very badly behaved since she got back form the vet, she climbed down the back of the cage and got on the floor later l left the door open as l went out to the kitchen and she followed nearly making it all the way to the kitchen.

This visit to the vets cost £70.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:12 pm

When you consider how much of that 70 quid was "consultation" fee, the treatment wasnt too expensive really. I dont always allow Sanjay food from my plate, because it isnt always sanjay friendly, so he is shut in and given a chestnut or dried fig to nibble, just to be companionable at a mealtime. As for talons, Sanjay has a few rough perches and has never had a problem with his. I hope the wheezing isnt too serious.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:22 pm

Thank you Sanjay's mummi, it was the consultation fee that was £70 they said the treatment would cost £230! :o

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:44 pm

Well today Billie laid another egg, her 6th so far, it was rolling around in the bottom of the cage with the other egg so l had a brain wave l used the dog watering bowl l had been using as her bath to hold those two eggs and one from the china cupboard and two dummy eggs they looked really grand sitting on the wood shavings. Billie eyed them up several time but she made no attempt sit on them.

Then l had another brainwave since parakeets are cave dwellers l thought she would sit on the eggs in a tent made from a carpet square draped over the lower perch. She seemed quite content with this so l went out and did some house work an hour later l came back and she was sitting on the top perch looking as if butter would not melt in her mouth.

I lifted the carpet square to look at the eggs and she had broken the shells of two and eaten the outside of the dummy egg so it resembled a gnarled stone. I threw the brokens eggs and gnarled stone out, and put a dummy egg back in its box leaving her one egg only. But then l had another brainwave, they say the best things come in three's.

So l got a small china bowl and put her egg with some wood shavings and filled up the dog bowl with warm water. She loved that ducking and diving, l even gave her a little spray as well. She has not been able to have a wash while the nesting box was in the cage as there was no room.

She has retrurned to looking for a nesting place and got down the back of the cage to the floor again and started a trek looking for suitable nesting sites. But l was able to way lay her and put her back in the cage. Breakfast time she was not interested in trying get some of my porridge but dinner time she swopped onto the table and dived for the bowl the cheeky monster grabbed a big piece of corned beef and tried to fly off with it but it was too heavy and she crashed landed on my organ, l had to go on hand and kees to search for the corned beef l gave her some and she flew back to her cage with it.

I started closing down the cage at 6 and she went to the top perch at 7 pm and l covered her up, even though l sat watching TV for two hours there wa snot a peep from her

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:19 pm

Hi Peter

What were your vet's reasons for removing the nest box? I'm worried about her continuously laying egg after egg because the eggs keep disappearing. I feel sorry for the both of you. She must be so confused and it must be difficult for you too.

When do you get the chlamidya results?

When you're ready we should get a bit pro-active and talk about how we can try to prevent laying next year.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:45 pm

Thanks Ellie

The vet said it was not good for Billie to lay any more eggs and the quicker l could stop her the better as he did not want to use clinical means, if she tests chlamydia positive she will need all her strength to fight that, and he recomended destroying her safety net by moving the cage and altering routines, moving her toys around and not feeding her from my plate, although tonight she made off with a big piece of corned beef. Sanjay's mummi tells me that Sanjay is locked in at meal times, something l might do for Billie.

She broke the shells of two of the eggs today and there is only one of her eggs left, if she break the shell should l keep that where she can see it? Or get rid of it? The nesting box was made cardboard and she has stripped the entire bottom and some of the sides so l was pleased to get rid of it, l shall phone the vets on friday if she lays again. She scraped the outside of the dummy egg so it looked like a wizend stone and l do not want to use that again.

Thursday I shall move more toys around take take down the tree perch l put in (It has a wing nut) it is quite funny because I like this new position for her cage, but she does not! I think l should stop her looking for new nestings sites even if l have to lock her in when l go from room to room.

The vet said he would post the chlamydia result to me later in the week.

Peter

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Little Buttercup » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:27 pm

I really feel sorry for both of you. Thank goodness Coco layed only 2 eggs and stopped her weird behaviour after the second egg. I placed both eggs in a small cardboard box with a hole in the front, she went in a few times but wasn't interested in sitting on the eggs. It was lying in the box for quite sometime before I got rid of it.

Hoping all the best for you and Billie.

Ash

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:33 pm

Peter,

Thanks for explaining that. I agree that it's in her best interests to stop her laying. Given that she doesn't seem to mind laying them on the bottom of the cage, I don't know if removing the nest will stop the behaviour or just increase it when they break. However I'm sure your vet knows what he's/she's on about. I'm basing all of my knowledge on two breeding seasons with one bird.

Switching up the cage and moving it around is a well documented strategy. I hope it works for you.

Best wishes.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:17 pm

6 eggs is too many!!! Do they have any swirling pattern on the shell? This is a good indication of a calcium deficiency. You may have to place the egg up to a light to see it. If you do see it, get Billie to the vet for another calcium shot. ASAP!!! I would also ask the vet about getting Billie a hormone injection to stop the laying for this season. I'm worried about her.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:01 pm

Thank you friends for your concern, you are worried so am l, so l have moved the cage to the other side of the room and placed it across a corner with a door (Locked) and some decoratove plates showing birds in flight although of a night time l push her up against the door. It is really dark in that corner. I have taken down the wall mirror and removed a metal mirror she has had for a long time. I took out all her favourite toys, moved the feed bowls around, and put in a teething ring in the shape of a rabbit with ears whch she looks at but totally ignores.

Last night her last egg which she laid the night before was in a china bowl and wood chips, and no Melisa there were no streaky marks she did have a calcuim boost shot, l think they put it in to her eye becasue it was very red and itchy, that was her first vet visit, she eats a lot of cuttlefish bone although less today than yesterday. This morning when l unwrapped her she was sitting on her top perch, recently l have found her on the cage floor.

But the egg was outside the bowl and only the shell was left. I cannot believe it is a defiency in her diet because l give egg suplement and last week she had a boiled egg mixed with a cracker, but she only ate a few beak fulls. I put her bath in this morning but she ignorred it. I also removed a paper roll she rips up for nesting material, she has no nesting material.

You will cry when l tell you she has a big bare patch around her vent, l asked the vet would the feathers re-grow during a moult and he said yes if the folicle was not damamged/

We will have to wait and see what tomorrow brings l wlll let you know if she lays her 7th but please pray or hope she has finished laying.

Oh yes the vet said she was under weight, so my worry she was getting fat was misplaced. So now she can a have cheese and more sunflower seeds which she loves. In fact her owner before me only gave her sunflower seeds.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:40 pm

Aj, is Billie eating pellets as well as table food and seed? I would try to get her eating a good amount of them to ensure she is getting enough vitamins and minerals. You can buy pellets specifically for unwell birds to support them through the recovery period.
The only way I know to make pellets more attractive involves mashing them with pumpkin and other cooked vegies or pure apple juice and hotwater (there is 1 brand of juice here that doesn't add asobic acid, which I buy for myself anyway).
Melissa or Ellie will probably have a better idea on whether a mash is a good idea at this stage than I do.
With Sapphire I have been giving her chop with pellets added for breakfast, fresh vegetables twice a day, a teeny bit of seed in foraging puzzles and a bowl of pellets is available at all times. She has been eating pellets after her veggies in the evenings and for snacks and doesn't seem to be complaining about them.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:59 pm

What a good idea Claire thank you. Billie will pick up a pellet or to now and again and crunch them but she does not eat them like seeds maybe it is the taste these ones l bought form the pet shop have meals worms in them

(Would l eat a meal worm? I am not that sort of worm!)

When she has eaten all her seeds and is down to the grubbins she will pick through the pellet bowl it has rolled oats and pearl barley as well. I read that oats make their feathers shine. Billie makes me laugh she tours the various bowl before bed, first the seed bowl and then the fresh druit and veg bowl (If l remember to add veg) and back to seed and then pellets and then seeds.

The vet said l should not give table food but they all say that.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:12 pm

I have never heard of meal worms in parrot pellets. What brand is that?
My vet recommends roudybush pellets. I've heard tops and harrisons are good too, but I can't buy them locally.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:53 pm

I do not think it is a branded product but Pets at home sell them, Harrisons l can get, but the the bad news is l bought a packet 1lb in weight and it cost £18.99 Billie refused to eat it and l had to throw most of it away, the vet said it can take nine month to get them to change to pellets. I shall stick to seeds and fresh fruit and veg.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:55 pm

Sanjay will not touch pellets, so I just stick to fresh fruit and veg, and seed.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:35 pm

The pellets my fids like best is zupreem fruit, but I have to limit them because they'll eat nothing else. I get the cockatiel size which I think is the sm/md bird size.

Peter, good to hear that the eggs looked normal. Our goal when this all started with Billie laying was to make her comfortable and less stressed which is why we suggested a place to lay her eggs. But Billie may just have the drive to lay, but not to mother. I would follow the vets advice at this point. Any news on her test?
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:37 pm

Yes Sanjay's muumi Billie does not like pellets but it could be as Skyes-crew points it might be the taste, well today has been BED Billle's Egg Day, l was over joyed to find there was no egg today! She has been very regular in her laying every two days and now it is three days since the last egg. But the real test will come tomorrow as she has been behaving badly today she tried to masturbate on me and of course l do not allow that, l had hoped that was all over. Also she has been tucking into the cuttlefish bone as if there were no tomorrow!

She wanted to go to bed early tonight, l thought she wanted to have another five minutes to watcth TV but no she wanted to be covered up and then she was poodling around on the floor of the cage so l made her come up onto a perch before covering her up again.

No news is good news and none from the vets either. This year has been hell but now l have been forwarned l know what to do and what not to do for the next breeding season.

I told Billie that if there was not egg tonoight she could have her old place back in the afternoon sun.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:53 pm

BAD NEWS BEARS, Nothing form the vet and Billie laid an egg.

She bashed a hole in the side but l have left it on the cage floor. Despite the egg l moved her back to the window seat and hung the wall mirror behind the cage she was shocked to see herself. I just do not know what to do next, l think l shall wait until Tuesday and if she lays another egg l shall contact the vet, l should have heard from them by then about the Chlamydia.

She has been more like her old self today calling to me when l was in the kitchen. I did a lot of cooking today. She was on her upper perch this morning. I checked the egg and could not see any swirls but it felt fragile. I tried mashing the pellets up and adding some blackcurant juice (dilate to taste it does not have asorbic acid but it has cirtrus acid). It made lovely squashy squishy paste but l thought that was not good for her and threw it away.

Does any one think this egg is part of the producton line? It was three days and not two is she slowing down? Has any one any ideas on how l can stop her laying?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:16 pm

Peter...I think you really need to take Billie back to the vet ASAP. A fragile egg and three days between laying could point to trouble like future egg binding. I understand this is a lot for you...but this could be trouble for Billie. You said she like shepards pie right? Take a tablespoon of that, mix in some crushed oyster shell, and a few calcium drops. And then PLEASE call the vet. There is a hormone shot they can give her to stop her from laying. Let us know how Billie is doing. I feel like she's my bird too lol.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:27 pm

Thanks lol,

Although the vets have a stand by vet on duty it is not an avian vet, l will put liquid calcium into her drinking water but the only oyster shell l have is in some sand sheets, she is eating cuttlefish bone. Yes l will add some drops of liquid calcium to the shepherds pie but that will be tommorrow evening, I will ring the vets before l go to church just in case they have an avian vet on duty Sunday/monday.

All l can do is move the cage round daily to try and shake her into a lack of security. She has not eaten the egg well had not when l put her to bed.

You can only tell she is going to lay several hours before hand, and l thought she was not going to lay another but there it was on the cage floor with a puncture. She likes porridge my type with lashing of sugar and golden syrup and sometimes l have to eat mine in the kitchen but last week l cooked some with water she only ate a little but that might be a good excuse to add some calcium drops to that as well.

Come to think of it she likes cornflakes dipped in water but has not had any for a long time. I think l will add liquid calcium drops to that as well.

It might be enough to keep her going until l can get her to the vets tuesday for sure.

Keep thinking of us.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:33 pm

You can use the shell of a hard boiled egg and crush that up too for calcium.
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:41 pm

WOW

I have just this minute discovered an answer phone message from the vets that Billie's tests have come back negative, so no treatment will be needed.

I aslo discovered that the vets make house calls and they have a branch at Halesowen about 20 miles from here that is open 24/7.

Thanks Melissa for telling me about chicken eggs, l bought 6 the other day and have only used one, l do not eat chicken eggs well not very often/

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:39 am

So pleased the test is negative. Now if Billie could just realise it's time to stop laying!

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:43 am

Wonderful news!, try duck eggs aj, a bit dearer but very nutritious,

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:47 pm

When l worked in the pet shop some tyke offered me a duck's egg, l gave it away as l did not fancy eating it, but thanks Sanjay;s mummi for mentioning it.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:00 pm

You can not always tell if she going to lay but there is no hump on her back and her abdomen looks flat and aother good sign is that the egg she laid on friday night has not been touched, previous eggs she has eaten. Tonight would be the night is she is sticking to one every two days but the last one was three days so l have arranged for a lift to the vets on tuesday when l know the avian vet are on duty.

However if she lays tonight l will phone them monday and see if they will make a house call or if htey htink is is urgent l will catch a cab and bus home. I if she does not then l will still phone and make a provisional appointment for tuesday, and of cours eif she does not lay tonight or tomorrow thenl can either cancel the appointment or keep it for a check up after all she stil lhas this crackle on her lungs.

The troubles with making plans Ellie in advance is that something happens that throws a spanner into the works. But l am beginnig to see the trees and will look forward to making a plan to cope for the next breeding season Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:25 pm

Melissa I told Billie you can have beans on toast with calcium free, or you can have beans under the toast with free calcium, you can have beans on the floor with or with out calcium that costs more, you can have beens on your shoe, the dog won't mind YOU want free calcium with that order? You can have has beens with calicum, but without costs more.
You can have runner beans with calcium if you can catch them, how about broad beans? What with cacium? French beans sorry l don't speakee the lingo, try dingo. Sorry we don't do dingo bags here with or with out calcium.

Needless to say Billie has had calcium with everything, l gave her a boiled agg mashed with shell and free calcium. She had water with calcium to taste or was it calcium with water to taste? She had bath water with a dash of calcium instead of bath salts. Even her drinking water was laced with the stuff She has got calcium coming out of her ears, I let her sniff the bottle of calcium "Do you want a snort?" I asked her but she declined. I even put some liquid calcium into her fresh fruit bowl she thought this was a whizz and looked quite drunk on the stuff, just in case l persuaded her to try some liquid calcium under her wings after her bath. "It will make you smell beautiful." I told her.

The liquid calcium has never had it so good.

OH! It says shake the bottle? Billie come here!

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:26 pm

OH!!! Don't shake Billie :lol:
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:28 pm

BE7 + 3

Billie's Egg number 7 + 3 days. Her last egg was laid 3 days after the previous one but all the rest were 2 days apart, and because it is day three l did not phone the vets in case she stops laying of her own accord. Today she has been like her old self playing with beads, more vocal, eating a lot, yesterday l gave her some boiled egg mashed with the shell and she had a little of the left over today. I cooked some porridge made with water for to eat at breakfast, while l scoffed porridge made with milk and golden syrup with lashing of sugar, shh! Don't tell Billie.

Tonight l ate up some casseroled liver and mash potatoes which had been lurking in the bottom of the freezer, Billie loved the sweet corn and gravy and came back for seconds, and after l had some cheese and biscuits she enjoyed a little cheese.

She ate most of the fresh fruit l put in a bowl for her, and l gave her extra seeds which either she has sold on the black market or eaten.

I left the broken egg in the bottom of her cage l think it has gone off, it stinks to high heaven, it is either the egg or me!
It has been there htree days. One of us will have to go!

Cross you fingers that she does not lay toniight. If she does l have transport waiting to take us to the vets.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:11 pm

BE7 +4

Well Billie did not lay last night so it is four days since her last egg can l say she has stopped?

The next stage will be the moult.

Shalll continue relaying news on this thread?

I cancelled all my lifts to the vets, l meant to phone them to let them have the good news, l had to go shopping today and l went into the pet shop and bought some oyeter shell, and some charcoal, some egg biscuit, some nice seed from vitakraft, got to look after my baby.

She did not eat the last of the corn cob so l did not get her any more but they had pomerganites back in stock which she likes digging the seeds out.

It might be a good idea Ellie to look at lessons learnt on this thread, what do you think?

A sepecial thanks for Melissa and Claire, and Sanjay's muumi and Ellie and MissK for helping me to get through this difficult time.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:56 pm

Fingers crossed that she has finished laying now. Sounds like it is hopeful.

You're welcome AJPeter.


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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:49 am

You're very welcome Peter. Hopefully Billie will be back to her usual ornery self soon :wink:
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:20 pm

Cannot say she was ever ornery, but l get the gist of what you are saying Melissa, undoubtedly changes are taking place but there does not seem to be a pattern in her behaviour. She still enjoys a cuddly and moves from my hand onto my jumper whether this was a left over form the rash l had or an attmept on her part to rub herself on me l cannot make up my mind up. Watching carelfully her rump is lifted so l do not think she is trying to rub herself on me, but l do not encourage her.

Since the vet clipped her nails she is not very keen to ride on my shoulder.

I think all this started back in October when l was doing everything wrong, too much petting especially under the wing, and on the back. Too much electric light late at night, too much cooked soggy food. And then by steps she started to respond by wanting to mate. It was a good job Melissa spotted her behaviour.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:40 pm

BE7 + 5
Now l have cut back on the liquid calcium. She still wants her cuddles, l am slao trying new food out on her/

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:25 pm

BE7+6

Will she start laying again this year?

I know her weight will be down as it was very exhausting for her to lay 7 eggs so l have been giving her extra treats, but she seems to know what she wants, only tonight she refused more one piece of corned beef. only ate one cooked sugarsnap pea. This morning l gave her some passion fruit but she threw that out along with the strawberry, she polished off some pomegranite, and ate a lot of Mango.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:23 pm

BE7+7 Well that that is that

She shows no sign of moulting, has a bath once a week more like a paddle l spray her two three times a week just lighlty it seems all she wants.

She still tries to mate but l say No thank you and change the subject.

So life goes on nothintg to relate.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by Skyes_crew » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:50 pm

I do not think she will molt until spring Peter. Usually when it's warmer they molt. I'm very happy to hear that she is done laying though. Give her a neck scratch for me :D
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:39 pm

I think I may have confused the issue with my comments on moulting. I think nesting can delay moulting if the hen is sitting on eggs when the moult is due. In birds that are specifically used for breeding this tends to happen if the breeder double clutches in one year. Sorry if I confused you Peter.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:33 pm

Sanjay is losing his undercoat, and the wild birds are mating and nesting, so I think Billie may start moulting anyway.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:33 pm

Sanjay is losing his undercoat, and the wild birds are mating and nesting, so I think Billie may start moulting anyway.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:50 pm

Thank you Melissa and Ellie, not much chance of spring here we might get snow next week. I think this was her first clutch because she made no attempt to sit on the eggs just bashed holes in them.

She likes the room temperature at 75f but that is far too hot for me except in the evenings, over night l try and not let the temp drop below 68f but sometimes it goes down to 62 and she is very sluggish in the mornings but when its a bit warmer l go in and call out and she lets out squeals of delight even before l have uncovered her.

You did not confuse me Ellie, well not any more than l am. All this is new to me, and very exciting, do not worry Melissa the next neck scratch is from you.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:57 pm

Sanjay is in England. Faceing the same weather we are having in Birmingham, and if Sanjay is starting to moult maybe Billie will not be too far behind.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:19 pm

I'm a little bit upset that after all the time saying no to her advances and then putting up with 7 eggs only to find that she still wants to mate or masturbate on me is a bit thick. Of course l keep saying no but Billie is quite head strong and does not take no lightly.

At least she has stopped laying, l ought to be thankful for small mercies.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:43 pm

I have just done some research in the forum, a doze of my own medeicine you could say and have turned up two interesting results the first is that l need to give Billie time to settle down down after the egg laying because her hormones will be all over the place and the second is to do with petting. Her mating/wanting to masturbate seems to come after l have given her a little neck scratch and would appear to me that all petting is now out until she settle down.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:08 pm

All the mistakes l made before she started laying eggs l seem to making all over again. I have been spoon feeding her porriidge off my plate, sickly sweet with golden syrup and lashing of sugar made with milk. Well today she got her own porridge in a bowl up high up made with water and oh boy could she taste the difference. She put her tongue on the porridge and left it alone but at least she did not get any of mine.

I also gave her a bowl for the Shpherd's pie we both love.

But from now on no more petting, she likes me to hold my hand still while she moves under it but the artful bird tries to get herself under my hand so her back gets rubbed. Well no more. I may have to move things around in her cage, even move the cage itself. I think it is trial and error

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:46 pm

oh dear; it has to be tough love then?, what a shame. Never mind, it wont be forever.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:22 pm

Thank you Sanjay's Mummi, it is hard to deprive one the you love with life's little creatue comforts but l console myself it is for her good and mine.

Billie has been better behaved today although she tried it on trying to get me to mate with her. Or masturbate on me, l noticed she was trying to feed her image in the mirror today so l was forced to take it away and put up the pictue of a bridge across the river.

She just takes it on the chin.

I gave her some porridge (made with water) this morning she ate quite a bit. l think that will have to go as it counts as soft mushy food and while she is in this hormonal stage it only makes her worse. I ve changed things around in her cage but if she continues to be hormonal l may have to move the cage, l only want to make small changes. She has such a sweet temerpment she does not bite me/

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:21 pm

sanjay does not bite me either, I get "kisses", also, he answers me now, If I ask "do you wants a fig?" he pins his eyes and makes a sound, then hops onto the nearest perch to receive it. also, if I ask "are you alright?" he pins and answers the same way (affirmative), really sweet loving little guy, :P

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:37 pm

It is really great how they develop and have their own way to answer us, Sanjay's Mummi but at the moment Billie is just getting her voice back, some one came to my fornt door and rang the belll and Billie answered with a lovely new call. But when l greet her in the morning she squeals with excitement.

She was ever so good yesterday so l let her have the wall mirror back and today has seen an improvement in her behaviour. She still wants to mate but l deter her with something different and she sat on the back of my arm chair for some time.

She has her own bowl for porridge made with water, l get the full milk and golden syrup in mine. Dinner time l make up a bowl for her of fresh vegeatables but she does get a cooked sugar snap pea pod. Tonight she was back to her old time of going to bed at 7 pm but she had to put up with me watching TV until 8 with the sound turned off.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:43 pm

I was reading in Wikipedia that the breeding season is between November and April. WOW! Another 4 months to go of thses hormonal urges and l was just ttinking that she was over the worst. Billie still tries to mate, she is very crafty begging for a scratch which turns into head butting and wagging her tail. I tell her no thanks I'm British!

But we make progress.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:31 pm

I feel very sorry for Billie she has these hormonal things where she runs along the lower perch and dives into a corner beak on the deck and tail up in the air, this afternoon we had a lot of pay sessions. Arm lock (I let her win) wrestle (She let me win) boxing (Draw) Kick boxing (She won) Pretend biting (I won) Head butting (She won) all this was driven by her hormonal urges. Poor Billie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:34 pm

Gosh! I can only hope next breeding season will be a doddle, at least Billie and I have learnt the ropes.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 pm

Its a shame we cannot neuter our birds, isnt it?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:45 pm

I feel sorry for splayed cats, at least our birds can go through the motions of child birth

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:29 pm

Aj: did your vet work out what was causing her respiratory issues?

If you look into it enough, you should be able to reduce her desire to lay before next season. Ellie didn't get any eggs from her pair last year.
If you are keeping a non breeding bird, it seems pretty callous to let her go through all that effort and risk for no babies. I don't think I'd want to go through childbirth just for the experience! stuff that! :lol:

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:05 pm

The vet said she could hear a crackle in Billie's lungs but since the obvious reason the Chlamydia was ruled out the vet said that it could be pretty expensive to proceed any further and l should wait to see if any other complications cropped up.

I agree with you heartily about Billie laying next season l shall do everything possible to deter her and if she does start laying l know now what to do to stop her as quickly as possible, 7 eggs is 7 eggs too many.

However she is still having hormonal urges and as the breeding season may last until April we shall have to sit them out. I try and turn her breeding desire into a game for her, it is sort of rough housing her. I could not stop her laying this year once she had started l could have taken measures sooner i l had known what would work.

I am hoping that once Billie comes out of the breeding season and starts to moult l shall start helping her not to start next season or not starting on time.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:07 pm

I think Billie is slowly getting better many of her calls stopped during the egg laying period but not they are coming back now. But she still gets those hormonal urges, today she wanted to feed me and was regurgitationg liquids l stopped her as quickly as l could, but she ws very presisitent. She rocks back forth and jabs me in the ear lobe but when l try and cover my ears she climbs onto my fingers, and starts all over again. This is the signal for her to back on her cage. After one such episode she retreated to the bottomof the cage abd sat in hormal position so it might be that her need to regurgitate might be linked to the hormonal urges.

Recenltly she has been losing a lot of fluffy feathers, l think she is getting rid of her long johns!

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:34 pm

Slowly is the word, this morning when l uncovered her she dived to the bottom of the cage and sat with her tail up and beak on the floor. That's it l thought no more so l moved the cage to the other side of the room it stopped her egg laying before maybe it will stop her hornonal urges. She has not had an hormonal attack all day so that is good.

She did not like the new cage position and made a lot of complaints which l ignorred. And she has been absolutey beastly.

Flying to to the back of my chair and breaking her neck to get down on my shoulder and then butting me ear lobe, l watch her carefully becasue l think she is masturbatinfg on me as soon as l am sure l put her back on her cage. And two minutes late she flies to the back of my chair it starts all over again. I cut out her porridge today and now she does not get any soft mushy food.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:06 pm

So this is day two of the cage being in a new position and Billie has behaved like a perfect lady today, no head butting no rubbing herself on me, no diving to the bottom of the cage with an hormonal attack. She has sat on my shoulder quietly and although not perfect l will move her cage back tomorrow.

I bought one of those bendy cotton ropes today and put it her her cage but so far she has just ignorred it.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:54 pm

Sanjay has discovered the joys of chewing wood!, his fruit flavoured swings and toys are sawdust on the floor of his palace. :lol:

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:22 pm

Thanks be that Billie has not got to that stage yet, carboard is her staple diet.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:06 pm

I am beginning to think that when Billie rubs herself on my shoulder it is not masturbating but itchy skin. I picked her up and turned her over because l thought the vent area was soiled but it was beautifully clean but it did look as if the bare patch from her vent up her tummy was inflamed. I have a ordered a spray Rain which has Aloe Vera and l am hoping this will calm that patch down.

But nevertheless l do not want her rubbing that patch as it will only make it worse.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:00 pm

Aloe Vera is very soothing, I keep Aloe Vera gel in the fridge for burns etc.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:12 pm

Thank you Sanja's mummi for your reply, l suppose gel would come from a health food shop?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:43 pm

English: Hallo Vera
Hawaain: Aloha Vera
Bronx: Aloe Vera

Well it arrived today and l duly squirted Billie's bare patch. She thought l had a lot of cheek, not as much as you are showing l told her. But she is still getting these hormonal attacks one this afternoon drove her to the bottom of the cage where she sat hunched up with squeals. I put my hand in and stroked her after a while she started to move. Even though the Aloe Vera must be soothing she is strill trying to rub herself on me, but l have carefuilly watched her in a mirror and she is not rubbing her genitalia on me so it is not masturbating.

I shall be glad when the patch on her belly heals and new feathers appear, l asked the vet about it and he said the feathers would grow if the folicles were not damaged.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by sanjays mummi » Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:33 pm

Sounds as though she is itchy, yes, Holland and Barret have it, and they have a penny sale on at the moment.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:09 pm

Thanks for the tip, there is a H @ B in One stop shopping centre l will try and remember to get some on Tuessday when l go shoppng. The spray "Rain" came yestersday. They recomend keeping it refigerated spray that on Bille's bar patch and she is the one that would be frigid!

The computer in our church which was donated has packed up, any one know where we might get another donated?

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:27 pm

Being over indulgent does not pay dividends. I gave her the roller of paper to play with and she had pulled it all off the roll and shredded it and tonight she was banging around after l covered her up making so much noise l could not hear the TV
so l took the tray out and cleaned it putting back empty. l also hid the empty roller. This was a good move because after l put the tray back in silence descended and there was peace in the valley again.

I noticed today that lf allow her onto my shoulder she want so rub herself on me this causing her hormonal vibes, also too much neck scratching in my lap is causuing her hormonal problems too and after l forcibly put her back on the cage she ran to the bottom of the cage and sat there all hunched up. Her classic hormone pose.

Her bare patch does not look red now, l just hope it heals.

I am beginiing to think it is a hands off the bird.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:01 pm

Bad news bears.

Billie has laid an egg.

Her last was on the 17th Jan and now 22 days later she laid again last night her 8th egg this year! This calls for drastic measures. I have moved her cage, taken out most of her toys, she did not get any porridge this morning and l have turned off the floor lamp she likes to sun bathe under. Also l have kept her in the cage for most of the day becasue this morning she was looking for a way onto the floor in the search for a nesting area, in fact she actually flew to the ground but my feet were in the way of her landing and she had to pull up.

The egg has a hard shell and at first l tried to put it into an open nest l carefuly laid it on a cloth in the cuff link box but she tried to pull the cloth out so l replaced it with wood shaving but she was trying to get those out so l got rid of the box and laid the egg back on the cage floor.

She has been very hormonal recently, in the mornings l found her sitting on the floor of the cage, and during the day she would dive for the floor of the cage squealing. l suppose l have not helped by giving her porridge made with water in the mornings. keeping the temp up at night about 69 and during the day 75 well no more it has been about 71 today, She did not like being shut in and l tried several attempts to let her out for some exercise but each time her heart was set on looking for a nesting site.

This morning she was sitting on her sleeping perch looking as if butter would not melt in her mouth. And l thought she was over laying eggs.

If she lays another one it is off to the vets. By the way l have got 5 dummy eggs; she chewed one to bits. Also l have sprinkled oyster shell grit on the cage floor, and in her seed bowl.

WHAT MORE CAN I DO? Any one got a gun?

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ellieelectrons
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:42 pm

I think just make the appointment with the vet. I believe there are more drastic steps that can be taken such as hormone injections. I guess if it depends if she is a candidate for it and I'm guessing it will be expensive. My avian vet told me of another technique involving limiting food and daylight hours for a short period of time to reset her body clock. I won't publish the details here as I think it really needs to be done under vet supervision, so perhaps you could ask your avian vet about it. I'd also discuss with my vet the idea of giving her an open nest or a nestbox and just let her do her thing for this year, lay the eggs and sit on them until she loses interest. In my mind I'd prefer her to do that rather than lay a large number of eggs every year because they kept getting taken away?

When I discussed the idea of the open nest with my avian vet last week, he said he didn't have a problem with it but he also didn't Scientifically see why it would work.

Poor you, poor Billie. I hope things get sorted out soon.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:16 pm

Thanks Ellie, l just sent you a private message please ignore, you may be right, my vet was not keen on hormone injection so l think he will want me to try other methods first. She is still wantng to find a nest so l am not holding out much hope that she will give up laying, but l cannot see any bumps, her abdomen looks flat.

Melisa was telling me that the keel bone should be flat but on Billie her breast bone is jagged and sharp, she was quite intrigued l wanted to feel it, when l see the vet l will ask him about it.

The egg she laid friday night is rolling around the bottom of the cage because the floor slopes so the egg rolls down and sits to one side of the tray, so far she has not touched it, I do not think she has any inkling about sitting on it.

Tonight she had a treat Shepherd's pie, potato crust, corn peas and broad beans, she usually gets a crust at tea time but turned her nose up at for the last couple of days.

So the latest is if she lays tonight l will be on the phone to the vet first thing in the morning, but if not l shall wait to see if she can stop with the measures l have already taken. But i will try your idea of shortening her day

Will keep everyone posted/

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ellieelectrons
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:12 pm

Do you know how old Billie is?

Ellie

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InTheAir
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by InTheAir » Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:43 pm

Aj, I agree with Ellie that consulting your vet it a very good idea.

Also, does Billie go to bed when the sun goes down and wake up when it gets light?

If you are keeping her up late by having lights on while it is getting dark outside it may be tricking her into thinking it is time to breed.

You do understand that a hen does not start sitting on her eggs until she has laid a full clutch?
This is why she shows no interest in sitting on the first egg.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:52 pm

She is as old as her tongue and a little older than her feathers, i do not really know but l had a word with the man who pushed her out of the window and he said she never laid any eggs when she was with him, and she only got sunflower seeds no fruit or any other seeds , no grains or vegs. From what was said previously l think she could be about 4 to 5 years old.

If she does not lay tonight l shall not phone the vet and of course then the whole process will be repeated if she does not lay tomorrow night and then again tuesday night. But lets cross one bridge at a time, I seem to think waiting for Billie might be the best option.

Tonight l had the electric light off at sundown and her cage was bathed in sunlight, eerie but it got so dim l had to put the light on. She starts going to bed at 6 pm when l start closing the cage down and between 6,30 and 7 she calls for the covers but bangs around on the floor of the cage for about 20 minutes before it goes all quiet. I wake her up at about 9 am and she squeals with excitment.

She showed no interest to sit one the 7 egg before just bashed holes in them. Was she saying "NO good Reject?" I tried a cardboard nesting box but she just ate the floor and sides, at avarious times pushed the eggs outside. This week l tried an open nest with a folded piece of cloth in my metal cuff link box, she wanted to pullout the cloth l got rid of that and put wood chips in but she was trying to get those out so l put the egg on the cafe floor and she has left it alone.

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ellieelectrons
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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:20 pm

I was asking about her age because a young bird laying eggs is less likely to become egg bound than an older bird. Sounds like Billie is still reasonably young. Of course it can still happen to a young bird but there is less of a likelihood. Given that she is already laying eggs, it is an option to give her a proper nest box and let her go through the motions. If she is able to lay a full clutch and then sit on them, that might be it until next year. Once that is over you can work on her diet and see if things are different next year. I'm not saying you SHOULD take this course of action but it is an option. I suggest you consult with your vet on this.

I have no scientific basis for this, but personally I would avoid handling her (unless absolutely necessary) as I wouldn't want to damage any reproductive processes going on inside of her.

Regarding the open nest. Janey tipped the pine shavings out every day too. I just filled it up once a day when she was away from the cage. The fact that she was showing interest in it was enough for me. My situation was a bit different to yours in that I was giving her the open nest because she was became nest-territorial of several locations around the house. She hadn't started laying eggs and didn't lay eggs that year.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:41 pm

Thank you Ellie for the news of the open nest for Janey, this morning l gave Bille an old card board box for a nesting box and she just sat in it ripping it to pieces, in the end l had to take it away from her.

Well the news is that she laid another egg, and l phoned the vets. I got the impression from them that what Billie is doing is quite natural since her first batch were all duds and perhaps that is why she bashed holes in them I say that because these two eggs weigh a ton compared to the earlier ones and are still intact. I think l should not be concerned if she lays a clutch what is that 4 eggs? Any more and l shall phone the vets again, if she keeps to a pattern then the next will be due Tuesday and the one after thursday, the avian vet is on duty on friday, and tuesday.

I left her out while l fixed dinner tonight and l could hear her flying about looking for a nest site l presume, so l came back and locked her in while l finished the preparations. Moving the cage and taking out her toys moving the bowls around and moving the mirror did not stop her laying so l have given them all back.

I shall go shopping tomorrow and call in at the pet shop where l can buy a proper nesting box made of wood but she is just as likely to rip that to pieces. I do not believe she knows how to sit on eggs. I was wondering whether a practical example would help her, see Parrot speak/

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:37 pm

Just a quick note: Make sure you get the right size nestbox for a ringneck. They need a pretty big box. Most of our generic local pet stores here don't sell them.

Ellie.

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Re: A thread for AJ and Billie about hormonal behaviour.

Post by AJPeter » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:36 pm

Now she tells me!

I bought a wooden box for a chinchilla l think these are wild double chins, any way the box is about 12" x 10" and 8" high, it cost £9 and has a large door way and no other windows, the large openning means l can see inside if l go on hands and knees inside her cage and cran my neck sideweays.

Billie loves it she watched as l manouvered it into her cage and it is large enough to balance her swimming pool on top, l put in some wood chips but she started to kick these out so l added some news paper and that was kicked out as well but then l put her two eggs in at the back of box but later l saw she had pushed these to the front while she decorated inside.

She moaned like the dickens last night as l watched tv but tonight she was inside her box but later l heard her come out for a midnight nosh. I also bought some willow sticks l gave her one and she loved chewing on that. Its chicken tonight, that is if she i going to lay again. LOL she kept looking into the box to see how the twins were and l kept telling her they have to hatch first.

She had one hormonal attack this afternoon and sat ont he bottom of the cage but after l stoked her she came out for a cuddly

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