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A "step up" in research for MissK

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MissK
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A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:48 pm

Hey.

I've read my Karen Pryor (_Don't Shoot The Dog_) and my Mattie Sue Athan (_Guide To A Well-Behaved Parrot_ and _Guide to Companion Parrot Behaviour_) cover to cover a million times. (NOTE to easily impressed readers, this is where I learned most of what I know of theory.... you could read them too!) The first is all about operant conditioning (well, maybe not ALL) and the second two are about living with the parrot, and improving his social with humans interactions.

Can you suggest for me the next level up in books I should be reading? I do have Robin Deutsch's _Good Parrotkeeping_ and an interesting tome called _Parrotlopaedia_, and I flat out got rid of my Greg Glendell's _Breaking Bad Habits In Parrots_ because I thought it was big on fluff and small on content. _Good Parrotkeeping_ is an excellent book, but not sufficiently in-depth for me.

I'm looking for more detailed and informative books regarding the housing, diet, enrichment, and physical needs of parrots in general or Psittacula species in particular. I want to avoid books that rehash what I've already read, and especially the "easy to read" stuff. I find a lot of the time things are "easy to read" because they have omitted extensive detail - and that detail is what I'm after. I'd also be interested in books that contain obscure information, or a detailed took at the where and whyfor of the natural life of wild Psittacula. I'd love a book that was devoted entirely to the requirements of the captive environment for parrots in general, and Psittacula in particular.

So, how about it? What book has impressed the pants off you? What did you give up on or just not recommend because it was too complicated? What did you read that made you say "Woah, too much detail!" What book reads like I write? Given what you know of me from what you've read, what book do you think I should read to advance myself?

Much appreciation!
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:41 am

War and peace???

The Iliad and the odyssey???

Instructions to operating my Smart TV???

Not about psitttacula, but it'll keep you thoroughly perplexed :mrgreen:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:54 am

I haven't even read many parrot books, I just trawl the net. Google scholar has some interesting bits in papers on there. You have to search the Latin name or rose ring parakeet to turn up the interesting stuff, as far as I recall.
The books at the library here are a bit limited and so is my disposable income (it seems to disappear on bird toys)..
Weird book I did read, which may not fit your criteria for multiple reasons, is The Parrot That Owns Me by Joanne someonewhosnameicantrecall. Between the descriptions of the disturbing relationship she had with her Amazon, there were some interesting insights about wild parrots she had observed. It's more like a biography of her bird, or possibly a red cover Mills and Boon....

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AlphaWolf » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:03 am

I say make your own, MissK's Compendium of Companion Birds. The amount of knowledge you have will make the book have 10 volumes of 500 pages each. :D
"Live with parrots and you learn to panic"

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:05 am

AlphaWolf wrote:I say make your own, MissK's Compendium of Companion Birds. The amount of knowledge you have will make the book have 10 volumes of 500 pages each. :D
I can agree to that...but can you please include a chapter on how to operate my smart TV. Seriously I'm feeling stupid here :?
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:51 am

Skyes_crew wrote:
I can agree to that...but can you please include a chapter on how to operate my smart TV. Seriously I'm feeling stupid here :?
Don't worry, we can't work ours either.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:48 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, guys! Anything?

And why do you have a Smart TV in the first place?
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:55 am

Ummmmm..cause it's smart...duh :mrgreen:

Why do you want to read complex parrot manuals?? I agree with alpha on this. Start writing a first hand comprehensive guide to caring and interacting with your fids. Your mind is way more complex and interesting than any book I've come across. If it wasn't, I wouldn't be on here reading your posts, I'd be searching for a book :mrgreen:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:10 am

Well, thanks for that. :P

I just feel that there's a lot more for me to learn. I want to know. I want the picky little details, the obscure information, so much more than the basics. You know me - you know I want to get in every little nook and cranny. I want to know my bird and his tribe inside and out.

I pick up books and flip through them, at the pet store, the book store (remember those?!), the library, and I see what I've already read. Lots of times I flip through and see the book just missed the opportunity for further discussion. I want that further discussion. I know books have to keep their audience in mind and that the average Joe just wants stuff dumped easily in the lap.

But I want more! I just want more. I know that I don't know it all, but I want to! I want a short stack of intense books I can read all winter and emerge in Spring knowing 100% more than I know now.

:( It's frustrating.
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:14 am

Might I suggest a mentor instead of a book then?
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:51 am

Oooooh! Are you offering to snuggle up with me on those cold winter nights, whispering stories of wild Psittacula and excellent husbandry practices? :wink: Actually a class might be better than a mentor - you know how I like structure.
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:48 am

lol...I was actually thinking along the lines of one of the more experience psittacula breeders. One of the old guard. They are a treasure trove of info. I don't quite fit that mold...yet :mrgreen:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:59 pm

I don't know if this will be a step up for you, but you can try this one if you haven't already seen it:
http://salaisuus.kapsi.fi/random/lol/Ma ... havior.pdf

I've only read a few paragraphs and wasn't sure if I agreed with all that was said but it was interesting. I've linked to it before, so you may have already seen it.

Actually, I know of a course for may like. See http://www.behaviorworks.org/

I enquired about this earlier in the year and I may have ended up on the waitlist for the course 2015 but as I didn't follow it up, I don't know. Maybe a group of us could do it? I registered for the LLP-Caregivers course but there is also a professional course you could look at.

Ellie.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by ellieelectrons » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:01 pm

Yes, I typed it right, hopefully I'm on the 2015 waitlist, not the 2014 waitlist! lol

Ellie.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:45 pm

Thanks for the link to manual of parrot! That gives me something to do next time squidgette doesnt want to return to her cage. I already solved all the puzzles on cut the rope and was wondering what I could do next.
MissK wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, guys! Anything?

And why do you have a Smart TV in the first place?
I think Dave bought it so Nila wouldn't be the smartest thing in the house anymore.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Kimma » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:28 pm

MissK wrote: I pick up books and flip through them, at the pet store, the book store (remember those?!), the library, and I see what I've already read. Lots of times I flip through and see the book just missed the opportunity for further discussion. I want that further discussion. I know books have to keep their audience in mind and that the average Joe just wants stuff dumped easily in the lap.
You could see if any of the authors are online, and have any more articles or anything. Or strike up a conversation and pick their brains.

I'm curious about the "further discussion" you want too. Could you post extracts to the forums and get the discussions going here? Or perhaps start your own blog - you're allowed to quote decent size chunks of source material if you're critiquing it. Start with your opinion and see if anyone else contributes. You could end up with a great resource.

What's an example of a topic that you think isn't covered in enough depth?

Also, I just ordered A guide to Asiatic Parrots and A Guide to Colour Mutations and Genetics in Parrots. I have no idea if they are any good, but I'll give feedback when I have a chance to read them.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:44 am

Thanks for the input, friends!

Skyes_Crew, you're going to be old guard one day. A long, long time from now you're going to get old anyway, so might as well make the best of it and be that breeder who has seen it all or knows who has. You're seriously on your way.

I will follow those links and explore, thanks Ellie.

Thanks Kimma, as well, for valid suggestions about following those authors. I'm hoping, too, for some new authors.
The topics I want to explore further are just generally the nature of the bird and what it needs - more detail on housing, diet, enrichment, and physical needs. Ways to optimize the captive environment. Better understanding of what makes the bird tick, physically, and how that can be manipulated to affect certain behaviours. Answers to questions like the ones we were recently exploring on manipulating day length to influence hormonal behaviour but not screw up molting, and managing environmental temperature in order to safely move the bird for temporary excursions outside in winter.

These in particular are topics the forum has been considering without, in my opinion, sufficient success. We also have members with particular issues that have been ongoing and not satisfactorily resolved. I can look forward, in another month or so, to my own unresolved issue of Rocky's feeding everything in the cage. We understand this is hormonal behaviour, and we understand certain contributing factors, but we don't understand how to resolve it. I feel that a more advanced study may yield insight, if not actual answers, and I feel that we all stand to benefit if more advanced knowledge is added to our group resource. I want more to work with than I have now.

I'm interested in the two books you noted, although mutations are not an area I want to explore. Perhaps you will review them for us once you have a chance to look them over?

I hear what you're saying about bringing chunks of research to the forum for discussion and blogging, but I don't see me relating my research any time soon. What I mean is, I won't be doing that before I feel like I have a really good handle on my content, and that would be after a lot of study. --If I can find some more advanced material at all. Like everyone else, I will have to squeeze in my research and study time between Life. I also don't see me ever blogging (on anything) in this lifetime unless it can be made to generate a *rewarding* income. (I'll do almost anything for money now, since the recent and ongoing Exciting Canine Medical Extravaganza.....)

I appreciate your input, all, and am keeping ears open for any more thoughts. Thanks!
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Kimma » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:41 pm

Those books I mentioned arrived yesterday. The guide to Asiatic Parrots was very disappointing. Very light on details, and focussed on aviary kept birds. It *might* have been good in the days pre-internet, but

The book on Genetics, however, is awesome. The first part of the book is all the stuff I have been trying to find out about parrot mutations - what the underlying physical effects are that produce the colour changes - and I haven't even got to the more technical stuff in part 3. But it doesn't include anything about can and behaviour, so not what you're after.

I am going to get the books you mentioned in your original post too though.

Have you tried looking at scientific studies? I had a quick look and there are loads of papers on Psittacula, though how many are useful I don't know. A lot seem to have been done on wild/feral parrots. And of course you can't read them for free, but you might find one that is worth paying for, or at least some scientists worth talking to/stalking.

Here's one that sounds interesting http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/2012 ... BC757127EB

I'm also looking at getting this book The Parrot Wizard's Guide to Well-Behaved Parrots. The info he has on his blog is good, which makes the book seem promising.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason you're having trouble finding more in-depth books is because the research just hasn't been done.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:49 pm

Well, I agree with you there - it is just possible my books don't exist. BUT, on the other hand, if they are there, I won't find them without searching!
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Kimma » Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:01 pm

Very true. Definitely not saying not to look.

I just meant that if the research hasn't been done yet, that doesn't mean give up.

I was thinking that direct hassling of scientists and grant givers could get the research done :) I don't know how a person gets a grant to do research like this exactly, but I am sure popular interest in the topic helps to get grants approved.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:54 am

Have you read this one? http://www.charlieandpeggy.com/mikedoolan.pdf
I'm only up to page 18 so far, but there are some interesting points to ponder...

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:14 am

Not seen that yet. Putting it on the list.
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:02 am

Here's a link for WPT with a bunch of articles. http://www.parrots.org/index.php/refere ... nutrition/

Also do a search for Eb Cravens. His articles will keep you reading for weeks :D
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:15 pm

Is the site for companion birds? Not sure if l have the right address "Knowing them inside out" and "Picking their brains!"
I think too much credence is given to people who write books on parrots, to click or not to click that is not the question but unexplained behaviour such as biting a foot might be solved by finding alternative things for your IRN to do once they start a behaviour pattern it is hard to break them out of it. There is nothing as good as observation, and if you bought a book on farming could you run a farm? No you need the good practical experience and of course learn from other people's experiences.
But well done MissK the next ime l need to know my parrot inside out l will come to you.
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:22 pm

AJ, I hope I'll be up to it...... :)

But truly, you can't be saying that reading and research are worthless, can you?
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:50 pm

Gosh, even theoretical knowledge is better than no knowledge when it comes to running a farm.... imagine the the troubles you'd have harnessing the pig to the plough, because you you thought it was the cart horse... or mowing the blueberry bushes and harvesting the deadly nightshade patch in the back paddock. :lol:

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:00 pm

Heck, even *I* know it's not the Blueberries but the BLACKBERRIES that you mow over! (I read it in my book, _The Berry Grower's Companion_......) http://www.amazon.com/Berry-Growers-Com ... 0881927260

It's excellent information, but I still prefer _American Grape Training_....... (First published in 1893 and still useful, now available online! http://books.google.com/books/about/Ame ... xIAAAAIAAJ)

Uh-oh. I was being geeky again. :oops:
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:56 pm

I should have read that book on farming.
I can't believe no one has reviewed that book about grape training! Do you a clicker for training grapes? What kind of tricks do they do?

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AlphaWolf » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:51 pm

InTheAir wrote:Gosh, even theoretical knowledge is better than no knowledge when it comes to running a farm.... imagine the the troubles you'd have harnessing the pig to the plough, because you you thought it was the cart horse... or mowing the blueberry bushes and harvesting the deadly nightshade patch in the back paddock. :lol:

This part totally reminded me of Hunger Games :D .
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:45 am

Do you a clicker for training grapes? What kind of tricks do they do?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

They climb and they run! No Clicker Required!
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:52 am

I would be very interested to SEE a pig hooked to a plough. Bet they could plough the back 40 in under an hour.....doubt the rows would be straight...but hey you could call it new age ploughing and everyone would be doing it :mrgreen:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:25 pm

Sky, your pig would be pre-ploughing with nose too!

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:28 pm

I approve. Double-digging is a time-honoured method.
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:29 pm

Win win all around :lol:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by ranechild » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:20 pm

Silly!

But yes, MissK, consider compiling a book. You could get published with a book speaking to American IRN owners and the particular flora and fauna suggested for them here.

Extra income for buying more budgies?

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:34 pm

Oh, good gosh. FAR too lazy.
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:51 pm

I'd rather plough with a pig :wink:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:54 pm

Seriously!

And yet... and yet.... what would you want to see in such a book?
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:57 pm

Pictures!!!! :mrgreen:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:52 pm

:twisted: :lol:
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AlphaWolf » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:37 pm

And your kitchen! :lol:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:44 pm

Cooking with MissK :lol:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AlphaWolf » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:47 pm

Maybe how to use a smart TV. Gosh too complicated! :D :D
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AlphaWolf » Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:48 pm

MissK's arcane bird knowledge. With 600 spells of a tame bird :lol:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:04 pm

Hahaha!

Actually, I cooked a lot today, and cleaned the fridge. While I was reviewing my efforts, I realized, hey, kale, collards, nappa cabbage, sweet potatoes, carrots, whole grain rice, lentils........ except for the turkey, the bacon and the premade lobster bisque (I put some on the rice) -- I'M EATING BIRD FOOD!!!
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:08 pm

I've often thought I'd lose that last 10 lbs if I switched to my birds diet :lol:
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:17 pm

:( If I'm any model, you won't. :x
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:23 pm

We have been forced to switch to the bird food diet, it's the only way you can keep the little monsters to stay at their own plates over dinner!

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:28 pm

Mmmmm...kale. Breakfast of champions.
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:34 pm

Thanks Molossus. I'll poke around. At first effort I found a Pepperburg interview. It actually contains something most amusing:
"We're going on and on and Alex is clearly getting more and more frustrated. He finally gets very slitty-eyed and he looks at me and states, "Want a nut. Nnn, uh, tuh."
Interview is here: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pepperb ... index.html

Not what I was after, but I'll poke some more.

I wish I had a natural Ringneck around to compare with my pet. I'd like to think he's on the "unspoiled natural side", but I would be kidding myself. I know because I see You Tubes of wild birds, and I see my bird makes different sounds altogether. In some ways, that's not too bad, actually. :lol:
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:19 am

I'm interested in the intellectual level of parents in play groups. I had a woman come up to me complaining about how cold she was. She then told me she wished she was a bird because they're body temp was higher so they must never be cold. She then proceeded to tell me that's why birds poop so much. I think I lost 30 IQ points talking to her. :?
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:32 am

:lol: @ mel
There's a formula that situation; the lowest iq of the group ÷ by the number of members in the group = the iq of the group.
It sounds like your play group may be in the minuses.... maybe even triple digits. :wink:

Missk, for random interesting animal intelligence books; http://www.amazon.com/Next-Kin-My-Conve ... 0380728222
I read it about 10 years ago and I'm still raving about it. Also search Project Washoe on the net. Nothing beats a good book though!

Did anyone read the article by Mike doolan? I thought it was very interesting, I am a sucker for anyone that promotes flight in pet parrots...

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:37 am

I'm pretty sure my IQ is what's holding us afloat :lol:
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:31 am

:roll:
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:29 am

[quote="InTheAir"] http://www.charlieandpeggy.com/mikedoolan.pdf
Did anyone read this one? There are some interesting ideas I'd love to discuss.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AlphaWolf » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:14 am

My Dad is going to UK for a business meeting, so I have the chance to get 3 books. So I will definitely get: Don't Shoot the dog but what should the other two books be.
"Live with parrots and you learn to panic"

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:41 am

Can you get a DVD? I think you'd enjoy Parrot Behaviour and Training #1 and possibly #2 from Barbara Heidenreich
http://www.goodbirdinc.com/parrot-store-dvds.html

Ellie.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AlphaWolf » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:43 pm

And what are the best books??? The top 3 I should get?
"Live with parrots and you learn to panic"

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:47 pm

How about "How to become a millionaire overnight" and "How to live forever?"

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:03 pm

I was given Guide to Companion Parrot Behavior by Mattie Sue Athan for Christmas yesterday. I'm about half way through it. A lot of it is great, but the authors obsession with wing clipping is really grating on my nerves! The section on ringnecks says they "must" be clipped to prevent household accidents.
There isn't even a balanced explanation of both sides of the argument in the section about flight. I am rather offended by the comparisons used as an example too. Forum censoring will not allow me to quote one, the other is using the argument that birds that have evolved to be flightless in predator free countries don't miss flight. .. That strikes me as comparing apples to large hairy caterpillars. .. It's just not the same thing!
I don't know what it is like in usa, but i haven't had an avian vet recommend clipping my birds wings. The vets I've talked to have all been for well managed flighted birds.

It ruins what could be a great book in my eyes. Misses out on a whole parrot experience.

Rant over.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:58 pm

If you wrote a book Claire on companion bird behaviour there are bound to be people with different ideas but as long as they bought your book would you care?

Any way l shall not buy the book, l totally disagree with clipping a bird's wings if Mattie Sue Athan wants a flighless birds she should have written a book on companion penguin behaviour!

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Jen&Bug » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:45 am

Great thread MissK! I've also benefited from Mattie Sue Athan's wonderful books and sometimes wondered what else is out there beyond the basic "how to" manuals. I've dabbled in general animal behaviour books, but nothing bird-specific.

I work as a researcher (not in aviculture) so I couldn't resist doing some foraging. I found a good article called "A Bird in the House" (Patricia K. Anderson, in Society & Animals, December 2003), which included a literature review of prior research on companion parrots. Anderson found fewer than a dozen studies, most of which dealt with "the benefits of aviaries or aviculture in institutional settings", and identified companion parrot ownership as a worthwhile area for future research. There doesn't seem to have been a lot more since.

My hunch is that the human-parrot bond is likely to be the next "step up" in research about companion birds. There was a terrific article by Pamela Clarke about this in the latest Parrot Society of Australia magazine, challenging some common beliefs about our emotional attachment to our birds. A version of the article, "Ethical, Moral & Spiritual Considerations of Companion Parrot Care", is available on www.pamelaclarkonline.com/Articles.html I also enjoy reading other people's accounts of their life with birds, (e.g. "Wesley, the story of a remarkable owl").

For the less theoretically-minded, Pamela's website also has some awesome links for home-made enrichment toys (under "Enrichment"): http://www.pamelaclarkonline.com/Resources.html

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Jen&Bug » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:01 am

Oh, after my endorsement of MSA's books I should probably add that neither of my birds are clipped. Researching is just like foraging...some things you eat, other things you just munch on for a while and then let them go...

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by InTheAir » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:10 pm

AJPeter wrote:If you wrote a book Claire on companion bird behaviour there are bound to be people with different ideas but as long as they bought your book would you care?

Any way l shall not buy the book, l totally disagree with clipping a bird's wings if Mattie Sue Athan wants a flighless birds she should have written a book on companion penguin behaviour!

AJPeter
Apart from the wing clipping stuff, it really is a great book.
I'm sorry I put you off it, I think you'd really enjoy the authors writing style and benefit greatly from reading it. Just skip over the wing bits

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:58 pm

You are right of course Claire it is best to read as many books and articles as possible to gain a balanced view.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:33 am

Sorry I've been absent from my own thread!!

This Mattie Sue book, I think, is a very good book. She does advocate clipping, but I certainly hope she has changed her mind by now. It's possible. Honestly, when I read advice to clip, I just gloss over it and keep going.

AlphaWolf, if you are having only one book, I think Don't Shoot The Dog is the way to go. Next could be a Mattie Sue book, or something maybe someone else can suggest? Don't forget books on your other interests as well.
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:09 pm

What sort of book is "Do not shoot the dog?"
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:55 pm

_Don't Shoot The Dog_, by Karen Pryor, is a book on Operant Conditioning. It explains some of the principles of how living organisms learn, and how to use those principles to teach others. I've used what I learned in this book to train my parrot, my dogs, my mother, and my coworkers. Perhaps they might have a copy in your local library. :) Amazon.co.uk has many second hand copies of the older edition offered at a low price. It seems those that ship from USA are actually cheaper to buy, costing .01 (I guess that's pounds?) plus 2.80 shipping charge for UK delivery.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listin ... ition=used

The current edition is offered brand new at 2.63 (and up) plus 2.80 shipping charge, coming from within the UK.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listin ... dition=new

I realize you may, due to your philosophy, not be initially interested in this particular book, but I urge you to look into it anyway. You may read it and discover some new concepts as well as find it simply uses new and fancy words to describe some things you have already known for years. A particularly entertaining second benefit would be that you may learn to recognize and name ways that Billie has used some of the very same concepts to train you!! :lol:
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:04 pm

Thank you MissK, l have ordered a new copy it will be delivered in a few days, l am not so arrogant that l cannot read and learn from Operant Conditioning. And l will wait and see. There is no doubt that Billie does train me, she gets what she wants.
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:34 pm

AJ, I'm so glad you have ordered a copy of this book that I would like everyone to read. I've no doubt you will find it entertaining as well as informative. :D
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Skyes_crew » Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:32 am

That book worked wonders on my marriage :wink:

Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks :lol:
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:11 pm

Glad l am not married!
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:23 pm

I have just read Charlie and Peggy, Claire. It took me over an hour to get through but it was jolly intersting when l started Parrot Speak this was the idea l wanted to get across, understand the bird is to understand the problem, get to know what your parrot is telling you.
Some things l did not agree with but one the whole this idea of flock and the pets bird's understanding of the rules is right up my street. Just this very evening Billie wanted to go to bed early and l wanted to watch "Pirates of the Carribean 4" Billie knows that is she bangs around in her cage even if covered she can force me to turn off the lights and TV and leave her in peace/ but l tried a to hood wink her by coming back in the room and switching on the TV but quickly she started to bang around so l gave up.
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:30 pm

AJPeter wrote:Is the site for companion birds? Not sure if l have the right address "Knowing them inside out" and "Picking their brains!"
I think too much credence is given to people who write books on parrots, to click or not to click that is not the question but unexplained behaviour such as biting a foot might be solved by finding alternative things for your IRN to do once they start a behaviour pattern it is hard to break them out of it. There is nothing as good as observation, and if you bought a book on farming could you run a farm? No you need the good practical experience and of course learn from other people's experiences.
But well done MissK the next ime l need to know my parrot inside out l will come to you.
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I have just read my post again and l think l must be an idiot for posting it, l speak without thinking. But the idea of harnessing a pig to plough is wasted on the pig because it uses its snout to turn over the sod come to think of it is wasted on the plough as well.
Somebody once said a little knowledge is dangerous but that is no excuse for not improving one's knowledge both in theory and practical, putting the therory into practice and the practice into theory.
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Little Buttercup » Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:44 pm

MissK wrote:AJ, I'm so glad you have ordered a copy of this book that I would like everyone to read. I've no doubt you will find it entertaining as well as informative. :D
Missk, I have downloaded a free PDF copy of Karen Pryor's Don't shoot the dog! Hoping it will be nice, interesting and useful :)

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:43 pm

I bet you'll be Amazoning a hard copy soon. I took it everywhere with me when I first got it, and I was really big on flipping pages back and forth. Confession, I'm so old I really love paper books. :oops:
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:03 pm

You remember paper books MissK? Wow! you must be old. :o
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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:17 pm

Very old. Speaking of paper books, this one in particular...... Ah, how's it coming along with yours? :?:
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by Little Buttercup » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:34 pm

MissK wrote:I bet you'll be Amazoning a hard copy soon. I took it everywhere with me when I first got it, and I was really big on flipping pages back and forth. Confession, I'm so old I really love paper books. :oops:
Still have to go through it. Btw how old are you, Miss? :wink:

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:26 pm

So old, so old. :wink: Old enough to know better and young enough not to care.
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:01 pm

I have got to page 18 of Don't shoot the dog and now l cannot find it l think Billie has got it in her nesting box becasue she has been laughing her self silly over what was written.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by ellieelectrons » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:40 am

Hi MissK

I've been tracking down some research on foraging and I found this article:
Engebretson, M. (2006). "The welfare and suitability of parrots as companion animals: a review." ANIMAL WELFARE-POTTERS BAR THEN WHEATHAMPSTEAD- 15(3): 263.

It also has information on interactions between birds of same species and other species that I thought you should find interesting.

You should be able to download the whole article if you do a Google Scholar search. I managed to access it without having to use my university database access.

Ellie.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:20 am

Ellie, wow. I didn't know about Google Scholar. I got that downloaded in 5 seconds! Now to find time to read it...... Thanks!
-MissK

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by AJPeter » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:05 pm

You could down load the article through Bing MissK, it is heavy going.

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Re: A "step up" in research for MissK

Post by MissK » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Thanks AJ. I got it through Google Scholar in five seconds already. If anybody else wants a try, this is how I did it:
1) Google the term "google scholar".
2) Click link for that.
3) Paste Ellie's entire reference to the work into the browser in the middle of the Google Scholar page.
4) Click enter.
-MissK

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