Parrot Speak

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AJPeter
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Parrot Speak

Post by AJPeter »

Does any one get the impression that they are training us? However their body language and calls are a clear indication of what l can expect, l almost get the idea that if she is asking for neck scratch as a way to bite me l can see the glint in her eye and decine not to play her game.
But this asking takes two forms either she holds her head up and lf l try to scratch her neck she attacks my finger but if she she holds her had up an bleats then it is safe to scratch her neck, for awhile but as soon as her body languge changes l need to get out of there pretty fast.
This question of leaving the room does modify her behavour, Billie was screaming for no apparent reason so l left the room
after a short whiile she made her call for me to return and afterwards was as good as gold. In fact she was very playful and fun to be with.
Possibly every parrot is different.
AJPeter
ellieelectrons
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Re: He's biting?

Post by ellieelectrons »

Hi AJPeter
AJPeter wrote:Does any one get the impression that they are training us?
They are most definitely training us! My birds are probably too good at training me! The first time I went to my avian vet he told me as much.
AJPeter wrote:This question of leaving the room does modify her behavour, Billie was screaming for no apparent reason so l left the room after a short whiile she made her call for me to return and afterwards was as good as gold.
I will add that it is not always a question of what works, it's also about how ethical the treatment of the animal is. Leaving the room is an example of "Negative Punishment" (removing something pleasant to decrease an undesirable behaviour). I'm personally not against this form of training, but I do believe that using "Positive Reinforcement" is the best method to use and should be used where possible and that "Negative Punishment" should be used with caution. However, I do not think hitting/slapping/etc or endangering the bird's safety, should ever be used in training.... and not because it won't work but because it builds a relationship based on fear and compliance rather than trust and understanding.
AJPeter wrote:However their body language and calls are a clear indication of what l can expect, l almost get the idea that if she is asking for neck scratch as a way to bite me l can see the glint in her eye and decine not to play her game.
But this asking takes two forms either she holds her head up and lf l try to scratch her neck she attacks my finger but if she she holds her had up an bleats then it is safe to scratch her neck, for awhile but as soon as her body languge changes l need to get out of there pretty fast.
Understanding your bird's body language is really important - it's good that you are developing that understanding with your bird.

Ellie.
zentoucan
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Re: He's biting?

Post by zentoucan »

interesting read.
I followed the link into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement. and had a bit of a read and noticed that negative reinforcement is not punishment yet when negative reinforcement is mention some people think it is punishment and it's to be avoid at all costs. but I read that negative reinforcement is to be used very very sparingly and only by experienced trainers. I also noticed that not all examples of positive and negative reinforcement where shown from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement.
bluffing: there were a couple of webpages I went into and there was one common line, that was to ignore the bluffing behaviour and to continue training your IRN as per normal. but I'm not sure if this is forced interaction. according to ringneck.com. do not to ignore your parrot.
there are some things I agree with like never hitting your parrot or wing clipping and some things I understand from both perspectives.
I need to research some more.
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Bird liberation

Post by AJPeter »

I must admit that my original reaction to being bitten was to strike back but l am pleased to say that l have not lost my temper and struck back or slapped Billie not since the early days of dealing with her. I quite like the idea of telling her "Ouch! That hurt." And then holding my finger and making sad noises she looks at me as l a daft and probalby l am!
I am between the devil and the deep blue sea l hate the idea of training her with positive reinforcements as if she were a lion jumping through a hoop, l prefer a slower response which l think is a natural development of our relationship not something contrived with a reward.
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InTheAir
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Re: He's biting?

Post by InTheAir »

zentoucan: I thought Ellie had summed that topic up quite well in her first post
Negative Reinforcement - removing/taking away an unpleasant stimulus to increase behaviour -
This involves having an unpleasant stimulus in the first place.
For a common example I have heard of with birds is using a net to catch them to get them back in the cage. This is so unpleasant for the bird that some of them will learn to fly straight to their cage when the net is produced. It may achieve the result of getting the bird to comply, but it is by fear of being netted. You need the fear of the net to make this effective, it won't work if the bird likes the net and wants to climb in it.

Another interesting example I heard recently is the trick of pushing against the chest of the bird to make it step up. In this instance a handheld perch was used and the bird quickly discovered the best way to show its discomfort is to run along the perch and bite the owners hand. The bird in question is really quite clever, not every bird will react that way.

An alternative training method is to use positive reinforcers to convince the bird to go to its cage. The bird wants to go into the cage because it has positive associations with that action. The same applies to stepping up.

I don't know about bluffing as our bird has not exhibited that stage. If he tells us he doesn't want attention we just leave him alone or suggest a game he likes as a bridge to getting him on side, but we don't often find ourselves in that situation as he is usually up for anything.
I haven't tried backing off on any other birds and this is not in a bluffing instance, so I am unsure as to whether it is advisable to follow or not. We back off on the first warning and our bird gives a few warnings before he will consider he needs to bite, so we are not running away from a bite just the warning.
If anyone has any thoughts on this I'd love to discuss it in depth! The pros and cons.


AjPeters, I like training tricks personally. I enjoy learning things like juggling (and showing off) so I don't see it as degrading. Our bird started the training buzz in our house by teaching us to fetch objects he threw, he would squeak at us if we didn't fetch!
Some tricks have opened up ways for him to tell us he wants something, he can sit on his perch and wave rather than flying over to us to get the desired object.
I spend most of our training sessions cracking up with laughter about how cute he is and that has turned into a secondary reinforcer.
Birds in the wild forage for their food, I look at it as modified foraging for the best treats. He also likes foraging in his cage above eating from his dish, which is probably why his trick training is so successful.
Whether you train your bird or not every interaction is a learning experience for both of you and your bird will explore possibilities so she can achieve what she wants from you anyway. When she finds methods that work she will repeat them more frequently.
As long as you don't need to resort to using adverse or punishment techniques I can't see any harm in training that way, it just makes it hard to modify behaviour when you have no strong reinforcer.
To have a parrot living in a house an element of behaviour modification is sometimes required..In my experience anyway... sometimes I have to go to work and to do that I have to put bird in cage. And I'd rather use treats than whips.

Regards,
Claire
Donovan
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Donovan »

Okay, I haven't read all this..

But to help avoid biting.. just push back against him when he bites.. they don't like that..

It will help assert -you- as the boss as well as let them know that biting (supposedly) means nothing

just a little nudge
InTheAir
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Re: He's biting?

Post by InTheAir »

Donovan wrote:Okay, I haven't read all this..

But to help avoid biting.. just push back against him when he bites.. they don't like that..

It will help assert -you- as the boss as well as let them know that biting (supposedly) means nothing

just a little nudge
Lol! That is the kind of method that is currently being debated on this thread. Thank you for providing me with some more examples to argue against. Lol
I will give you a chance to review this thread before I refute your point, so you can prepare a convincing argument if you like. :mrgreen:
ellieelectrons
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Re: He's biting?

Post by ellieelectrons »

Hi Zentoucan
zentoucan wrote:interesting read.
I followed the link into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement. and had a bit of a read and noticed that negative reinforcement is not punishment yet when negative reinforcement is mention some people think it is punishment and it's to be avoid at all costs. but I read that negative reinforcement is to be used very very sparingly and only by experienced trainers. .
No, you are right, there is negative reinforcement and negative punishment. The difference (as I understand it) being that negative reinforcement involves removing/taking away an unpleasant stimulus to increase behaviour and negative punishment is removing/taking away a pleasant stimulus to decrease behaviour. The NOT RECOMMENDED for Negative reinforcement and the USE WITH CAUTION for Negative punishment came from my notes from a Barbara Heidenreich session. You may disagree with her level of recommendations and that's okay. However, I think the main thing to come from it is that the most recommended way of interacting with your bird is positive reinforcement and I think most reputable sources would probably agree with that.
zentoucan wrote:I also noticed that not all examples of positive and negative reinforcement where shown from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement.
Correct - some came from the workshop and some came from me trying to interpret the meaning of each of the terms and relate to experiences I have had or heard about. I wasn't sure I had all of the examples right, so I'd be happy for you to come up with some other ones. I also found that I couldn't find a parrot example of Negative Reinforcement in any of my notes or find one on Wikipedia.

Also, I chose the wikipedia articles because it reinforced my notes from the workshop I attended, but in general I don't take Wikipedia as my final, authoritative source of knowledge.

Thanks for taking the time to go through the article Zentoucan. Take care.

Ellie.
ellieelectrons
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Re: He's biting?

Post by ellieelectrons »

AJPeter wrote:I must admit that my original reaction to being bitten was to strike back but l am pleased to say that l have not lost my temper and struck back or slapped Billie not since the early days of dealing with her. I quite like the idea of telling her "Ouch! That hurt." And then holding my finger and making sad noises she looks at me as l a daft and probalby l am!
It can be hard not to react to being bitten. Most everything I've read, however, indicates that reaction in any form can be reinforcing to the bird. I still do react when I get a bite but I try not to go overboard with my reaction and calm down as quickly as possible. This article has a slightly different approach to biting and my help you:
http://goodbirdinc.blogspot.com.au/2012 ... -bite.html

AJPeter wrote:I am between the devil and the deep blue sea l hate the idea of training her with positive reinforcements as if she were a lion jumping through a hoop, l prefer a slower response which l think is a natural development of our relationship not something contrived with a reward.
Think some more about positive reinforcement. In my experience it helps the natural development of the relationship tend in a positive direction. For your bird, it makes interactions with you a pleasure rather than a chore or something to fear. Over time your bird may become compliant but you don't want a bird who is merely compliant, you want a bird that is happy. Positive reinforcement also helps you develop a language between the two of you. Positive reinforcement is used in trick training but it doesn't have to be used for trick training, it can also be used for basic husbandry and handling. It's okay if you don't like the idea of trick training. I personally like trick training and find that the birds enjoy the stimulus. You can see some of the things they have learned on my youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ellieelectrons/videos

Can you tell me more about what you don't like about positive reinforcement? It doesn't have to be done with treats, although treats to prove a good motivator for ringnecks in particular.

Keep in mind that if you are not using positive reinforcement, you are most likely inadvertently using one or more of the other techniques (positive punishment, negative punishment, negative reinforcement) and do you want to build your relationship with your bird by using these techniques that lean towards at best, compliance rather and doing the minimum and at worst, fear.

Ellie.
MissK
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Re: He's biting?

Post by MissK »

I'd like to get to the heart of what positive or negative reinforcement means to me in the relationship between Human and Ringneck: Reinforcement provides a point of communication between the two parties. Without this communication, or "feedback", learning on either side of the relationship would be virtually, if not actually, impossible. Every action of one party is likely to elicit some sort of reinforcement aka feedback from the other. If one party gives absolutely no MEANINGFUL feedback to the other for a given behaviour they cut the line of communication between them. That behaviour might be reinforced, however, by the very environment or by the behaviour itself. For these reasons it is counter-productive to seek to avoid providing reinforcement.

AJ, I suspect you feel love and respect for your bird and shrink from what you may see as rote conditioning or possibly even manipulation of that bird. You may even prefer to see your bird as an equal to yourself. I feel you do, indeed, have equal "basic human rights", but you are very different creatures. Unfortunately, you and the bird have little common language between you. Saying "Ouch! That hurt!" does not mean to the bird what it means to you, or even to a puppy. Even if the bird did understand, what motivation would it have to care? What you do have in common between you are the universal desire for sustenance, safety, and comfort, and the universal aversion to danger, discomfort, and hurt. Until you have forged some relationship between you, these are the points for potential meaningful reinforcement.

I urge you to consider that positive and negative reinforcement are at work in ways you may not recognize. For example, I can walk. Reinforcement taught me to walk. Someone smiled and called (most likely), possibly offered me something I liked, in order to motivate me to walk. That was a meaningful lure, and I followed it. When I walked, I got more smiles, possibly something I wanted in my hand or mouth, and a big happy fuss was made over me. That was meaningful positive reinforcement. If, instead, they had announced I would get a car when I was 18, that would not have been a meaningful reinforcer. I am sure I got some gentle negative reinforcement as well, in the form of someone guiding me to stand upright and preventing me from crawling. The impediment to my forward movement was removed when I displayed the desired behaviour of walking.

Could anyone argue that I was not well treated in learning to walk? Could anyone suggest I should have been let to learn walking all on my own, with no guidance or support, regardless of when or if I might ever learn? Could it possibly be said that I did not benefit immensely from learning the skill of walking? Would you say I was trained to perform like a seal, or would you say I was taught? I say that training and teaching are simply different ways of speaking about the activity of one party eliciting a particular behaviour from another and creating the likelihood that behaviour will occur upon presentation of a cue. The cue for walking is not, by the way, calling and smiling, but the need to move from one place to another.

For a second example, consider the parrot who does not know to step up upon invitation/request. It is fairly unlikely, though far from impossible, that the parrot will step up without some sort of guidance or lure. Let us assume, for the moment, that the parrot does, indeed, step up completely on its own at the time that the opportunity exists. That time is, really, when you present your hand, your cue, your request for the behaviour. If the parrot is not provided some sort of positive reinforcement, it is even less likely that stepping up on cue will be learned. Really, with regards to stepping up, what's in it for the parrot? Fill in the blank:______________________ Were you able to put something in the blank? That is the reinforcer, the feedback, the magic that increases the likelihood that the parrot will learn to do it again. It is a tool, a reward, a prize. Reinforcement is not a deception or spurious manipulation; it is simply how living organisms learn.
-MissK
zentoucan
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Re: He's biting?

Post by zentoucan »

ellieelectrons wrote:Hi Zentoucan
zentoucan wrote:interesting read.
I followed the link into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement. and had a bit of a read and noticed that negative reinforcement is not punishment yet when negative reinforcement is mention some people think it is punishment and it's to be avoid at all costs. but I read that negative reinforcement is to be used very very sparingly and only by experienced trainers. .
No, you are right, there is negative reinforcement and negative punishment. The difference (as I understand it) being that negative reinforcement involves removing/taking away an unpleasant stimulus to increase behaviour and negative punishment is removing/taking away a pleasant stimulus to decrease behaviour. The NOT RECOMMENDED for Negative reinforcement and the USE WITH CAUTION for Negative punishment came from my notes from a Barbara Heidenreich session. You may disagree with her level of recommendations and that's okay. However, I think the main thing to come from it is that the most recommended way of interacting with your bird is positive reinforcement and I think most reputable sources would probably agree with that.
if training a parrot and you show the parrot the treat and it takes the treat from your fingers and you click the clicker when the bird takes the treat. is this positive reinforcement?
but if the parrot refuses to takes the treat from your fingers after a set amount of time and you withdraw the treat and don't click the clicker. is this negative reinforcement?
zentoucan wrote:I also noticed that not all examples of positive and negative reinforcement where shown from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement.
Correct - some came from the workshop and some came from me trying to interpret the meaning of each of the terms and relate to experiences I have had or heard about. I wasn't sure I had all of the examples right, so I'd be happy for you to come up with some other ones. I also found that I couldn't find a parrot example of Negative Reinforcement in any of my notes or find one on Wikipedia.

Also, I chose the wikipedia articles because it reinforced my notes from the workshop I attended, but in general I don't take Wikipedia as my final, authoritative source of knowledge.

Thanks for taking the time to go through the article Zentoucan. Take care.

Ellie.
AJPeter
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

MissK you are right but in the bath l noticed that l am sprouting feathers on my chest. A friend of mine came today while Billie was out of her cage and my firend sat down in the arm chair and after a short while Billie flew to the arm chair back and climbed onto my friends' head and tried to remove her glasses after l thought my friend had suffered enough l put my hand close to her forehead and Billie lifted a foot and climbed onto my hand. WOW! But as l truned to take her back to her cage she flew the short distance but as we were chatting Billie again flew to the back of the chair and again climbed onto my freind's head and tried to remove her glasses which have dark frames and again l put my hand to my friend's forehead and again Billie climbed onto my hand first lifting a foot. And again flrew back to her cage from my hand this happened again but everytime l try to get Billie to step up onto my hand from her cage l get bitten.
Strangely when Billie flies to my head while l am playing the organ she is quite happy for me to lift her down to my shoulder. And today she nestled upto my neck which was rather sweet. So l get the impression that her cage is her cage come near her cage and you will get bitten.
My roof leaks and l have to put bowls out to catch the drips and we both looked at the ceiling and then at the bowl, I tuttered and she nodded. This afternoon l was watching TV and got up at the end of a programme to say hallo to Billie as she had been very quiet and as l stood in front of her she shuffled to her left along the cage door and when she got to the edge she leant as if she was trying to see round me!
Billie tried to spin out the bedtime routine and would not go into her cage, so l gave up turned my back on her and ignorred her, after awhile she scamppered back into her cage. Phew
I am growing to be like Bille and she is growing to be like me.
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Skyes_crew
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

I have been quietly watching how this conversation has progressed. A huge accomplishment for me. But AJPeter intrigues me. I will make my observation short and sweet. I think we can learn a lot from AJ's interactions with Billie. We all become so focused on the proper ways to train...the proper trainers to follow...the best articles to read. I think we've lost the ability to actually truly interact on a baser level with our companions. In reading AJ's interpretations of billies thoughts and feelings it made me realize that I need to learn to interpret more than just an imminent bite or stress or a sleepy bird. Are his interpretations accurate? We may never know for sure. But the fact that he attempts more than the standard shows a deeper compassion. My hat goes off to you Mr. AJ Peter.
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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ellieelectrons
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Re: He's biting?

Post by ellieelectrons »

I agree with Skye. All birds have their own personalities and work with them is important. Training techniques do have their place though and certainly can help you think about how we can live better in harmony with our parrots.

AJPeter - as you've observed, you may just be dealing with cage aggression. In other conversations MissK has explained how she managed to curb Rocky's cage aggression. I dealt with it by not sticking my hand up to them in the cage. when it's time to come out, I let them come to me instead. I also try to do my work in their cage when they are out of it. If I _have_ to work in the cage when they are in there, I've got them trained to sit on a particular perch whilst I do the work. This doesn't work 100% but it's pretty good. MissK has had more success with being allowed to work in Rocky's cage without it worrying him.

Ellie.
AJPeter
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Thank you Sykes-crew, MissEllie and er others for your comments.
Does your bird sulk? Bilie does, three times she flew to the top of my head as l was playing the organ and twice l lifted her down onto my shoulder with the back of my hand, the first time she flew back because of a police siren in the road and the second time she was showing too much interest in the zip of my jumper so l shooed her away, the third time l was in the middle of a difficult chord sequence and was a bit abrupt as l went to lift her down and she bit me, I leapt up and went out of the room when l came back she would not speak to me just sat on her perch and totally ignorred me. Billie and l made up over Brunch she swallowed her pride and some cornflakes and we became the best of pals again. As brunch came to and end there was a delivery and when l came back with a parcel she flew to the back of my chair to see what it was, after unpacking l offered my hand for her to to sit on but she flew back to the cage and l thought all in good time. We are all different, birds and people but it is good to read how people deal with their birds maybe to try that idea out.
When l worked in a pet shop we had a delivery of caged birds and one a cockatiel was in a cage with a lift up door, the Cockatiel was lifting the door and letting it fall repeatedly but all of a sudden the door jammed and did not drop and the bird flew down the shop and escaped. Another time we had a load of mice, l had to sex them because they were dropping litters all over the place, but even when we had them in different fish tanks they still managaed to climb out and go in the wrong tank but than l noticed the numbers were dimishing and l could not understand how they were excaping until l saw on poke its head up through a drain cover. Once a man came in and asked if we sold mice but when he saw they were all white he said "My snake does not like white mice" V (Science fiction film) had nothing on us. We had a big old Macaw who actualluy laughed when he bit people me included. He used to sit with me at the till and l would say to customers "Charlie will give you your change" and when l openned the tilll drawer he would reach in and pull out coins. I used to pull sorts of pranks on our customers.
Never get a Myah bird they are the most messiest birds you ever did meet.
Never work in a pet shop!
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Forgot to mention that when Billie calls for a neck scratch she prefers me to keep my finger in one place and she swoons about like a snake in a trance, she has her eyes closed and when she is out of reach l wait for her to return to my finger and the scratch but it amazes me how hard she presses against my finger. she is a bit like that spider that eats its mate when she has had enough scartching she wants to start biting. Hamsters do that you can only put a male in with a female hamster for about siz hours when she is on heat and if you are not quick she will eat him after the job is done.
You have to laugh l was reading a book about the Navy and ships have a Poop deck. My living room has a poop deck!
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Skyes_crew
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

I think AJ and MissK should team up and write a book :lol:
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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AJPeter
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Those of you with aviaries might like to consider Quail as a bottom feeder, they lay eggs well the hens do, Chickens need to much gorund space to be kept in avaries and although this is not the page to mention this but you need a gallon of water for every inch of goldfish.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Sorry l meant to mention that l was seriously considering writing a book called "Parrot Speak" so people could understand what their parrot was saying to them but l have hit on a stumbling block, when Billie calls for a scratch suddenly she bites me and l have not yet worked out why.
Today Billie has been flying back and forth landing on my head but when l tried to lift her down l could feel her beak pushing my hand away, strange still better than another plaster to cover a fresh wound. She does not like me putting my hand in her cage but l say the magic words "No biting!" and l can get my hand out without being bitten.
Night time l say "Are you going in now?" hoping she takes the hint and off she toddles. I suppose those of you with children finding working with IRN's child's play sorry about the pun l hate to think if l had children how they would have turned out?
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AJPeter
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Do IRN's smile?

Post by AJPeter »

Does your bird smile? Billie does and today l played a wrong note and l turned round to see if she had noticed and she was grimacing. I can tell when she has some mischief planned as she has a twinkle in her eye and l discovered this neck scratch biting thing of hers is not to over do the scratch, l left her wanting more.

She has been as good as gold today she came out this afternoon and landed on the back of my chair and we watched TV together, we had breakfast together she had 5 corn flakes dipped in water, hand fed, she took each one with one without grabbing it and then she had the top of an orange peeled but not shaken.

She got back into her cage for dinner and was ready for bed (Cover up) at 7 pm

Remember the fifth of Novemember, gunpowder treason and plot what do people do to calm their bird during this time of bangs and whizzes?

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Skyes_crew
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

Please do not ever stop writing...I look forward to your daily updates on Billie. :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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AJPeter
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Thank you Sykes-crew.
Where can l buy Liver salts for parrots? I uncovered Billie this morning and she looked like death warmed up all bleary eyed as if she had been on the town all night, she looked worse than l felt.
But l am glad to say that after l left her to have a shower and came back she was her old self again. Sunday morning l go to church and play the organ there but last week l decided to have a clean under the pedal board and moved it and had an awful job getting it plugged back in again and now the bass pedals do not work. But it sounded okay today.
However Biliie did her best to try and talk me out of going, she flew to the top of my head as l tried to tie a knot in my tie, l was standing in front of a mirror and could see her. I put my hand up gingerly, last time she bit me but l could see her lifting a foot so l gently moved my hand and she stepped up and l put her on my shoulder. Parrots are no good at ties all they want to do is undo what you have just done up. She decided to pull a hair out of my neck but l craftily moved back to the cage and she went back with out turning a hair.
She actually said good by as l left the room (in parrot speak) When l got back home she looked shell shocked to see me and then we had brunch together, actually it is breakfast at 1 pm. She had five cornflakes dipped and shaken, l had muselli then we shared an orange she had the top and l had the bottom.
Then it was snooze time, she has this awful habit of grinding her teeth when l go to sleep so about 2.30 l made her a foot toy, She loves these and eagerly awaits each creation. l roll some millet spray about an inch in paper and stuff it into a cardboard tube some sellotape and she is as happy as a seed boy.
Then after all that affort to get the seeds she dozed off, l felt like grinding my teeth but have been bought up to know two wrongs don't make a right!. So all in all a good day was had by all.
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AJPeter
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Game

Post by AJPeter »

Bilie has this very scary game she plays on me, she sits with her beak open and wags her tongue but makes no sound and then she goes through the routine again open beak almost as it she is stretchng her beak muscles and waves her tongue. So l play along with the game the next time she openned her beak l said "Open wide Say Ah!"
We are both appalled at the amount of water coming through the roof, l have told the Landlord but he says he is waiting for a dry period so he can take the tiles off the roof to find why it is leaking into my living room. It is the constant drip drip drip which upsets Billie and me, but as this has been going on for ten years l know what the landlord is going to say the next dry period "Is the roof leaking? No? So you do not have a problem."
I had to go out this afternoon but when l got back she flew and landed on my head and then I lifted her down to the back of the chair but after a while she went back to her cage, it was a nice hallo. I was thinking that it is the way you say something that has the effect. "Ouch! That hurt!" When she bit me is said with some force, most of the time l say things like "You are a good girl." l feel she enjoys this type of reward.

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photos

Post by AJPeter »

I have taken some photos of Billie but l do not want to down load the photo app is there some one who l can send them to on an email attachment?
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Skyes_crew
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

You can send them to me.



Just mush it all together. I spaced it out so it couldn't be picked up by those trolling programs.
Last edited by Skyes_crew on Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Thank you skye-crew for the email link my tag is elefantis, l sent four photos please pick out what you think will be best. Tonight Bilile and l had a bit of telepathy between us. About 5.30 pm l asked "Are you ready for bed?" And after awhile she goes down to her perch, and l slam all the doors shut double quick in case she changes her mind and then after eating everything in sight her seed tray, the sweetcorn hanging up and then to the other food container with its fresh vegeatables, cheese, and some of my egg Quiche she let me know at 7 pm she was ready to be covered up.
But when l started to wrap the blanket around her cage she kept up a barrage of squeaks l came to the conlusion she was not ready but was asking me if l was ready to cover up. Sort of thing.
This afternoon a bald headed friend of mine arrived and she was jolly pleased to see him flapping her wings and standing on tiptoe even flying to his head but her claws are very sharp and l put out my hand and lifted her down to his shoulder, after playing with the zip on his jacket she decied to give him a love nip on the neck and of course he waved his hands at her and she flew back to the cage. But l was very pleased that she could step up onto my hand without any training.
When l worked in the pet shop l took home two love birds they sang beautifuul but l never let them out of their cage, they had a terrible bite. I also took three gerbils in a rotostat cage home and kept them in my bedroom but one day they escaped and l spent hours trying to catch them l had to move bed on its side because they dived under , l had to stuff pillows under the chest of drawers and wardrobe after four hours l was axhausted trying to catch these little gerbils so l lay down in the centre of the bedrrom with my arms out strechrd, after awhie l felt first a small furry thing climb into my hand and then the other two quickly followed.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Skye-crew, your eamil address bounced twice once as hotamil.com and hotmail.co.uk could you send me an email to establish the link elefantis@msn.com ?
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

I apologize for it taking so long to post these photos Peter. My parents arrived today for a visit and its been very busy.

I couldn't decide which photo I liked the best so I'm posting them all :D she's a very beautiful alexandrine.

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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Thank you M. for posting these for me, the first two photos were taken with Billie's old cage which was larger for her and the last two were taken with the new cage l bought for her with an open top which she adores and also with wheels which l adore! The first photo reminds me of tip toeing through the tulips.
Can you tell what age she is and whether in fact is she femaie from these photos?
Today she signalled quite clearly that the floor standing lamp in the corner was too bright for her, she stood in front of it and sqwawked it has a low energy bulb rated 23 watts and is a bit bright so l changed it for a lower watt cool bulb now she sun bathes under it. She can be quite difficult to get back into her cage out of the routine time which is 5.30 and of course with summer time ending this week end will be 4.30 pm from Sunday. But l ask her "Are you going to bed now?" And after cogitating for a few moments and a hint from me she goes down. So l slammed all the doors shut incase she changed her mind. She made me laugh tonight when she stood on her perch after acoffing everything in sight and pushed the door with her foot, so human!
I leave most of my clocks at the summer time setting which is convenient when guests arrive unexpectedly and look at the wall clock and say "Goodness is that the time already?" but catches me out sometimes when l arrive an hour too early! I read that when it gets dark early parrots sleep longer is this true for our birds?
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Melisa how do you get a photo on each of your posts? Is there some magic formula l tried blocking and copy and paste but no such luck. YouTube have some nice photos and sounds of IRN.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by MissK »

I like the one next to the vase.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

It's attached to my signature Peter. Those are some of my birds made into a signature panel.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

MissK wrote:I like the one next to the vase.
She looks like your typical devious Alex in that one lol
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

I'm not human until l have had two cups of coffee, what are you before two cups of coffee? A Parrot.

I have discovered a very important parrot word, if l cluck my tongue Billie flies to my shoulder and tries to feed me! This morning she was sunbathing against the new lamp bulb.

But I would still like to know if any one can say how old they think she is and is she a she?

I changed the lounge curtains from a nice floral print to some red thermal curtains they might dampen the sound of fireworks, also dug out all my winter clothes and thermals, Billie was interested and wanted to get involved in the packing of summer clothes.

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Oops! There goes another pearl button.

Post by AJPeter »

I am thinking of changing Billies name to Pearl as she has managed to bite two pearl buttons off my shirt, and today she made her way down my arm and onto the swell keyboard of my organ and as she walked on the keys the notes sounded l thought we would play a duet but she was more intersted in the shiniy lights and started to bite them. So l had to stop her and she became very cross that l would not allow her to bite the tiny light bulbs that she bit me!
About 11.30 am she started making a big noise (from Winekta) and was sitting in her place ready for breakfast but l made her wait until 1 pm for Brunch. She has been flying to the back of my chair and quite happy to let me lift her on the back of my hand but she again got quite cross when l would not allow her to unpick the stichting on the leather.
To calm her down l offered two grapes but she turned her nose up at them so l left them on anearby table, while l was out in the kitchen making brunch and it was porridge this morning she was making a dickens of a noise and it was only when l went back that l saw she had landed on the table and eaten the two grapes or some of them and left the remains on the floor. Every day she is becoming more adventuresome and l worry about it already she flies to the top of the door as l open it. I try and make sure that the rooms out side my oops her living room have closed windows.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

But Peter, Billie holidays vivacity can be seen in your Billie. You can't change her name to pearl. That is quite boring. Although I see your reasoning with the buttons :D
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Thank you Melly you are right, l saw behind your blue bird a rubber tree plant OOPS! There goes another rubber tree plant
Billie has only just got used to being called Billie she used to be called Bella but l thought that too common.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

At dinner time tonight Billie would not go bask into her cage when l invited her to go, l think she knows the clocks went back and she had an extra hour but it was Shepherd's tonight one of our favourites. Shepherd's pie is made with Lamb and cottage pie is made with Beef. I put some meat and potato crispy in her bowl but she was more intersted in what I had on my plate and as l ate it she got more and more agitated, finally with the last spoonful gone l took my plate back to the kitchen.

I asked her again to go back in but she just stared me out so l sat down and said "Now l am going to eat yours!" She was off her perdh like greased lightning and was sitting at her bowl before l could close the cage door!

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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

It must have been the night for ornery Alex's. my Cyrano wouldn't eat his dinner either. And it was his favorite...corn on the cob with egg noodles. He played with it and threw it everywhere. When he stepped on to my hand I refused to speak to him. He crawled up my arm and put his face in front of mine. He kissed me as if to say he was sorry and then he went off to play. I love that big goofy bird :D
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Doodlebug »

AJPeter wrote:OOPS! There goes another rubber tree plant
:lol:

I do so enjoy reading yours and Billies antics, you are both very amusing!
Loo :)
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Re: He's biting?

Post by MissK »

Very whimsical.
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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

Aren't Peter and Billie awesome :D I think they should have their own thread. It's under the wrong heading I think. It should be called "parrot speak" after peters book :wink:
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Re: He's biting?

Post by AJPeter »

Thank you for your comments, should l start a new thread? Would it include what has gone before?

How ever today l thought l would let you know of the saga of the Cuttlefish bone tango.

I put a cuttle fish bone in the cage bars but Bilie just ignorred it so l got another one and handed it to her but she just dropped it. I picked it up and broke it in half and gave it to her again but she looked at me as if l was daft and dropped it.
So l washed it in her water bowl and gave it back to her she licked it all over and yes you are right, dropped it. Now when l wake her up and remove the blankets l break off a small piece and give it to her and she crunches it like l do with a peppermint and drops it, sometimes l forget to give her a small piece of cuttle fish bone and she goes bananas well shreiks then l rememberer and all is harmony again.

"Cuttle fish bone is good for you." Or so l tell her. "You won't get kissed by the boy parrots if you don't eat your cuttle fish bone and you will become spotty." So she crunches that cuttle fish bone.

But it is not spots that worry me more over wieght, she wobbles like a duchess, how can you tell if they are too fat? Maybe is too much cuttlefish bone?

When l first got her l bought a *** swing cost £8, it hung in her old cage and she just ignorred it but l had a brain wave today on this cage she cannot reach from one side of the door frame to the other so l hung this lovely swing in the door way but after circumventiong the swing a couple of times she sat on top of her cage and shreiked. And she would not stop so l tried blowing my whistle and nearly blew my top but after awhile l stopped and asked her "What's the matter?"
She looked down at the swing and shriked so immediately l understood she did not want it in her cage and when l took it out, peace and harmony returned.

She used to love a small piece of cheese in her fresh veg bowl, and would pounce on Sugarsnap peas but recently she has gone off cheese and vegs, l put it down to the that time of the month, also l had to fight her off as l placed the top of an orange on her cage she wanted to grab it even befroe l could put it on her cage but recently she hardly looks at it, so now l give a piece of a slice of a segment of an orange and she happily sups the jucie sometime she squeezes too hard with her foot and orange juice goes all over her foot. i do the best l can to cean her foot with a sponge l let her grab the sponge while l wipe her foot, it works evertyime.

If your bird shreiks it might be a good idea to ask "What's the matter with you?" And l think birds like a change from time to time from the routine of living in a cage. The best they can hope for is a change in their diet or a new toy.

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Re: He's biting?

Post by Skyes_crew »

I think you are absolutely correct Peter...they love a change every now and again :D

Ill ask Ellie if she can take all of your other posts from here and put them in to a new thread for you.
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Re: Parrot Speak

Post by Skyes_crew »

Ellie has done it again :)
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Re: Parrot Speak

Post by AJPeter »

Wow thanks Ellie and Melisa, me a new boy l am deeply grateful and very humbled l will try and live up to the honour you have shown me.

Reading these post again one by Claire about training and my attitude to let Billie develop without training, she Billie not Ellie lets me lift her down from most places she is still a bit difficult about her cage and that aggression but what with her demand for a head scratch she allows me a lot more freedom to touch her within her cage area.

This morning we enjoyed breakfast together but Bilie has gone off corn flakes which is a good thing becasue they contain iron and that is bad for our IRN's Billie only ate three cornflakes dipped in water shaken not stirred and then she went to to her top perch to nibble at yesterday corn cob hanging up. I used to take the cob down when l cleaned her cage but she told me by shrieking she wanted it left up, now l know why. I was still eating my porridge but she broke off an ear and lobbed it towards me, it landed on the table about a foot away from my porridge bowl. "Missed!" I told her but the next one hit the rim of my bowl just as l finished the last spoonful l thought the better part of valour would be to make a hasty retreat.

The new cage l bought has a top openning but she sits on the edge of the cage and poops most of the time it misses her seed bowl by a millimetre, but to stop her from contaminating her bowl l folded a newspaper and placed it lower down to protect her bowl. You have never heard such a row, shreiking as if the end of the world had come. So in the end l took down the paper and there was paece in the valley again.

Some clocks in my house are on summer time and some on winter time l get really very confused and tonight I called Bilie to go bed which dutiifully did but after l had my dinner which was ghastly steamed vegeatables and a quarter can of corned beef I realized it was still only 5.30 pm. So against my better judgement l let her out.

But all was well after about 15 minutes she put her self to bed.
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Re: Parrot Speak

Post by Skyes_crew »

Peter you don't realize it...but you and Billie are training each other. :D
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Re: Parrot Speak

Post by AJPeter »

I have written several books none are published l showed the first book to some people one a vicar who said "This is not the sort of book a Christian would write!" The other people were just as diparaging. The book is called "The Sky Children Chronicles" but has nothing top do with the skye but is about about a 14 year boy's (me) old adolescent growing pains
A bit like Adrian Mole, how ever my book has a pretend dragon called Oodles. Ooodles is short on Noodles and the only reason l mention it was to ask do parrots like noodles? Funny enough l bought some sprouted vegeatables and gave them to Billie. I asked her "What do they taste like?" And of course l knew the answer would be "Like sprouted vegeatables silly!" But she did not like them.

Biile does not like the normal parrot food, she throws monkey nuts out of her bowl, and dried red peppers, and dried fruit follow, l made for a her a fir cone stuffed with peanut butter she took one taste and shuddered. I tried honey in the next fir cone, but it got all over her foot then she dropped it double quick. She does not like pelletted food and l even splashed out on some Harriosn's stuff but not she won't eat that either, she is not very keen on sunflower seeds.

She has not been keen on apples but today she ate a slice so her taste is changes all the time. At one time she loved pomegranite seeds but has gone off those too. Mother (my mother) used to say that l was a very picky eater and at 14 l would only eat fried eggs, fried bread and bacon for breakfast dinner and tea, they do say dogs look like their owners perhaps parrtos take after us as well. Or is vice versa?

Maybe one day l shall wake up wirh a beak!

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Re: Parrot Speak

Post by AJPeter »

You could be right Skye, she reinforces her lessons with a nip and screaming, l reinforce my lessons with love and kisses both of us achieve good results!
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Re: Parrot Speak

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Rip Rip Rip i have just ripped up Parrot speak because Billie bit me twice, we had got off to a good start in comunication, as l was drinking a cup of coffee she flew to my shoulder and shrieked in my ear when l looked at her she was staring at the curtains. So l could see that one curtain was blocking her view of the street. She seemed quite happy after l fixed that and she even offered her neck for a scratch but tried to bite my finger so l sat down and then she flew to the edge of her cage and shrieked at the painting of the Bridge at Bidford-upon-Avon so l grasped the nettle and assumed she wanted the mirrow back.
I got the one from the kitchen which has a nice frame and as soon as it was hung she did a Cock a doodle do in front of it so l know she was pleased to have it back. I took the other mirror down becasue she spent more time talknig to the mirror than talking to me!
I was trying to clean her cage and she was fussing about then she bit me. And then started to show off in front of the miorror, so l took it down and put the painting back. I tried to show her that kissing it better would solve the problem but she just gave me a fish eye stare.
So l sat down and played the organ she flew to the top of my head and l went to lift her down she bit my finger right on the knuckle and blood spurted out. This reminded me 30 years ago when l worked in a pet shop and the resident Macaw loved to hold your finger in his beak while he felt with his tongue for your knuckle and bit hard, he loved the taste of blood, so l had this vision that Billie would sit on my shoulder and go for the jugular and it would be the cup of grace.
After the blood stopped flowing l sat down to play again and Billie flew towards me but l waved my hand in the air and this made it clear to her that there was now no landing. She went back to her cage and sulked and l moved to the arm chair and had a md afternoon nap.
When l awoke l went over to her cage to asked her is she was sorry she bit me and she offered her neck for a scratch and made no atempt to bite me so l took this as a sorry and made her promise to be better behaved if l bought back the mirror and we rubbed noses to seal the bargain, I again hung the mirror and true to her word she has been very good, even flying to my head when l had a little play on the organ l lifted her down to my shoulder and she nibbled the zip on my pullover, we had dinner together and l noticed she kept looking at the clock and when it was 6.45 pm she asked to go to bed. So ended a day and a half, here wait a minute what's all this torn paper on floor doing there? AH! Any one got the sticky tape?
AJPeter
Ps Is there any limit to what l can write?
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