Establishing yourself as 'top bird'

[Caitrose96]

Hi guys,

I'm in desperate need of help, my Alexandrine is about 10-12 weeks old and he thinks he is top bird, well he doesn't think this; he is.
I am trying so hard to change this but i really need some help. He is extra protective of his play stand, cage, toys and food. Even if i am bringing more food, he will attack me and take it for himself.
He bites me like crazy and when i try and take him off me he bites me even harder.
Despite having said this he is a really sweet bird (usually) and loves spending time with me.
I have tried a few different techniques, when he does an undesired behaviour i make him step up onto my hand and say 'no' in a soft but stern manner and then i place him on his perch. Another one i have tried is the 'ladder' technique, where after he does something that i do not like i repeatedly ask him to step up to establish myself as 'top' bird. However what i found with the first technique is that he runs quickly up to my shoulder and when i go to place him on his perch he gives a very very hard bite. With the ladder tecnhique he just begins to bite my fingers.

I am in desperate need of help, and i really hope i haven't bitten off more than i can chew by purchasing and Alex. Please help me, i love my bird to pieces and what to have a safe and healthy relationship for both parties.

Thankyou
Caitlin

[InTheAir]

Hi there,

Here is an old thread that adresses the topic of dominance. http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/vie ... =dominance

Aggression is likely to to stem from fear, distrust, frustration or simply being quite happy doing his own thing, rather than a bird trying to establish a 'top position' in the flock. I haven't had to deal with cage aggression myself, but missk has written a lot of good information about blocking bites etc on other threads.

I hope you don't mind me explaining why your first training method is not likely to work. I always breakdown exactly what I am doing in my own head so I ensure that I am not sending mixed signals. Admittedly, I did rather annoy my boyfriend last night by pointing out why our bird wasn't learning a new trick bf was trying to teach him... I will try to be more tactful.

When your bird doesn't do what you want, you make him step up and tell him 'no'.
When your bird steps up he has just done a very good thing and when you say 'no' he will be associating his last action with that 'no'. Therefore you are effectively telling him off for stepping up, if he understands 'no' at any rate.
The actual behaviour you don't like is being rewarded with the opportunity to step up, in some cases to climb up to your shoulder.
I can see some possible outcomes of this that are less than desirable
A. Bird begins to notice that he gets to climb on you when he bites you. He bites you whenever he wants to climb on you.
B. Bird develops an aversion to stepping up because he gets told 'no' when he does. You have to force him to step up, he bites more, this can escalate. Either he bites harder or starts flying away, if he is clipped he will bite harder.
That's how I see it rolling anyway.

I don't understand the second method at all, sorry. Your bird does not understand that you are 'putting him in his place', he gets sick of stepping up and stepping up and tells you by biting you. "I am bored of this game now, mum" chomp!
This could also lead him to be reluctant to step up and more likely to bite.

The best way I have found to work with a parrot is to convince him you are a fun friend, parrots are equals with each other so treat him as your equal and respect him. Convince him you coming into his cage area is a great thing that he welcomes. This is fairly easy to achieve using positive reinforcement.

I highly recommend http://www.goodbirdinc.com. I think investing in her dvd of how to understand parrot body language would be very useful for you as well as reading her articles and blog.
Another useful website is http://www.behaviorworks.org. There are great articles and the pocketsized behaviour guides are invaluable.

When we first got the bird I tried to get him to comply at all times for a few weeks, as my horse training background was heavily based in expecting obedience. It was not working with little parrot at all, he got less interested in interacting with me. I switched my training method to reward based and now he is super enthusiastic about anything I ask him to do.

I hope you don't mind my rather frank breakdown of your techniques and you find the links useful.

Regards,
Claire

[Caitrose96]

Thanks so much for your reply! I too come from a horsey background and I am much more used to them then birds.
I'll definitely try your positive reinforcement methods and the way you broke down what I was doing makes a lot of sense now!
He is a super friendly bird which makes me think his dominance isn't fear based as he flies to me constantly, but who knows, I might just be misreading him!
I'll definitely have a look at the links you sent me

Thanks again!!!

[Skyes_crew]

Hi caitrose. The only thing I would add is that alexandrines can be aggressive at this age for absolutely no reason. Mine was too. It seems to last about 4 weeks. I ignored the behavior completely. I stayed away from his beak. Handled him minimally. We trained on his perch only. I let him have more time to just explore on his own. And I noticed that if he was above my eye level he was more aggressive so I kept him to lower perches and no shoulder. Then one day out of the blue he stepped onto my hand with no growling, no nipping, and I tentatively brought him close to cuddle him because I missed it and he rubbed his beak against my cheek. He's been fine ever since. He still gets grouchy when he's tired...but at least my fingers are safe now

[Caitrose96]

That is definitely good news! I try to keep him away from me when he acts like this, but he just comes straight back to me. So it gets a bit tricky at times.
I'll tough it out though, and hope that he returns to his affectionate self as soon as possible!!
Thanks for your reply!

[Doodlebug]

Then one day out of the blue he stepped onto my hand with no growling, no nipping, and I tentatively brought him close to cuddle him because I missed it and he rubbed his beak against my cheek. He's been fine ever since. He still gets grouchy when he's tired...but at least my fingers are safe now

*Sighs* I hope and pray this will be me one day! I feel for you Caitrose, mines a biter too but for the moment I am giving him space and not forcing myself on him, he seems happier now but I still want him to be happy, but on me!

[Skyes_crew]

Loo...dudes will get there.

Caitrose...when he flies to you, ignore him. Alex's hate to be ignored. Now when I ignore him he scrambles up my arm and bends his head in front if my face and nibbles my chin as if to say "excuse me, I'm talking to you!"

Let me also clarify that I'm not saying that birds in general being above eye level can cause dominance/aggression issues. I'm only stating that I noticed it does seem to affect young Alex's.