Advice needed about behaviour pretty please!

[Doodlebug]

Hi all, not been around for awhile, been a bit out of sorts.

Things are going good with Doodlebug, (pretty sure hes a boy now as he displays the heart shape with his wings whilst stretching?) He comes out every day and has a healthy sense of curiosity! But he has the devil in him the last month, you can see it written all over him!
I'm not sure whether its due to moulting-pin feathers everywhere, or whether he is bluffing maybe? He is five months old now.
He hasn't really got past the landing on us stage although he only seems to want to land on you if he wants to bite you, not if he wants something you've got. He flys to my shoulder and i just know hes going to bite my face if i dont get him off. He actually PREFERS to land on you to bite than go on his play stand? Bearing in mind he has been lunging at me straight away when he steps up on the perch when I bring him out of his cage and whenever I try training him towards stepping up on my finger, I just wondered whether I should kinda take note of his body language and leave the training til this period is over? And any tips on how to carry on training when all they are interested in is biting! I know this is typical behaviour but I'm not sure what to try now even though I've trawled through the posts on it all As I was writing this he landed on my hand and bit me the bugger!

Any advice greatly appreciated, yours frustratedly, Loo

[MissK]

Hi Loo,

I'm sorry you've got this trouble, but glad to see you back.

I don't know anything about bluffing, really <insert standard disclaimer here>, BUT that doesn't stop me from having something to say! (Of course.)

I have the distinct feeling that sometimes my Ringneck is interested in interacting in some way (with me or with an object) but lacks confidence about it and chooses the time honoured method of striking or biting. I'm not sure if that conveys my meaning, so I'm going to resort to the anthropomorphic conversation~

Human: I'm just standing here, looking at the bird.
Bird: There's an interesting human. I want it. I'm going to go to it.
Human: Hey, the bird's on my head!
Bird: OMG, what do I do now? I'm on the human! I wasn't prepared for this! What do I do now? I only really know how to bite, step up, and eat treats. There's no place to step. There's no treat. I'm really concerned. PECK, PECK, PECK, PECK!!!!
Human: OW! He did it AGAIN!

Will the bird land on your hand instead? If he is flying to the head, and you see him coming, can you put up your hand for landing? Would that help?

Sometimes I see Rocky preparing to take off and fly in my direction, and I look around, and I just know he hasn't thought it through. When he gets in the air he's going to be unprepared because my hand is NOT up in the air, and he is afraid to land on household objects around me. He is 100% set up to land on my head or else circle the room.

BUT, he wanted to go to me, and I know that because I was watching how he acted before he took off. So he's going to land on my head, pretty much. IF I am able to put my arm out in landing positon, he will go to the arm. If, however, I can't get that position, and I put my arm in an unfamiliar way, he's going to have fear of it and either circle the room or, you got it, land on the head. I'm glad he doesn't peck my head, but he is maybe more comfortable with me that Doodes is with you, by virtue of we have known each other longer.

Is hearing any of this ramble going to help you? I hope so. Take from it whatever you can glean.

[Madhuri]

After what i have read, it sound like Bluffing. They do it to the older bird in the flock as well and they ignore them. I think the best is not to do too much training in this periode as you might accidently train some unfortunate behaviour.

I think take it easy with him and hope it will go over again in time. The more you react on his attackts the more intersting it might be for him., ( maybe wear a helmet . LOL not kidding. i have friends doing that when entering the aviary of amazones and macas when they are in hormone breeding LOOL ) no ., but if possible avoid the conflict praise the good thing., Maybe you can trick train some things in the cage with target stick until he can do few things ., ?

Sorry if my english is a little rusty., Hope it is understandable anyway

[ellieelectrons]

Hi Loo

That all sounds like a pretty awful situation to be in. I think the trick to discouraging this behaviour is going to be finding out what is prompting it. I don't really know what to suggest but I'm going to put a list of ideas down and see what you can take from it. I can't fault any of the advice already given, just trying to look into my bag of tricks and see what might help also.

1) You may need shorter out of cage times with your bird until the behaviour changes. I'd recommend when he is out of the cage you, don't do anything else just focus on him. Watch his body language closely. See if you can figure out what is happening in his world when he flies to you to attack you. Where are you in the room? Are there any other loud noises around? Is anyone else around? What did you do prior to the fly-to-you.

2) When Doodlebug flies to you, try to get him to land on your hand or forearm so that you can exercise more control. If he doesn't look like he will land there, try side-stepping so that he has to land somewhere else.

3) Try doing some trick-training with him (eg. turning around on a playstand), as madhuri suggested. This can build the bond with your bird.

4) Always reward your bird for NOT attacking you. So if he's perched somewhere peacefully, offer him a treat for being there and being peaceful. If he does land on you and bite you, do your best to quietly put the bird down without too much ceremony and do what you can to not react. It's not easy, so just do your best.

5) Try reducing his intake of sugary and high fat foods. If this is hormonal then the change to a healthier diet could help balance out those hormonal levels.

6) Increase foraging opportunities in his cage. This will help him expend more energy whilst in his cage.

... and now for a few questions for you.

How old is Doodlebug now? Could this be breeding season/hormonal behaviour? It is breeding season in the southern hemisphere and could possibly be coming up to breeding season in the northern? Does your bird have a strong bond to just one-person? Could it be that he is forming a pair bond with someone and this is possessive behaviour?

Good luck, I hope something here helps.

Ellie.

[Doodlebug]

Hi everyone, thank you so much for your replies, detailed and helpful as ever

MissK- Thanks for welcoming me back, I hope you are well? I completely understand what you mean when you get the feeling our IRNs want to interact somehow. If he is coming to me when I haven't even got anything for him, surely he's coming to me for something? It can't be just to get a taste of me surely! It also can't be for the reaction he'll get because I always say 'Hello!' before I remove him slowly with the perch, but if I have treats to hand I will give him one, or use it as a block if I need to.

He only seems to land on my hand if I have my phone in it, maybe he wants my attention but then doesn't know what to do except bite. I'd love to get him more comfortable with me, and to realise I mean him no harm so he needs not react this way. If he is on his stand or his favourite place to go (not mine lol) -the curtains, I will call him with arm outstretched with a treat but he flies around the room and back onto his stand. It was only a few weeks ago I was so happy that he was coming to us, but now he's so different, and no-one can relax around him when he's out of his cage. He's never landed on my head but my partner says he has had incidents where he's almost been landed on. Now he won't be in the room with Doodlebug alone! If he lands on my arm, or chest or shoulder, he will bite whatever it is I'm wearing several times and it frustrates him if he can't get skin!

Madhuri, thanks so much for your input. I did think it may be the dreaded bluffing but as it is coinciding with a moult which looks like it could irritate him then was wondering if that was the issue. So you think I should carry on bringing him out but not so much the training to step up on my finger? It does seem silly to almost force him to get onto me if he's in a hormonal mood-I sure wouldn't like it!

I make sure I don't react when he lands on me or goes to bite me, and will definitely do some target training with him, I don't want to not interact with him at all as he'll get even wilder than he is now! Your English is very good by the way

Ellieelectrons- Thank you for replying too, your post makes a lot of sense. When he lands on me I never seem to catch him before he takes off, to see maybe what his motives are. But you're right, focussing on him while he is out of the cage will help so I can what may be getting to him. I usually am sitting when he lands on me, he'll come to my chest, or knees if they're bent up and occasionally the shoulder. I am mostly on my own when this happens, during the day when my partners at work and my son is at school. I am normally sitting minding my own business, not eating or anything!

I will take your advice and try getting him to land on my arm, and start training the turnaround, I'd do anything to build a better bond with him. He does twitter away to me nicely, and we have some lovely 'conversations'. I have done what you suggested and treat him when he's on his stand etc, I shall carry on with that for sure. His diet is mostly fresh veg and fruits other than his seed, the only other variation on this is when he has a piece of my toast in the mornings.

Your foraging tips is bringing something to my attention actually, he has gone off all the things he used to enjoy, like crisp packets, straws, shredded paper etc, I will provide foraging things but all he seems interested in is taking chunks out of his wooden playstand and anything wooden, so I've given him lots of clothes pegs etc to destroy. He was destroying his mirror so I had to take it away as I didn't want him cutting his tongue.

In answer to your questions: Doodlebug is 5 months old now, I got him at 8 weeks old. I live in the UK and not sure when breeding season is to be honest?
He has only really interacted with me, he did occasionally land on others but usually only when he wanted something they had, but don't feel comfortable having him land on them at the moment.

Thanks for taking the time to reply guys, it means so much to have your help.

Loo

[Madhuri]

Yes i think you should train him. I also think what ellieelectrons say , maybe a little less out time. you can easily spend timw with your bird without taking him out., I dont know if you know trick -or target training. I used with succes that kind of training wiht my cockatoo , and even thoughj i know they are two totally different speices they are both very intelligent. i taught my Too to turn around , to wave to pick the right card in a game, to put keys in a bowl and take them up again and give them to me among other things.. all this you can do with out really touching him. you can teach him to wave and get a goodie in the cage. you can teach he it turn around. i made little things to hang in his cage so he could spend some time foraging. all this you can keep your bird busy while in the cage. + fresh branches every day if possible.

i think its important to minimise the risk of you and your bird to get on the wrong terms with each other. and if he attacks you , it might in a " fight" between you and him. meaning he get a reacktion from you, and might try again.

You mention molding, and that can also be a reason for the bad mood.. you can give him a little egg, 1-2 times a week. That is protein and since wings are mostly made of protein, that can help him produce new easier .

but together with perhaps bluffing, might not make it better. I will be happy to help you with some of the tricks if you need it

hope he soon will be a good and happy birdie again

[Madhuri]

PS, Thank you
Englsih can be tricky sometimes.. LOL but glad you understand what i write

[Doodlebug]

Hi Madhuri I started the turnaround trick today, I think Doodlebug will get the hang of it soon but today he kept looking at me like he was confused as to why I was making him do this! Oh and trying to bite obviously! I used a food lure and kept repeating the word turnaround throught the exercise, is that ok or should I only say it the once at the start?

I have indeed been using target stick and clicker, its been very useful and that's how I got him out of the cage for the first time.

His moult is making him look even more psychotic lol, he is all scraggy and scruffy and feathers all flat. Where has my fluffy baby gone? I will try to post a photo but have only done it once so hope it turns out ok!

This is him when he was a bit friendlier...

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Loo

[Doodlebug]

Ok that didn't work, I'm so rubbish at this!

Will try again now.

[Madhuri]

Aw he looks really cute !!

I think maybe wait with the command sound til he know what its all about., When you get him to turn, praise him and reward. if you put the command on before he is sure about the trick, you might in the end have taught him not to turn before you have said it 2- 3- 4- times

When he get the idea of what you want him to do, then you can begin to put the word on. best only do the trick a few times at a time and stop before he get tired of it. if he does right , praise him and stop the rehersal.. maybe do another trick or stop all together. Then you can do it again a little later

have you taugth him to wave ? or is it just coincident he does it on the photo? Looks really cute !

[Doodlebug]

Hi madhuri, thanks for your advice

Doodlebug has been out for most of the day so far and I have to say he's been very good and not bitten me once. Yet! I've had him on my lap with a box of goodies, wooden pegs, pine cones that I've baked, bottle caps, various nuts in shells, sugar snap peas and knotted bits of pandanus leaves. He's even put up with a bit of stroking of the end of his tail before turning around so I can't reach. So I'm a very happy Loo today

Hope you are well and having a good weekend

[Madhuri]

Sounds lovely.

have a great weekend yourself

[Doodlebug]

Not having such a good day today

He was so good yesterday, calm, well behaved and no biting. Today his flat feathers are back, the devil is in his eyes and he's lunging and biting when I ask him to step up on the perch when he (constantly) goes on the curtains.

His flew onto my shoulder so removed him and treated before he bit my ear. I was so happy at the weekend as he was so good. Now he's into everything and being very aggressive, even with his toys.

Oh well..!

[MissK]

Sooooooooooooo..............

What's different between then and now, other than the bird's behaviour? Something in the environment? Timing? What?

[Doodlebug]

Hi MissK.

Well the only thing that's different I guess is that my partner wasnt there. But he doesn't really interact with him anyway? He will try landing on him but my partner is a bit scared of him so will flinch and it frightens Dudes away again. The only thing I will say is a couple of times my partner has done this loud whistling which Doodlebug seems to like, and the wings go up send the eyes pin then the feather fluff-you know when they get a bit sexy? I didn't know if that was too early for that kind of behaviour, as far as I know Doodlebug is just over five months old, when we got him the breeder said he was eight weeks old but had all his feathers so do you think he's older than I think?

Like I say my partner ignores him for the most part, will occasionally give him some of what he's eating, but when he was there at the weekend Doidlebug was out all day, he didn't lunge once, I took him out if the cage with no fuss and he even explored in his treasure box full of goodies on my lap for a while. He landed on my wrist too and didn't bite me, but my partner was out of the room during these moments so I don't see if this is the connection we are perhaps looking for?

Thanks for your perspective, Loo

[Doodlebug]

Apologies for bumping, but can anyone see any links to tell what's going on with my Doodlebug?

I'm not convinced it's the non-prescence if my partner that makes him bitey, and I will let the bird be unless he wants to come to me.

Any advice or suggestions greatly appreciated

Loo

[Madhuri]

I think you are doing a great job. I wouldnt let him on your shoulder until you trust him and he have stopped his attacks.

I would put him back in his cage or on his play stand. til he calm down. avoid too much eye contact. talk to him while in the cage and treat him when doing good.

Keep up the good job, And remember its a parrot. They have thier own mind and a short fuse.,

[Doodlebug]

Thanks Madhuri.

I always remove him if he's up high on me as I can't see enough of his body language to know if he's about to strike. If he comes to my lap I don't mind so much, if toys or food are to hand I will always try to interact with him, I just wish I could get rid of the step up perch and have him on me without biting or even to add things to his play stand while he's on it would be nice too.

I want him to realise I will never hurt him, but unfortunately I can't say he shows me the same courtesy.

Loo