Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Moderator: Mods

Post Reply
jmlw7
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:58 am

Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by jmlw7 »

Hi all, I figured I needed to start a new post about female behaviors because we cant tell what is hormonal and something we have to put up with until mating season is over - or what is actually in our control with a new young IRN. Any helpful suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thanks to Ellie so far with all of her information on Janey... but we have more questions now (sorry for the long post). Any and all insight welcome!

We've had Remy since April of this year and got her at 8 months old. She is almost 11 months now. It's been quiet the journey, with all of her stages since she came home. In the beginning, she was clipped and scared and bit hard enough to draw blood over and over. We thought it was bluffing and treated it as such and that "phase" went away after several weeks as we taught her to step up, etc. After she became comfortable stepping up to us, her molt started and she became grouchy and didnt like to be touched, but still had a great diet of mostly veg and some fruit and seeds and still seemed happy stepping up, etc. We actually thought she was a male until her molt started nearing the end and she started becoming super affectionate and wanted to be close - like right near our faces close - and would always get in the female mating position and cluck. We realized this was when summer was starting and mating season was in full force. So we now assume she is a female. We literally got her right before mating season! :roll: little did we know what we would be facing!!! With that said, here are the questions:

1. Moodiness - Is this a typical female thing or just during mating season? She has gotten to the point where she no longer likes to step up to me, only my fiance. Whenever I talk to her or put my finger up, she pins her eyes, bows her head and fluffs up her feathers and gets in the mating stance. Sometimes I give in and pet her head only and she seems happy about it. Other times I walk away, sometimes my fiance has to get her to step up instead. But within the past couple of days, whenever she does this and I pet her head, she snaps at my finger instead. I dont pull away, and she grabs onto my finger with her beak in a snappy nippy sort of way, but just gently nibbles on my finger and licks it, but last night that turned into a harder bite. I pushed into her beak and she let go and got in the mating position again? It makes no sense.

2. Wings - her wings are growing in now and she is becoming very good at flying. She flies from room to room, from the bed to the towel rack in the bathroom, to the perches in the living room, etc. She always follows us wherever we go. God forbid the two of us are in different areas of the apartment at one time, she will go from one of us to the other back and forth over and over. Over the past week, she is starting to fly AT me when Im unprepared. :roll: She flew at my head last night, landed on my back, she is all over the place and cant make up her mind but its stressful because I start to duck when I hear her wings flap. If Im facing her, and put my finger out while she is already airborne, she will land on it. But other times, she will just fly around everywhere like a crazy birdie, landing for 2 seconds from place to place at wherever she wants including me. This I feel like if not hormonal could become a behavioral issue as it seems like she thinks she has control over the entire apartment including us. Do we clip again to get her to stay on her feet during mating season, or just wait it out until mating season is over? Its annoying actually as we cant even cook in peace sometimes. I should point out this usually only happens in the evenings on the weekdays when we get home from work and she only has a couple of hours out of her cage, so we've been adding the tired factor to it as well, but still.

3. Vocal - she is MUCH more vocal than the first two months we had her. She is getting louder and louder, even if its just her happy tweeting. A lot of times its communication and isnt screaming and she is just calling out to us, but its still extremely loud. We havent had any neighbor complaints yet, but we are waiting for it. It usually happens after she lands somewhere. When she is loud, we turn our backs and walk away. She doesnt care, she will be loud to herself. When she REALLY wants attention, she will quietly whistle because she knows thats all we respond to and talk in quiet voices back to her. But overall she is loud sitting, loud flying, just loud in general. Will this lessen in the fall?

4. Obsession - she becomes "obsessed" with things she likes. In particular, we've had a shower perch on our large dining room mirror for the entire month of June and took it down in July because she wouldnt leave it. There are toys hanging from it and sometimes she would chew and play on it, but she barely went anywhere else. She didnt hang out with us, didnt want to go into her cage, didnt play with any of her other toys or anything. After we took it away, she has been SUPER feisty, cant make up her mind about where to go or where to land or what she wants to do. Today, my fiance put the perch back on because he had to work from home and she was being so loud. The instant she got on it, she started clucking to her reflection and quieted down entirely. We have no idea if we should encourage or discourage this obsession with the perch/mirror. She definitely loves it that's for sure.

5. Cage time - this is really a question on what is suggested in general. Every time we are home, she is out of her cage. We have never been home with her in her cage except for bedtime. On weekdays, we usually take her out when we get home around 7-730pm, put her in around 8-9pm, and stay in the room watching tv for another hour before we leave her in complete darkness til the morning. On the weekends, we leave her out all day long and put her to bed a little earlier. Does this matter? She has started throwing fits every time we put her to bed lately. She eventually settles down, but she used to put herself to bed and doesnt anymore ever since we changed the interior a bit. Should we limit her out of cage time on the weekends so she feels more comfortable with us home and her in her cage? We feel bad, but dont want to encourage bad or controlling behavior.

6. Age - Aside from the female thing, is this all typical of age considering she is still a baby under a year old???? Will it get better as they age?

We love her, but man is it exhausting! Sometimes we chalk it up to age and we say "she is just a baby", or hormones "she makes no sense, its mating season", or tiredness "she probably didnt nap today and she is sleepy and grumpy". Other times we just feel like she is messing with us and being a brat. We want her to be comfortable as possible, but definitely do not want her spoiled.

We are jealous of all the male IRN owners. :| Thanks in advance, we know this is asking for a lot of advice!
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by MissK »

Hi. You know I have the opposite bird from you, a mature male. And I'm just shooting in the dark, here, but my gut says ditch the mirror and gradually (I said gradually, as in can be measured in individual minutes) increase the amount of time the bird is in the cage while you are home. It is a disservice to her to let her believe she is always entitled to be out as long as you are present in the home. You should prepare her for the eventuality that Life Happening will necessitate she be caged while a person is present. I would think meal prep time would be the ideal setting for something like that.

With regards to her flying like a crazy bird and alighting briefly here and there, only to end up flying at you to land, I think this is where the play perch comes in. If you have not already, try and establish a highish perch in whatever room, something clearly inviting and desirable. With any kind of luck (and maybe a dish of treats there), the perch will become the preferred landing site. You could also do some fly-to-my-hand training to reset the default landing site to your hand.

Wish I could be of more helpful help, but as I said, this is just what I feel in my gut.

-MissK
-MissK
InTheAir
Posts: 2040
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by InTheAir »

I don't know much about girly birds sorry! It does sound like point 1 is her way of telling you to hurry up and do your duty though :wink:
Have you tried offering a treat when you ask her to step up, it might distract her... Though I doubt she will be that easily distracted, so I'm not very hopeful that will help.. I think it is important to stop her thinking you are her mate, but I am not sure how to achieve that... Sorry.

This is not very helpful, but it may be comforting: our little boy bird likes being loud too, he will just decide to start yelling random words when the house is quiet. I can't see any particular circumstances that encourage it, he just seems to enjoy a good shout occasionally. I find he will tone it down a little sometimes if I put one of his favourite cds on, other times he will 'sing' along at full volume!
He also flies around like a mad thing, especially if he has spent the day in his cage. He will do laps around the room, we have big wooden curtainrails in every room as well as play perches and he usually lands on them when he's in a zooming mood. He does buzz us as he zooms around.

Nele always has cage time when we cook (birds and stoves scare me). I generally give him bits of vegetables as treats whenever he is behaving well in his cage (his cage is in the dining area, which is open to the kitchen) to encourage him. It does mean he watches me like a hawk while I'm cooking because of this!
Nele can be a pain about staying in his cage when we are home (it's my fault, I feel mean making him stay there), I find putting his favourite music on helps. He happily sings and practises his words. He also gets foraging toys when he is having cage time.

I think a consistent bed time every night is a good idea. Nele agrees too.

On the bright side, Remy has certainly adopted both of you as her flock and is comfortable with you.

:mrgreen:
jmlw7
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:58 am

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by jmlw7 »

MissK wrote:Hi. You know I have the opposite bird from you, a mature male. And I'm just shooting in the dark, here, but my gut says ditch the mirror and gradually (I said gradually, as in can be measured in individual minutes) increase the amount of time the bird is in the cage while you are home. It is a disservice to her to let her believe she is always entitled to be out as long as you are present in the home. You should prepare her for the eventuality that Life Happening will necessitate she be caged while a person is present. I would think meal prep time would be the ideal setting for something like that.

With regards to her flying like a crazy bird and alighting briefly here and there, only to end up flying at you to land, I think this is where the play perch comes in. If you have not already, try and establish a highish perch in whatever room, something clearly inviting and desirable. With any kind of luck (and maybe a dish of treats there), the perch will become the preferred landing site. You could also do some fly-to-my-hand training to reset the default landing site to your hand.

Wish I could be of more helpful help, but as I said, this is just what I feel in my gut.

-MissK
Thanks so much for your advice... You made a really good point, but I really am not quite sure how to leave her in her cage when I am home as I always feel bad. My fiance did it last week because he was working and said that she was bobbing her head wildly for a few minutes but then got over it and played with everything in her cage and didnt make a peep. When I'm home though, she follows me around everywhere so I feel bad putting her int he cage. Maybe we should start doing it whenever we cook like Claire said?

She already has a play area... sigh... I think flight recall training needs to happen soon
InTheAir wrote:I don't know much about girly birds sorry! It does sound like point 1 is her way of telling you to hurry up and do your duty though :wink:
Have you tried offering a treat when you ask her to step up, it might distract her... Though I doubt she will be that easily distracted, so I'm not very hopeful that will help.. I think it is important to stop her thinking you are her mate, but I am not sure how to achieve that... Sorry.
Yes, I've noticed that although the treat doesnt work, it does help when I make her lose her balance first. For example, if she is perched on a pillow and wont step up because she wants to be petted, I'll shake the pillow gently and then she'll snap out of it and step up. Its a little harder at nighttime though.
InTheAir wrote:
This is not very helpful, but it may be comforting: our little boy bird likes being loud too, he will just decide to start yelling random words when the house is quiet. I can't see any particular circumstances that encourage it, he just seems to enjoy a good shout occasionally. I find he will tone it down a little sometimes if I put one of his favourite cds on, other times he will 'sing' along at full volume!
He also flies around like a mad thing, especially if he has spent the day in his cage. He will do laps around the room, we have big wooden curtainrails in every room as well as play perches and he usually lands on them when he's in a zooming mood. He does buzz us as he zooms around.
glad to know Remy isnt the only one... I wonder if they will grow out of the super hyper behavior since they are both young?
InTheAir wrote: Nele can be a pain about staying in his cage when we are home (it's my fault, I feel mean making him stay there), I find putting his favourite music on helps.
Im the same way :( I always feel bad... I guess I need to suck it up and get her used to it.. Basically, she wants to always do whatever we are doing. I'm not sure she thinks WE are part of her birdie flock - I think she thinks SHE is a human like us - only with feathers!
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by MissK »

Let's look at it this way; her cage is her room. It's her castle. It's as nice as you can make it. It's not a bad place.

And how about this? Isn't it better to ease her into being comfy in there by herself than to just drop her in it one day and walk away? Don't think of it as locking her up. See it as training her to a valuable skill. After all, she was fine in there until you came home. If she won't tolerate it while you are present, I'm sorry, but isn't that due to overindulgence and lack of boundaries in the first place?

If that's not enough, consider this - what's going to happen to her the day she needs to be boarded someplace? You can bet nobody will be as indulgent with her as you are. If she hasn't learned to tolerate the cage when people are present, that would be a living hell for her. Also, and I know nobody wants to think of this, what if one day she must be rehomed? Hmm? It happens, despite best intent, that sometimes birds must move on. You have an obligation to maintain her in the most adoptable condition you can. Nobody plans long range to rehome their pet. It always happens as an unfortunate surprise. If you got that surprise, if you had to rehome her next week, would you want to send her into a new life with a crippling social handicap? No. I'm sure you would not. Help her past this.

What I really hope you'll try is taking a moment, one moment, to cage her in the middle of the time she's out. Cage her, treat her, let her out. Do it several times a day. Gradually increase the amount of time between the treat and the door opening. Use a watch with a sweep second hand. Cage her for 30 second. Then 60. Then 90. It's work, I know. When you have it up to minutes, walk away while she is caged. Then come back after a brief time. Work on extending that time. Let her be comfortable with the cage while you get comfortable doing XYZ around the house. She deserves no less.

-MissK
-MissK
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by ellieelectrons »

11 months does seem a bit young for sexualised behaviours but not unheard of I guess. I wonder if breeders have hens that start breeding that young?

Ellie.
InTheAir
Posts: 2040
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by InTheAir »

ellieelectrons wrote:11 months does seem a bit young for sexualised behaviours but not unheard of I guess. I wonder if breeders have hens that start breeding that young?

Ellie.
I think it is more the exception then the rule. We should ask in the breeder section.

But I just had a lightbulb moment.

Jmlw: didn't Remy just finish her moult recently? The moult should signal the end of breeding season, I believe.
Is she seeking nesting sites?

Ellie: does Janey continue hormonal behaviour after her moult?
Skyes_crew
Posts: 1946
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:49 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by Skyes_crew »

InTheAir wrote:
ellieelectrons wrote:11 months does seem a bit young for sexualised behaviours but not unheard of I guess. I wonder if breeders have hens that start breeding that young?

Ellie.
I think it is more the exception then the rule. We should ask in the breeder section.

But I just had a lightbulb moment.

Jmlw: didn't Remy just finish her moult recently? The moult should signal the end of breeding season, I believe.
Is she seeking nesting sites?

Ellie: does Janey continue hormonal behaviour after her moult?
I talked about that with my breeder one day. A year is too young to lay, but not too young to...um...practice :D he also told me that with indoor birds they can be confused of the actual seasons. We play with their lighting. We play with the temps. We feed the same fat content year round. In the wild, their hormones are driven by the hours of sunlight and the temp. Which in turn causes them to eat a higher fat and protein diet. They lay their eggs, they raise their young, then they molt. But birds in captivity usually have the same amount of daylight year round because of manipulation, a lot of us have central heating and air systems which maintain constant temps and we don't alter their diets to mimic breeding, molting, and down time. Except for maybe MissK :wink: but that's why some birds will have a few mini molts through the year or may display breeding habits during a non breeding timeframe. :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image
InTheAir
Posts: 2040
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by InTheAir »

Thanks skye.

Nele would be practising lots this season if he had a girlfriend, he's very good at hanging upside down from the bathroom mirror frame and feeding the birdy in there! He's not even a year old yet.


I just wanted to clarify that it's definitely a hormonal thing.

Excuse my ignorance, will a ringneck still mate without finding some kind of nesting spot first? Even if it doesn't look like a suitable spot you would notice by her behaviour that she thinks it is.
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by ellieelectrons »

They do still mate without a nesting cavity. J & C first mated when they were staying with hubby's parents whilst we were on holidays. They created quite a disturbance for the ladies at my mother-in-laws mahjong group!

Is Remy engaging in cavity (nest) seeking behaviour? This is when Janey's behaviour is most challenging.

As the years go by I really am getting less Janey bites. It's happening as she feels more confident with me. Providing you keep treating Remy respectfully, which I'm sure you will, she will gradually get easier to work with.

Ellie.

Ellie.
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by ellieelectrons »

P.S. cavity seeking behaviour should stop after mounting
jmlw7
Posts: 179
Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 7:58 am

Re: Female IRN behaviors - Need guidance (warning long post)

Post by jmlw7 »

MissK wrote:Let's look at it this way; her cage is her room. It's her castle. It's as nice as you can make it. It's not a bad place.

And how about this? Isn't it better to ease her into being comfy in there by herself than to just drop her in it one day and walk away? Don't think of it as locking her up. See it as training her to a valuable skill. After all, she was fine in there until you came home. If she won't tolerate it while you are present, I'm sorry, but isn't that due to overindulgence and lack of boundaries in the first place?

If that's not enough, consider this - what's going to happen to her the day she needs to be boarded someplace? You can bet nobody will be as indulgent with her as you are. If she hasn't learned to tolerate the cage when people are present, that would be a living hell for her. Also, and I know nobody wants to think of this, what if one day she must be rehomed? Hmm? It happens, despite best intent, that sometimes birds must move on. You have an obligation to maintain her in the most adoptable condition you can. Nobody plans long range to rehome their pet. It always happens as an unfortunate surprise. If you got that surprise, if you had to rehome her next week, would you want to send her into a new life with a crippling social handicap? No. I'm sure you would not. Help her past this.

What I really hope you'll try is taking a moment, one moment, to cage her in the middle of the time she's out. Cage her, treat her, let her out. Do it several times a day. Gradually increase the amount of time between the treat and the door opening. Use a watch with a sweep second hand. Cage her for 30 second. Then 60. Then 90. It's work, I know. When you have it up to minutes, walk away while she is caged. Then come back after a brief time. Work on extending that time. Let her be comfortable with the cage while you get comfortable doing XYZ around the house. She deserves no less.

-MissK
MissK - you have a great point and I 10000% agree, as in October we will need to board her for a week and a half when we are away for our wedding.. plus she isnt too social yet as not too many guests have come over lately. My mom and sis are coming next month with my 3 year old nephew, let's see how Remy does this time as the last time the in laws were over she was super loud the first day or whenever they came too close to her.

Anyway, I'm not too sure if we will keep her in her cage at all during the weekdays as she is cooped up all day long and only gets 1-2 hrs outside time before bed. But on the weekends, we will definitely practice putting her in the cage as we cook, etc and then let her out so she knows it doesnt mean bedtime or that we are leaving for a while, etc. Last night we kept her in her cage 10 minutes longer than we normally do before we take her out and sat next to the cage. It seemed like we were taunting her because she really wanted out. I think weekends will be it really.

As for all of the moulting questions, she is just about done with her molt. She is still losing a wing feather here and there and is growing back under her wings, but her tail still looks full aside from the two long tail feathers already out. She wasnt really looking for nesting cavities too much although she was interested in the couch corner by the cushions a couple of times and we distracted her instead. Thus far, she is obsessed with wanting birdie sex.
Post Reply