i need help fast!

Moderator: Mods

Post Reply
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

i have an irn that was hand feed by me and she is now 3 years old. here diet consist of seeds fruit human food (pasta fried chips etc). i went abroad for a month and when i returned back sky started plucking under her wings and not eating or drinking nothing!! she is very week now! i am hand feeding her again! i took her to the avian vet and her gave me pain killer for the wounds she is making and also medicine for her intestine because her feaces are liquid. is my ringneck suffering from liver failure or because i was away for a month?

please help she does not have much time!!
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ellieelectrons »

I am so sorry to hear about your bird. What you are describing is a health issue and I think your avian vet is best qualified to answer your questions. I suggest another phone call if your questions weren't answered adequately. Did the vet say your bird is experiencing liver failure? If so, I unfortunately believe there isn't a lot you can do. My friend has a bird who was found to have a small liver and his vet gave the bird a liver tonic, although the vet was none too hopeful that it will work - we are waiting to see the outcome.

Regarding what you've said about her diet, it doesn't seem like the healthiest diet ever. Seeds are fatty, fruits have a lot of sugar and the human foods you described are high in carbs and fat. However since I don't know the quantities of what you were feeding her, it's hard to know. My research on diet has been to give your bird high quality pellets and low sugar veges. Fruits, seeds, nuts, human foods are sometimes foods.

When a bird is sick, it is good to provide an additional concentrated heat source (eg. A heat lamp) to a corner of the cage, placed in such a way that the bird can choose to get closer to it if it wants to move further away.

Once again, so sorry to hear about your bird.

Ellie.
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

I believe you should speak very carefully with the person who cared for your bird while you were away. My concern is that the bird may gave been exposed to an ingested or environmental poison, or possibly even a disease. I am not a vet, but this is my feeling. I also wonder if the bird may feel a little threatened by your suddenly coming back when he just got used to you being gone. You might double check to make sure the bird has a stable and dependable routine for the time being. I doubt that at such a young age the diet has severely damaged the bird, unless those human foods were to blame. We have seen my bird lived on nothing but seeds for a decade, and he is in excellent shape today, about a year after a diet change.

It may be quite difficult to have an honest and fully detailed conversation with your friend, but you must. The person who cared for the bird for that month will most likely worry that you will be angry if there were any mistakes in care. They may think you want to blame them. You must find a way to honestly convince them that you will not be angry or blame them if the bird suffered in their care, because you understand they would never allow your bird to be hurt on purpose. Even if you do feel some negative feelings, you must overcome them. This person did a good thing to look after your bird, and probably intended only the best.

What you want to know is everything the bird experienced that was the same as with you, and everything that was different. Did he get a new toy or food or dish, even for a short while? Did something he already had get changed, like food getting too hot and going rancid, or wet and getting moldy, etc? Did he get a chill or meet a new bird? Did he have exposure to a bad kind of metal, in a toy, cage, perch, anything? Was there any kind of draft or frightening animal stalking him? Ask every question and look at the things he may have experienced that are not with him now. If you can, physically examine every part of him. You can blow the feathers to see between them if he does not want to be touched. There is a chance there is some damage, maybe a break, dislocation, or sprain of some sort, even a bite from a bug or small animal, in the area the bird is picking.

It might help to tell your friend that the bird is having some trouble and you want to see if anything he experienced before may combine with something you are doing now to cause trouble. Presenting it that way may help your friend feel you are not blaming, just trying to piece together any clues, which is honestly exactly what you should be doing. It also shows that you are taking responsibility for what's happening right now. This social issue is very important, both for your relationship with your friend, and to get the most accurate and honest report from them.

Last, be sure your vet is a real avian certified vet. If one of them is not available, look for someone with experience with and support from such a vet. Even someone advanced in their studies for the same would be, in my opinion, preferable to a regular dog and cat vet who will see your bird just because you walked in with money. If you can't find anyone suitable, contact the local zoo or aviary and literally beg their vet for help.

I wish you the very best with your bird.
-MissK
-MissK
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

Thanks both of you for your fast reply, my avian vat did not mention she has a liver problem what so ever! He gave me medicine to cure her from picking her feathers! But i read on the internet that picking can also be a sign for liver problems! I asked mom she took care of my baby girl, and she said that her diet remained the same, and she remaind in her place the whole month i was away!

She does not like pallets i tried to give her loads of times and failed, she tried to eat yesterday by her own, but not consuming much eighter, she was given apples and orange,sun flour seeds and peanuts she goes mad for peanuts! But she is chewing them not eating them at the moment, she ate from the seeds with success but not that much tough! She chewed on the apple to taste or to consume the juices!

I noticed as well she feels cold and start shaking when i wash her with the soap the vet prescribed i have to take her out exposed to the sun so she feels warm! How can i change her diet and help her to eat bu her self again?
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

I went to my local bird zoo! The expert their told me that the bird suffers from depression, the bond between me and the bird was excelent now she tries to bite me (not every time) i dont know how i am going to bring her back just the way it was :(
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

Ozzy, I want you to take care not to wet the bird too much when you wash with the special soap. (Actually I'm a bit concerned about the soap at all.) Each time we wet an animal the body temperature lowers. As you know, chilling is dangerous for birds. I cannot tell if your bird is shaking from fear or chill, but as you say her feet are cold, I am thinking you need to warm her up.

I also want you to collect up all your money and buy a ceramic heater for your bird. I have seen them offered for sale in a kit for reptiles, or you can buy the emitter and the cone and ceramic socket separately. You must use a ceramic socket because there is too much energy involved for plastic. It would cause fumes and maybe a fire if you use a plastic socket. You should hook this up in such a way that the bird can choose to be near it for warmth, or choose to go away from it to be cooler. If you don't provide a choice it would be like cooking the bird, not an improvement. Read the directions first. Also, it is important to prevent the bird from touching it because it might burn her.

Here's an an example of someone else's work: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CDkQ9QEwAg

Here on the forum we can't really fix your bird, but we can advise you on what is helpful for most birds regardless of the nature of the problem. Keeping warm is in that category.

With regards to food, you say she eats: seeds fruit human food (pasta fried chips etc).apples and orange,sun flour seeds and peanuts she goes mad for peanuts.

I'd like to see you give her some kale or collard greens, and some carrot. Make her a little bit of boiled egg with nothing on it, a piece the size of a coin to start. Also offer her some oatmeal, plain, made of nothing but oats and water, and not hot. At the same time, stop giving her any other human food that is changed from its natural state, the way it grew. So no more chips, pastas, etc. If she doesn't want these new foods, you must show her how to eat them. Offer her big pieces and also little bits so she can choose which she likes. You sit down on the floor by the cage with your own plate of all this stuff and slowly eat in front of her. Nibble little bits so it will last a long time, to give her time to watch you, get interested, and actually begin to eat. Do it every day this way for a week, and do it before she gets her normal breakfast. You should also offer her some Nutriberries if you can get them. These are little balls of seed and pellet with vitamins and supplements sprayed on them. http://www.petsupplies.com/item/parrot- ... 4Aod61QA9A

I am rather concerned about you and your bird. I know it can be hard to get what you need for your bird if you don't know where to shop. If you are in the USA I would be willing to help you use the internet to find some better foods and supplies, and maybe a better vet, so if you're in the USA, let me know. If you are somewhere else, let us know where. I am certain if anybody is near you they would also be willing to lend a hand that way.

-MissK
-MissK
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

thank you miss k you are very help full, unfortunately i don't live in the US, i live in Europe, in the Middle of the Mediterranean Sea on a very small Island called Malta. there are a lack of avian vets here, so i went to the local bird zoo here! i tried what the zoo told me to keep talking to her and holding her but she is biting me hard, we had a strong bond before i left home, now she is not accepting me back. Also the Island here is very warm climate it goes up to 35/40 degrease Celsius here, do you think i still need the heater? thanks for giving me tips about the food i can give her, i did not know whats best for her also. i hope her depression fades away like nothing happened, also i would like to point out that she is not singing her songs or trying to talk nothing, she is very quite not normal for her, and also she used to go mad when i arrive back home from work, now she does not even care :( i feel very bad for whats happening
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

Ozzy,

A cursory trip around the internet suggests 40* Celcius is about the same as a parrot's internal body temperature. If you are cold (possibly never happening in Malta....) will it warm you to sit in a bath of water the same temperature as your own body, or should it be warmer? Also, does the bird stay outside? Could you simply be using water that is too cold for bathing?

I think a heat source is still a good idea.

With regards to the bird biting and possibly feeling depressed, I would urge you to consider that you abandoned her (in her eyes) for a long time. How would it go for you if your best friend simply walked out without a word and stayed away a month when you used to see them daily? You might feel like that person was not your friend any more. Your bird is not accustomed to you as she was before. Since you raised her, maybe you did not have to make the effort of convincing her to be your friend. You should make that effort now. Also stop doing whatever makes her bite. Speak gently to her instead. Ask about her day. Give her delightful foods from your hand. Spend time in the room with her, doing nothing exciting.

Please try not to feel bad. Something has happened, and now it needs fixing. You could feel bad if you were not going to try to help, but that isn't you. You are searching to help your bird, and that is just as it should be. As long as the bird is kept safe and eats and drinks, this behaviour can be fixed.

I truly hope I was able to give you some help, however small. Perhaps you will take a minute to help me? I am very interested in the dogs people keep around the world. I will never go to many places, so I have to ask people about the dogs where they live. How do people live with their dogs on Malta? What kinds of dogs are popular there? Do the dogs have any special function, traditional or practical, where you live? What do you know about this little one? Here in USA we call it "Maltese"! :D
http://lepetitpuppynyc.com/site%20pics/ ... edayva.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... se_600.jpg
http://www.adogbreeds.com/wp-content/up ... se-dog.jpg
http://a1.cdnsters.com/static/images/do ... altese.jpg

-MissK
-MissK
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

i am not a dog person my self! sorry about that. but yes the Maltese dog is from The Maltese Island! Popular dogs here are Doberman, German Shepherd, Grade Danes, Poodles, Chiwawa, Pugs, Pitbulls Labrador!! Bulldogs are very good around Children! about Sky my Ringneck, she is doing better i took her to the bird zoo she had loads of fun looking at other birds being handled and cuddled, she is eating on her own now again! but still our bond remains broken and the picking remains!

i spoke to the zoo vet as he told me that the bird does recognize me, but its doing this on purpose, he said that she is mad with me for leaving her and she will need to forgive you and then it will let me cuddle her and touch her again without getting vicious bites. my fingers are all bleeding and hurting, she keeps biting me hard and without any seam to stop.

Lest just hope this expert is not crazy or mad! they say that he is the best on the island so i think his opinion may work. also i found a spray called Cease Anti-Feather Picking! do you think its any good ?
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

Ozzy, I never had feather picking, so I have not tested the product. I hope it will work for you.

I wonder, really, if the bird is angry over something that has happened, now in the past. I think this is just an example of humans projecting their emotions onto the bird. I think it is much more likely the bird simply lost familiarity due to your absence.

You'll be OK!

-MissK
-MissK
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

I have read on the internet that parrots and Parakeets can have a depression for real, my bird is suffering from this, our bond is getting better agian but her picking is not stopping, she is getting worse, the spray is not effective!!!
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

Hi Ozzy,

I wish I could help you with the feather picking, but I cannot. I've never had to deal with it.

Here is a link. The last paragraph on the page seems to be you.
http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/applie ... lbird.html

Here is a second link. I have not explored it, but it looks like a good spot.
http://www.featherpicking.com/

I wish you, really, the best luck with this.
-MissK
-MissK
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ellieelectrons »

Hey ozzy

Pamela Clark does Skype consultations and can help with feather picking. I don't know how much she costs. I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap but I have a feeling it would be worth it.

http://www.pamelaclarkonline.com/

Ellie.
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

the madness grows on and on, i finally started to treat my Indian ring neck with king's Stop plucking product, that has a high reputation over the internet that works, but i am getting negative feedback from this product since my bird now started to mutilate at its leg!! i dont know what i am going to do!! my vet is very UN-experienced and i live on a small island which i believe there is no other avian vet's around.

The picture that shows the wound was still the beginning, the wound is much larger and deeper now :(
Attachments
1148195_3437681997469_865752432_n.jpg
InTheAir
Posts: 2040
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:24 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by InTheAir »

Hey,
That's heart breaking.
I have no first hand knowledge of plucking, but I'll put my 2cents in anyway.
I would keep looking for a medical cause if I were in that situation. That doesn't look likely to be out of boredom.
Make sure you are feeding a suitable diet. There is a thread on here about what you can feed an irn.
I would stop applying any anti plucking spray as it seems to worsen the situation in your case.
Talk to Pamela Clark. She does phone consultations, she may also be able to help guide your vet or give advice on disease testing.
I would also ensure your vet has tested for giardia http://www.avianbiotech.com/diseases/Giardia.htm

I hope that may help.


Regards,
Claire
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

I'm pretty concerned as well.

Are you able to put a bandage on that leg, maybe even a shield of some sort, maybe made of leather or canvas?

Regardless if it is being done from boredom, more environmental stimulation still may help, if for no other reason than the bird cannot destroy two things at the same time. Can you give the bird new toys for a distraction? My bird really likes a variety of small sea shells and those little open jingly bells sold for cats. Were you able to interest the bird in some dark green leafy vegetable? Does the bird have access to lots of soft wood to chew? My bird also really, really likes it when I string beads on some cord. He chews the bead off the cord, and then I restring them for him in another day or two. He also likes destroying balls made of woven grass that has then been dried. Can you give the bird an almond, still in the shell, one each day or so?

I'm very sorry you have this trouble, and that it has gone on and gotten worse over this time!
-MissK
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

Yes i covered her wound This morning, but the damn bird found an alternate solution she bites areas that are not covered and mutilates the skin :(, i talked to my avian vet again and he talked me into making surgery for anti hormonal! He makes a small imputation on her back and inserts some sort of pill that lasts for a year and calms the bird down, do you think it will work ? Thanks guys really you are big help
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

I think an implanted hormone pill (which I assume that is?) is a very drastic measure, but I concede you have a very drastic problem. I have never spoken with anyone who has had this done. As with human surgery, I would advise a second opinion from an equally or better trained avian vet. I would even hope the two vets might get together and discuss the bird, since two heads are better than one.

I hope someone here will respond in a more helpful way. Please keep up informed. It could be that you will accidentally become the expert on this particular problem.
-MissK
Little Buttercup
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:03 am

Re: i need help fast!

Post by Little Buttercup »

Ohh, what a problem! That is looking bad. I don't what could be the cause, but try to distract the bird with toys or foraging ideas. Kiwi love a vine ball stuffed with goodies and will keep busy till the entire ball is emptied and destroyed. He will fly from perch to playtree with the ball in his beak.

Ash
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

Can you put a cone collar on the bird?  Like they do for dogs?
-MissK
Skyes_crew
Posts: 1946
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:49 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: i need help fast!

Post by Skyes_crew »

I'm so sorry to here and see all the heartache you are going through right now. Could you possibly post a full pic of your bird? Head, beak, back, both feet, and wings? Also does anyone in the home smoke? Does the person who watched your bird smoke? Have you changed any foods in her diet? Did the bird sitter change any foods in her diet? Can you list exactly what she eats everyday? How often do you you spray her with water or bathe her? I can try to help as best I can. Again I am so sorry you are going through this.
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

Image
JoeysMom
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:59 am

Re: i need help fast!

Post by JoeysMom »

Ozzydeg,

I am so sorry to hear about the difficulties you are having. I know this is a IRN forum, but I have only had Joey for a short period of time, and thankfully I have not experienced any medical issues with Joey. I have however had plenty of medical issues with my Quaker Sam. I am not a vet, or tech (just offering some advice), but I have had my problematic Quaker for nearly seven years.

I have heard may times about birds plucking their feathers when their person leaves them for an extended period of time. A well known example of this would be Alex, the African Grey. When Dr. Pepperberg would go away Alex would sulk and pluck his tail. Once I saw the picture of the mutilation, I would say that simple depression would not cause such a thing. I know that you said vet care is sparse where you live, but if at all possible (I believe it has been mentioned) test for giardia.

The mutilation in the picture is pretty severe. Once the wound starts to heal, I would talk to the zoo keeper about silver sulfadiazine. This is used to sooth the skin, and can help with inflammation. Sam does some mutilation on his legs and our vet prescribes this when it becomes a problem. I generally always have some on hand. I am also familiar with the implant that you speak of. This is called a suprelorin implant. Sam has had this implant before, and it can definitely calm a bird down. But I have mainly heard of this being used for sexual issues (egg laying and other stressful hormonal situations). This Saturday, Sam will be having the old implant removed and a new one put in. My vet has not had any issues with this, although in some small birds the implant can come out. The implant does require that the bird be anesthetized, but it is a quick procedure.

Before doing anything drastic I would definitely inspect your birds diet for any changes. I would also check your birds toys carefully. Toxic metal can be hiding in the most innocent of places. I also second what Skyes_crew said about smoke. Smoke can be an extreme irritant to both the lungs and skin of a bird. How is your birds droppings? Have they improved? Be careful with mixing antibiotics and pain killers. Some birds can have allergic reactions.

Please, if you can post pictures of your bird. I'll repeat again, I am not a vet, but I will try and help out as much as I can. Please update us, and let us know how your baby is doing.

-Joeys Mom
-Joey's Mom
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

I will be posting pictures soon, i am taking care of the mutilation i am rapping healing bandages around her leg, she dosent like it at all infact she started to get all aggressive on me, she wont let me touch her any more infact she bites me when i try to reach my hand and say step up. No there is no smokers in our house, but the bird is located in the kitchen where it always been for the past 3 years next to the window for sun light. Her diet consists of sun flower seeds, Organic pellets ( not her favorit) fruit and veg is minimum since i am giving her the kings stop feather picking mixed with her water, and does prescribe to stop giving the bird veg and fruit will being treated with the product, also the bird hates being sprayed a lot and is afraid of the water pump, it likes to bath in the sink but she does not do a good job at it she does not know how to get wet correctly
MissK
Posts: 3011
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:46 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

Re: i need help fast!

Post by MissK »

Hi Ozzy,

I Googled and found this "Kings Pluck No More" - This is what you are using, right? http://www.amazon.com/Kings-Cages-Pluck ... B002VWX9EE It seems to get a lot more positive reviews than negative, and yes (for those also reading) it does say to stop fresh foods.

I would ask you to try and get the bird on a seed mix, rather than just Sunflower. Something like this would be OK http://www.abbaseed.com/SEED_PRODUCTS/s ... ducts.html They also offer this http://www.abbaseed.com/Seed_Products/1600C/1600c.html which is very similar, but contains a lot of sunflower seed. You already have sunflower seed, so may as well get something without. You can add your own or use it for hand treats. The reason to give different seeds from only sunflower is the amount of fat in the sunflower seed. Especially now since you had to stop the fresh foods, it is important that the bird not just be eating sunflower seed.

It's good if the bird is eating pellets, since it needs *something* more than sunflower, though I wonder why the Kings company lets you keep feeding them and makes you quite vegetables and fruits. The only reason for stopping I can think of is to guard against oversupplementing nutrients, but I would think the danger is greater from pellets than from fruits and vegetables.

Another thought I have had is about applying the product. Since you cannot spray this right onto the bird, can you wet a light cloth with the mixture and wipe the bird with that cloth? If you get the bird to accept this, you can increase the amount of mix on the cloth and eventually get the bird quite soaked with it. IF the bird will let you, of course.

I wish I could really help you, but I can't. Since you are using this product, these are the only suggestions I could think of. I wish you, truly, the best.
-MissK
ozzydeg
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 pm

Re: i need help fast!

Post by ozzydeg »

This is Sky when she was all normal and Healthy looking happy
Attachments
This is Sky when she was all normal and Healthy looking happy
This is Sky when she was all normal and Healthy looking happy
Post Reply