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2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

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Susie Len
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:35 am

2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Susie Len » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:59 am

Hi
Im a new owner of the above and having trouble with taming.

He's so nervous of everything.

He takes treats from my fingers but runs away to eat it.

Please help. I so want to have him outside without flying into the window and trying to escape.

Thank you.

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ellieelectrons
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Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:48 am

Hi Susie

Welcome. Sometimes you've gotta go slow to get there faster in the long run. If your bird is eating treats from your hand through the cage bars, you are off to a really good start.

Other things that you can do in the meantime include:
- make sure your cage is positioned well: locate your bird's cage somewhere in the living space of your house where he can watch what happens in your family without being the centre of attention. Also make sure the cage is against a wall (not a window). This will help him feel more secure.
- give your bird things to do whilst in his cage: eg. foraging, things to chew up (search the forum for these) - introduce new things slowly so that he is not scared of them. Look for fear responses, anything that he is scared of, take out of the cage.
- read a book or use your computer near your bird whilst he is in his cage
- make sure your bird gets plenty of rest at night
- talk to your bird
- eat in front of your bird.

Those are just a few things. There are lots of things you can do.

You might also find some of the notes I took at a recent bird training seminar useful (see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17211)

Best wishes.

Ellie.


"Most people aren't successful because they don't do the right things for long enough."

Susie Len
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Susie Len » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:49 am

Hi Ellie

Thanks for your reply.

This is probably a big no no, but his cage is directly next to a window.
We have a one bedroom flat and the cage just won't fit anywhere else.

He takes treats from me with my hand inside the cage and he will sometimes step up onto my hand to reach it. (with some coaxing). He is so fearful of everyone and everything.

I was sitting in front of his cage with the door open talking happily with him and I started to read a bit.
He flew out and headed straight for the window trying his best to get away from us.

It broke my heart.

X

MissK
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by MissK » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:53 am

Hi Susie,

Please, please take heart. A not-so-tame new bird stepping on your hand to take a treat without biting is a diamond already. Please believe me, you have a gem, and simply need to log more gentle and compassionate hours of exposure to each other as you inch a little closer. Really.

Of course you're going to want to do as Ellie suggests. She knows her stuff and gives great guidance. If I had to pick the three most important things to do with regards to helping your bird be more comfortable with you, they would be 1) Show Only Kindness, 2) Feed By Hand, and 3) Be There. Just being there, doing your normal, low intensity activities, like reading, sleeping, and surfing the net, will let the bird see you are not a threat. If the bird will get on the hand, coax and encourage. It means a lot for Birdie to master this fear.

About the window - it is true that the world outside bears a number of threats, real and perceived, for your bird. Overheating in the sun, chilling in a draft, stress from visible threats and lack of places to hide, along with tempting the eye of potential thieves are the primary concerns, barring flat out escape and loss. If there is no place else to put the cage, you would be well advised to protect against these threats, possibly with covering part of the cage and ensuring the window doesn't leak.

The window can also be a source of joy. In the first months in my home, my Rocky's big cage was against a double window. I provided him a grass curtain, complete with bits hanging down from the cage roof, for shade and cover. He simply loved his windows! There was a lot of natural bird activity, plants, bushes, sky and clouds, changing light throughout the day - all enrichment for him. Unfortunately, the arrangement did a bad thing for foot traffic in the room, and he had to move to the opposite wall. Rocky can still look out the windows, though from farther away. We must live, largely, in the world we have.

Unless you cannot protect the bird as noted above, I think you should be able to keep him there. The single exception I can imagine would be if the sun does shine directly into that window and overheat the space. For now, pull a heavy curtain across the window when you let him out. He will still likely fly to it (light source through the curtain, apparent known path to escape) but he will have something to hit and cling to when he does. When Rocky had this experience I am sure that hitting the curtain slowed him down and let him swing more gently into the window rather than flying on full force. I think this simple solution really did protect him from injury.

Best wishes with your great new bird!
-MissK
-MissK

Susie Len
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Susie Len » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:25 am

Thank you for your kind words. I do take heart from what you have said and I can also say that he has only been with us for one week. Maybe I am moving too quickly for him.

I will continue to feed him from my hand and sit with him for an hour, two times a day.

I just hate to scare him, even by covering him at night.

Susie x

MissK
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by MissK » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:49 am

Hi Susie,

Of course, a week is not much time. You know what they say about drinking, "If you think you may have a problem, you probably do...." If you think you're moving too fast for your bird, you probably are. Score one for you for recognizing it.

I'd say if the bird is afraid of the cover, don't cover him. How would you sleep with a giant monster leaning over your bed? You can get him used to the cover in little increments, starting at the bottom one inch of the cage, on just one side, the window side.

I had some words for Jay, about getting the bird on the finger, and a little personal bird philosophy as well. Maybe you will read them. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17186&p=95889#p95889

Be sure while you are sitting with him you can busy yourself with gentle things that need doing anyway, so that this new behaviour for you will be easy to maintain in the long run. It is also a good way to set aside time to supervise him out of the cage while not putting too big a dent in your time for getting things done at the house. As he is more comfortable with you, you'll be able to fold laundry, dust and vac (carefully, so you don't suck him up), and my favourite, make parrot toys, during that time. :D

-MissK
-MissK

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ellieelectrons
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by ellieelectrons » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:30 pm

I just wanted to comment on the window thing. My birds have had their cage by the window the whole time I have had them. I thought that my bird enjoyed looking out the window. After the seminar I went to on the weekend I'm convinced that the window is a stressor for my female bird and I was convinced that a window is a stress for most birds due to anxiety of perceived threats outside. In my case I've drawn a slightly see-through sun curtain as that's all I have at that window and I'm investigating other possibilities.

Ellie.

Susie Len
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Susie Len » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:40 am

Hi Ellie

Thank you for your advice.

He does not seem frightened of the window. He is in a corner and the windowsill starts where the side if the cage ends.
We have pigeons who regularly visit our window bird feeder and he's not scared of them.

Thanks Susie x

Susie Len
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Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:35 am

Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Susie Len » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:24 am

Please help me. He sits as close as he can to the window calling to the birds outside. He doesn't make a sound when I'm in the room. He's so nervous and hates me.

Susie x

MissK
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by MissK » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:33 am

Talk to him. Offer him treats. Put your computer next to the cage and read all the taming threads on this forum.

-MissK
-MissK

Hakaishin
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Hakaishin » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:24 am

Strictly on the note of the cage's location - and at risk of sounding rude... I would MAKE room to reposition the cage.

If that meant throwing a table out to the curb, I would. My bird's safety/security/happiness is more important.

This can be accomplished a number of ways. The first (and most obvious) is getting rid of something that takes up room to position the cage there with some re-arranging. Another is to CREATE that space - perhaps build rafter shelves extending from either the walls or ceiling to hold the cage in a more ideal location (may require the repositioning/disposal of wall ornaments - but again, secondary to the bird's well-being). Another - what I ended up doing when I was in your exact same situation - is move. Regardless of location, larger housing for relatively equal pricing does indeed exist - provided you look for it. It may be at a less-optimal location, but that is also where you must ask...

"Which is more important? This living creature's safety and happiness, or my location?"

When I was forced to ask that question, I immediately answered with the bird's well being and made preparations to relocate.

I've seen entirely too many cases (just within the last year I've had a bird in my family) where cages and windows together would end with cats finding ways inside and killing them, external damage (a child throwing a ball, for example) severely wounding the bird, bird escapes... a million other reasons to remedy the situation.

/tangent

Forgive me for speaking out of place. It is your home and your bird. Do as you will. I simply refuse to believe the notion of, "there is nowhere to put it" when the safety and happiness of the bird are what are at stake.

Now, to answer your concern more directly...

Have you considered a go-carrier?

I'm a new member here so can't post a link... however if you look up "Pak O Bird" on google, you will see what I refer to.

Essentially a baby carrier, but modified for a bird. It is enclosed so they won't fly off, but you can take them with you without the bulkiness or weight of a cage, and the bird is much closer to you. This can be an interesting tool to get the bird used to going out with you, and because the bird is always directly against your body, while in a safe and enclosed space, they are less intimidated.

I did this for my Conure and we enjoyed going all sorts of places together. We'd go to pet stores to buy toys for her, go for walks in the park, etc. All safely and securely.

As the bird gets more used to your attention - using the methods other members have already mentioned in the posts before mine - you could begin considering (with sufficiently clipped wings so the bird doesn't get startled and fly off) taking the bird with you without the carrier.

Susie Len
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Susie Len » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:22 am

Not meaning to be rude myself, but please, please, please don't for one second think that i don't care for Indie's safety because that's all I think about.

We've been trying to move to a much larger house for over 2 years without success. We cannot simply walk away from the mortgage/lease etc... i wish it was that easy!

I have already thrown out a table to accommodate the cage, now i am considering swapping the cage with a large cabinet to be away from the window. The only problem we have is the cabinet is fixed to the wall.

As for the carry case, I'd love to just have him sit on my hand without panicking.

I sit next to the cage every morning, i talk to him all the time, I give him treats at every opportunity.
I even lured him onto my hand a couple of times but now he refuses to do that. He just takes the treats, drops them and runs away.

I'm completely at a loss.

- Susie

If i get close to him he flaps, stumbles and runs away...

I'm at a loss of what to do.

Hakaishin
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Hakaishin » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:54 am

Given the cage location, it may be difficult for the bird to feel safe. Idealy with it in a corner, he has 2 less angles of approach he has to worry about. This goes a long way in calming him.

In that environment, he's able to focus more on his family than worry about his survival. He would be less likely to snatch treats and run (thinking a predator from another angle is stalking him), and would begin to feel safer turning his back to the walls - and hence his attention to you.

Aside from that, covering the window and opening the cage to let him explore may be another option. Close the room so he can't go where he's not supposed to, let him go and just be in the room with him - letting him explore his environment. If he doesn't go to you, it shouldn't be an issue - just let him get used to it. Provide varied treats for being so brave, and always use a soothing tone - even when his demeanor frustrates you.

Animals can sense your disappointment. He knows you're not happy, but doesn't understand why. As he's still new to your home, his first instinct isn't to comfort you (which comes in time), but instead self-preservation, believing you to be malignant.

I mentioned in another thread, "Don't rush things". Remember that IRN's can live a VERY long time - 30-50 years if very well cared for. 2 months old in that time is such a tiny window, and he may need more time to develop trust.

Once that trust is built, it creates the bond you're looking for.

But please stop beating yourself up over it... take what measures you can to help the bird feel more secure (moving the cage is a big step). Give him space - give him time - and give him love. He is a flock creature - he will yearn for his flock in time. Making sure he knows he's in a safe place, where he can trust you is what you must work on first.

Susie Len
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Susie Len » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:05 am

Thank you for your kind words.

I will try that tomorrow maybe, as I'm at home - I'll let him explore and maybe once he sees there's no threat he'll feel safer.

His cage is in a corner against two walls, but I'm just hoping to move him across the room. Still facing the window (you can't escape it) but much further away.

- Susie

Hakaishin
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Hakaishin » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:35 am

Another option may be to get a mirror for him. Mirrors initially are usually counter-productive if your goal is to get him to talk (he would feel less-inclined to mimic you as opposed to that handsome bird looking back at him), but that shouldn't even be a primary concern - and can be removed later when he is more comfortable.

It serves the dual purpose of giving him the feeling he is not alone in his cage (flock birds rely heavily on safety-in-numbers), as well as a very interesting toy to play with. Birds and mirrors... Probably the most vain creature I've ever seen - gotta keep calling themselves, "Pretty Bird" while staring at themselves in a mirror... the Divas of the animal kingdom... LOL

But a few days of a mirror in his cage, at eye-level with his perch (so he can easily access it where he feels safest) may help to calm him as well - and gradually as he becomes more calm, you can begin replacing that handsome mirror bird with your own attention.

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Skyes_crew
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by Skyes_crew » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:01 am

Susie...you are doing a great thing by asking questions when you have concerns or worries. It shows that you care what happens to indie. My belief is that you just need to take a calming breath and step back from the situation. Indie is still very new to you as you are to him. I truly believe he just needs time to calm down and adjust. Moving him around at this point could interrupt that. Being in front of a window isn't so bad. Sometimes you can't escape it. One entire wall of my living room is made up of windows and a sliding glass door. I'm not going to move because of it. The trick is to find an arrangement that allows you both to live in harmony. I believe Ellie had a good start in hanging a sheer curtain over her window. It allows light to pass through without actual line of sight out of the window. That being said...my birds love being by the window. The wall of glass faces a wooded area and they happily chatter to the wildlife all day. My conure...the sentry bird that she is...loves to alert us to wildlife :) there are also window perches you can install.

If your bird is not used to you and afraid of your hand, I would not at this point let him out of the cage. You may have a rough time getting him back in and scare him further. Like MissK and Ellie have said...sit next to his cage and go about your daily activities. Talk on the phone, surf the Internet, eat your meals. Take a nap in front of him. Let him get accustomed to the movement and sounds around him. Then slowly start getting him accustomed to other things like hands. But one step at a time. Slow and steady wins the race. What you do now could affect your future with indie. IRN's are extremely smart birds, which can also make them extremely frustrating. They can push every button to get to you. Be strong and patient. Never rush anything. I know you have it in you :D
I am owned by my birds...and I wouldn't have it any other way :D

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ellieelectrons
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Re: 2 month old parent raised, avery Ringneck taming issues

Post by ellieelectrons » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:54 pm

Hi All

Susie, you are doing well. Your patience will win out in the end. :) You've been given lots of good advice.

I have been a die-hard "my bird loves staring out the window" person until 4-days ago. I'll describe what made me change my mind. To be honest, I'm still not 100% certain about it... but I'll lay all my cards on the table so that you can make up your own mind. At the workshop I went to, the presenter talked about how she did a behavior consultation with some people whose parrot had some behavior problems (can't remember what they were). She suggested a number of measures for them to take, one was get a bigger cage and move the cage away from the window, against a wall. The owner commented, "she loves looking out the window", to which the presenter replied, "what makes you think she likes looking out the window". The owner said something to the effect of, "she stands tall and is looks out the window a lot". It was then that the presenter explained that this type of body language isn't the body language of a relaxed bird at all. In this case, moving the cage made a big difference to the bird's behavior. So... this got me thinking about my guys - and I had thought that my female liked looking out the window... but the more I thought about it, I never saw her sitting there with relaxed body language, it was more "on-alert" body language... and on occasion (mainly if there was a workman in the yard, this would happen a couple of times a year), she did show a very strong fear-response (flying into the cage bars).

Any way, something for you to think about, and make up your own mind. The person who spoke at the workshop was Pamela Clark http://www.pamelaclarkonline.com/.

Ellie.

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