To trim, or not to trim...

[allira]

I want to start hand-taming Zeus, and he's started off okay. Minimal biting and seems to be responding to my voice.
He flys around a fair bit however, and I'm scared one day he'll hurt himself flying into a wall or something.
I initially wanted to trim his wings but now I'm unsure of whether to do this or not.

1. Basically I'm asking, do you agree with trimming IRN's wings?
2. Why/why not?
3. If you don't trim your birds wings, how do you manage to restrict their want to fly?
4. Are there any methods of physical training that I can do, to teach Zeus to not fly?
5. If you do trim your IRN's wings, do you do both wings, the first 9 flight feathers? Any information will be appreciate.

Thanks in advance,
- Allira.

[ellieelectrons]

Hi Allira

I don't currently trim my bird's wings but I did for the first couple of years of bringing them to live with us. It made taming easier. When we first brought them home, in spite of being handraised, they would fly up to the ceiling fans and sit there and I couldn't get them down (we have high ceilings). I was afraid they would nibble the cables. Now, they don't show any interest in flying up there - I think it was a fear thing.

I love having them flighted but I do understand that clipping does make them easier to work with.

If you do choose to trim your bird's feathers, I would recommend trimming both. That way, they should be able to fly downwards and rescue themselves if they fall. I know someone who used to own a petstore and he said that he had lots of birds come in with injuries because only one wing was trimmed. If you feel confident enough to trim them yourself, you could try trimming the wings one feather at a time until you are happy with the amount of flight the bird has. That's how my friend does it with his IRNs. I, however, don't do it myself, so I have take them to someone I trust to do it.

Now, I try to restrict their flight by giving them perching places around the house and encouraging them to use those. I still sometimes have troubles with them landing on picture frames. I also do a lot of trick training with my bird which they love to do - for the treats and because it is mentally stimulating. When in their cage, my birds get more than 90% of their food through foraging - this keeps them mentally stimulated and it also means that getting treats from me is suddenly the "easy" way to get food - so they love our interactions.

I'm sure others will add to the debate. I have probably become an advocate for not clipping, but to be honest, I'm not sure how I would have gone in those early days without clipping.

Ellie.

[InTheAir]

Hi Allira,
We have a 6 month old that we got at 12 weeks old and have not clipped him. The breeder recommended we let him fly for a week our 2 after we got him as he was the runt and had only just learnt to fly, and hadn't muscled up yet. about day 2 after he moved in we taught him to come when called and he figured it out in about 10 minutes. He was pretty comfortable with us, that's why we got him. To teach him we took him in our boring (for birdies) bedroom and one person would call him from a metre or so away and the other person, whose hand he was perched on would bounce their hand until he flew to the caller (who had birdy treats on hand). He is pretty good now, knows what you mean, but sometimes he'll sit on the curtain rail looking at you quizzically... If you're in a hurry to catch him when he's not in the mood pointedly walking into the pantry and getting out a better treat like some nutrigrain usually does the trick.

We almost clipped him a few days after we got him as he flew into a window that should have been covered, but we didn't clip him immediately and since then he's avoided windows.
Birds are clever, and not flying into walls seems to be fairly obvious, windows on the other hand don't make sense, so they need to be covered. Though we don't actually worry about covering them now that Nele has his flight paths established, I don't have enough experience with birds to know if this works for other birds...
Nele was a bit unco and he's fallen off the curtain rails when attempting to land, but that's part of learning how to use his flight gear. After a kiss and a cuddle he'd be ready for his next attempt.

As far as restricting their flight, we have followed Ellies example and made a birdy playstand out of yummy chewable wood, and he has been spending less time on the curtain rails since.
Realistically a bird flies at will, it may be possible to train them not to, but we like him to have some freedom.

Unclipped birds are probably more of a pain, but when you suddenly have a free bird swoop down to land on your shoulder because it's chosen that you are the most interesting thing in the room, you can't really have a bigger compliment.
If you can make your house bird safe, and you have the patience for your bird to decide the taming pace, we have found it very rewarding. It allows our bird be on equal terms with us and he still has some kind of independence.



Claire

[sanjays mummi]

We Don't clip and Won't clip, we believe it is cruel.

[Melika]

If you do clip, always clip both and start with just five feathers or so and work from there to determine how severe a clipping your bird will need.

You will likely not be able to teach Zeus not to fly. Large parrots are more likely to freeze when something startles them but the smaller ones all seem to take flight.

I have had Hane both clipped and flighted. He used to get quite arrogant when flighted and begin biting but he has been fine the last two years. He is always supervised while out of his cage either way. He will likely be clipped soon as my husband is requesting it. Hopefully they will bond some more by the time Hane moults again.

I do firmly believe that clipping or not is reliant on your circumstances. When Hane was younger and I lived with my parents, doors were opening and closing all day so having a flighted bird was not an option. He could have escaped or been crushed in a closing door. Now with just my husband and me, it is easier to keep track of going in and out.


Here's a few things that keep me from being a 'no clipping ever' person:

• Clipping is temporary. The feathers will regrow and you can let your bird be flighted from that point on if you so choose and if it is safe.

• Safety is the number one concern. How often in papers and even in this very forum have we seen birds escape? How often have I heard of birds crushed in doors because they were sitting on top of the door and were not noticed (I personally know a friend this happened to)? If your bird will not be safe flighted, then it is better to clip.

• Saying it is unnatural to clip is forgetting that we keep our birds caged or indoors for a reason too.

[clawnz]

It's always good to read that a large number of Parronts here do not have clipped birds.
I feel there needs to be a very good reason to clip flight feathers! And I do not think training is one of them.
The first thing that comes to mind is exercise and this is one of the most important things for the longevity and health of any bird in a captive environment.

I will touch on windows and mirrors. First if you cannot handle it as has been said cover all of these and even for one you can handle you could cover for those first few months. With a new bird you can handle you take it around and tap it's beak or tap your finger on the glass, this way it gets to understand they are solid. I do know this does work, maybe not for all of them.
I have a all glass conservatory my birds fly around in and no problems.

Someone has mentioned the joy of having a bird fly to you because it wanted to and seeing birds do their own thing in your home is also a great thing to watch.

As for training read up on Positive Reinforcement Training.