Hi,
I'm hoping I can get help here,
I'm a member of another forum but as this is dedicated to IRN I'm hoping help will be found.
I have Bob,I got him in September.
He's a rescue and I was told he is 5 years old but he has an orange coloured ring with a number on letters UK and PS and also the number 96, the ring colour in 1996 and 2006 was orange so I wonder if he's older than thought?
He's diet consists of seeds, fruit, veg, pasta, rice and bird mash. with the odd treat thrown in.
Also he's got very terratorial, when I first got him he wouldn't take food from my hand, now he takes food and steps up on a perch.
He immediatly runs along the perch and bites me, or currently the towel, until I manage to get him off onto his play gym.
He is regurgitating food so I'm assuming breeding condition, so I have purchased an avian sun light bulb on the advice of an avian vet to supress his hormones as IRN breed here in December, but haven't set it up yet.
He's now so cage aggresive that he flew down to the floor and ran across the room to bite me when I was washing his grate from his cage.
I make a fist so he can't get a grip and gently push towards him saying bad Bob! He keeps on biting and biting!
Is this usual for IRN? Some people on another forum told me IRN are untameable but I have read different.
Can anyone help? any ideas would be appreciated as he's well loved and will always have a home here,
wether he's tame or not, obviously we'd all be happier if he was tamed.
Thanks for reading
Taming troubles.
Moderator: Mods
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ellieelectrons
- Posts: 2708
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
- Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Re: Taming troubles.
Hi Kate
I've been thinking about your problems and I have a few ideas which may or may not help. I fear this is going to be a long post. Sorry!
With any chronic behaviour problem, looking at the cause and addressing the cause is probably the best way to solve the problem. From what you are saying, given his background, your bird feels safest when he is in his cage so he probably doesn't like to leave it and he doesn't like anyone interfering with it. It is normal for birds to be territorial over their home. I have two handraised IRNs which I've had from 6 & 9 weeks of age and occasionally they charge at me when I'm cleaning their cage or replacing their food. When they get particularly bad, I put them on a perch on our enclosed verandah - they love being there as it's out in the fresh air. I can still see them but when they're out there they forget about their cage and show know interest in stopping me. So I guess my first question is can you clean and do work on his cage when he can't see (and possibly hear) what you're doing?
Regarding the biting the hand holding the perch... I tried to relate this to my own experience and we unwittingly conditioned our Janey to bite the hand that was holding the perch. I don't know if you've done something similar to us but here's what we did. We would firstly try to get her to step up to put her away back in her cage. If she didn't want to, we would try getting her to step up on a dowel perch. If she didn't want to do that, we'd chase her around with the dowel until we'd almost force her to step up. Over time, this produced a fear/aggression response in her... and she was smart enough to work out that biting the perch did nothing, but running up the end to bite the hand holding it worked better. So maybe you haven't been chasing your bird around with the perch like we did... but your bird probably doesn't want to leave its cage so it is doing what it can to tell you it doesn't want to leave... so that's my theory which may or may not be correct... There are several things I can think do to try to fix this:
- set up your area so that your bird can get to its gym itself (for now)... so place it right beside the cage
- make the gym area really appealing by withdrawing your bird's fav foods from its normal diet and putting it in its gym area - make sure he can see that you've put his treats there
- work on removing the fear/aggression response to the stick. With Janey we did that by not using the stick with her for a long time and going back to positive reinforcement for stepping up. Given your bird isn't as tame as ours, is there a chance you could find a completely different stick and work on creating positive associations with it? Your aim is to make it so that your bird wants to get on the stick itself rather than you forcing it to do so. You can do that by luring it with food. You start by rewarding it for even just taking a step toward the stick and gradually get it to come closer... it could take several training sessions. To train this way you have to allow your bird to have the right to refuse to step onto the stick but reward him heaps when he does do it.
Making you bird forage for at least 90% of its food will also give it something to do whilst in its cage (prevents boredom) and makes getting food from you the easy way to get food so it makes it more likely to take treats from you. You need to introduce foraging techniques gradually as your bird has to learn how to forage (you don't want your bird to starve). There are two or three really good threads on this forum that can help (search for foraging). That has made a huge difference to my two birds.
If your bird is hurting you a lot, I would consider wing clipping - although I understand if you don't want to do this but it's worth considering. Many report completely changed behaviours in their bird when they get their wings clipped. You can always let them grow back next season. I do clip my birds wings but I am hoping to let them grow out this season.
Another nice taming technique is to leave the cage door open and sit and eat in front of your bird. They will often get so curious that they will want to come down and see what your eating. If your bird does that, give him some (just make sure it's birdy safe)... (That idea came from Julie, one of the moderators on the forum).
If your bird is scared of your hand or you are scared of bites when offering treats, you can give your bird a treat on a plastic spoon or something like that. I sometimes use a set of plastic aeroplane spoons for babies - got them cheap at the supermarket one day. Of course, he will probably initially be scared of the spoon so make sure you introduce it with his fav foods on it first and let his curiousity get the better of him and come to you rather than shoving it in his face... gradually the barrier will come down.
I hope something in there helps.
Good luck and best wishes. I'm glad Bob has found you!
Ellie.
I've been thinking about your problems and I have a few ideas which may or may not help. I fear this is going to be a long post. Sorry!
With any chronic behaviour problem, looking at the cause and addressing the cause is probably the best way to solve the problem. From what you are saying, given his background, your bird feels safest when he is in his cage so he probably doesn't like to leave it and he doesn't like anyone interfering with it. It is normal for birds to be territorial over their home. I have two handraised IRNs which I've had from 6 & 9 weeks of age and occasionally they charge at me when I'm cleaning their cage or replacing their food. When they get particularly bad, I put them on a perch on our enclosed verandah - they love being there as it's out in the fresh air. I can still see them but when they're out there they forget about their cage and show know interest in stopping me. So I guess my first question is can you clean and do work on his cage when he can't see (and possibly hear) what you're doing?
Regarding the biting the hand holding the perch... I tried to relate this to my own experience and we unwittingly conditioned our Janey to bite the hand that was holding the perch. I don't know if you've done something similar to us but here's what we did. We would firstly try to get her to step up to put her away back in her cage. If she didn't want to, we would try getting her to step up on a dowel perch. If she didn't want to do that, we'd chase her around with the dowel until we'd almost force her to step up. Over time, this produced a fear/aggression response in her... and she was smart enough to work out that biting the perch did nothing, but running up the end to bite the hand holding it worked better. So maybe you haven't been chasing your bird around with the perch like we did... but your bird probably doesn't want to leave its cage so it is doing what it can to tell you it doesn't want to leave... so that's my theory which may or may not be correct... There are several things I can think do to try to fix this:
- set up your area so that your bird can get to its gym itself (for now)... so place it right beside the cage
- make the gym area really appealing by withdrawing your bird's fav foods from its normal diet and putting it in its gym area - make sure he can see that you've put his treats there
- work on removing the fear/aggression response to the stick. With Janey we did that by not using the stick with her for a long time and going back to positive reinforcement for stepping up. Given your bird isn't as tame as ours, is there a chance you could find a completely different stick and work on creating positive associations with it? Your aim is to make it so that your bird wants to get on the stick itself rather than you forcing it to do so. You can do that by luring it with food. You start by rewarding it for even just taking a step toward the stick and gradually get it to come closer... it could take several training sessions. To train this way you have to allow your bird to have the right to refuse to step onto the stick but reward him heaps when he does do it.
Making you bird forage for at least 90% of its food will also give it something to do whilst in its cage (prevents boredom) and makes getting food from you the easy way to get food so it makes it more likely to take treats from you. You need to introduce foraging techniques gradually as your bird has to learn how to forage (you don't want your bird to starve). There are two or three really good threads on this forum that can help (search for foraging). That has made a huge difference to my two birds.
If your bird is hurting you a lot, I would consider wing clipping - although I understand if you don't want to do this but it's worth considering. Many report completely changed behaviours in their bird when they get their wings clipped. You can always let them grow back next season. I do clip my birds wings but I am hoping to let them grow out this season.
Another nice taming technique is to leave the cage door open and sit and eat in front of your bird. They will often get so curious that they will want to come down and see what your eating. If your bird does that, give him some (just make sure it's birdy safe)... (That idea came from Julie, one of the moderators on the forum).
If your bird is scared of your hand or you are scared of bites when offering treats, you can give your bird a treat on a plastic spoon or something like that. I sometimes use a set of plastic aeroplane spoons for babies - got them cheap at the supermarket one day. Of course, he will probably initially be scared of the spoon so make sure you introduce it with his fav foods on it first and let his curiousity get the better of him and come to you rather than shoving it in his face... gradually the barrier will come down.
I hope something in there helps.
Good luck and best wishes. I'm glad Bob has found you!
Ellie.
Re: Taming troubles.
Thanks for your help.
It certainly givese lots of ideas.
I found another thread on here with a link to a training site.
Gonna try target training.
It certainly givese lots of ideas.
I found another thread on here with a link to a training site.
Gonna try target training.
Re: Taming troubles.
I just opened the door tonite but Bob decided not to emerge.
Thats ok, at least he's happy.
Thats ok, at least he's happy.
-
ellieelectrons
- Posts: 2708
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
- Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Re: Taming troubles.
You may find more success during the day. My guys sleep from sundown to sun up. Have you tried eating in front of he cage. Oh, and it probably works best if you're absorbed in something else eg. Reading a book - ten your bird doesn't feel under scrutiny.
Good luck. It takes time but things can change.
Ellie.
Good luck. It takes time but things can change.
Ellie.
Re: Taming troubles.
hi i have a blue irn i had the dna come back female but it acts like a male and where the males get the black on it she looks like someone painted a dirt line there and her bottem beak is going dark
Re: Taming troubles.
The line in immature plumage birds do not mean they are cocks. Often hens have this neckline too. Hens will display to demonstrate affection or dominance.