introductions with the old maid

Moderator: Mods

Post Reply
jimmyjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:54 am
Location: australia

introductions with the old maid

Post by jimmyjack »

so, its been over 2 months, and salvador is growing quickly. ive done everything as recommended when it comes to introducing him with iggy. eg - gradually moving the cages close together from seperate rooms, introductions in neutral space, giving her all the attention. but iggy just wont accept salvador.

the barrier has broken down quite alot, and she is now comfortable with him at about 1/2m distance, sometimes less. but she is still always lunging at him and he has now lost the ends of both tail feathers due to close encounters.

it makes things difficult because i dont want to get him clipped until she accepts him, so that he can get away from her easily. but he is such a good flyer now, and is becoming rather cheeky iwth the safety that he can do a quick dive away. its also difficult because i dont want to constanly have to keep them seperated and choose which one gets the attention/make seperate time for both of them.

any suggestions or help with this? anyone else conquered a troubling introductory period? its my first time at this, so i dont know if its normal or not. but yeah, some advice would be great
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by ellieelectrons »

Hi jimmyjack

I'm sorry to say I don't have any advice other than I've been told that some birds will never accept another one. I knew it was a risk I took when I brought home Charlie (our second bird).

How old are they both? Is one sexually mature and the other not? I'm imagining that might make a difference?

Are you getting them both out at playtime? Is that when the lunging is occurring?

Have you tried butting their cages up against each other or is the lunging too serious for that?

Sorry, just lots of questions. I wish I could help.

Ellie.
Last edited by ellieelectrons on Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
dog_glenn123
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:05 pm
Location: West Sydney Australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by dog_glenn123 »

Hey Jimmy Jack the answers to Ellie Q's would help.

I have a hen that went through 2 breeders before past to me she had killed 3 males before i got her.

I put her with one of my males and again she tried to kill it.

I then put her with a 10 month old male (not mature) she took to him straight away (it was in breeding season) but other breeders had tried that.

It is now the first out of season they have had together she tollerates him, they are starting to snuggle again.

I suppose my point is the muturatie of the hen compared to the cock?

Ta Glenn

I know it doesnt really help if they are hand reared pets and not breeders.
Just another view.
jimmyjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:54 am
Location: australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by jimmyjack »

yes iggy, the hen, is mature - yet i have no idea how old she is. she was a rescue bird and we have no details of her past. salvador on the other hand is about 3 months old.

once salvador moved into a cage, we at first kept the cages in seperate rooms for 3 weeksish, then opposite ends of the same room, gradually bringing them together. they were up against each other, but that was how he lost the first of the tail feathers. since then theyve been about 10 cm apart. her attacks are at any time. sometime at playtime, sometimes when theyre out of the cage, sometimes she'll ark up at him while hes in the cage, but at least now she cant get to him.

salvador doesnt seem too phased by the situation - being young, full of energy and eternally curious, he will often just sit and watch calmly while she puffs up and pins and calls at him, and if she does go to strike he'll fly off until just out of range.

iggy doesnt get as much attention as salvador, only because shes intolerant of it. she can generally only stand a few minutes, whereas he will play for hours (quite painful when im trying to work - in the sweetest way ofcoarse). im sorry to say that he is getting more attention, but theres only so much i can dote on her before she becomes irate and panicky. i do individual training aswell. i have to do it this way, as salvador either becomes distracted by the other bird when hes training, or will come down to partake if it her training.
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by ellieelectrons »

I'm just adding a post here so that it will come up in my "new post" list when I come home tonight... as I want to respond but don't have time right now.
jimmyjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:54 am
Location: australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by jimmyjack »

thanks ellie!
jimmyjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:54 am
Location: australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by jimmyjack »

actually, i just remembered.

before she came to me she had a partner, a green male. both were housed in same cage and from what i know lived well together without fighting. the male was killed by the past owner. but it does show that she is not incapable of being with another bird maybe? or maybe as with glenn's hen, that was an exception?
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by ellieelectrons »

Just got to say that I don't have much experience with this, I only have (and have only ever had) 2 IRNs.... and I've had Janey just over 2 years and Charlie just over 1 year. We managed to get them cohabitating though.
jimmyjack wrote:yes iggy, the hen, is mature - yet i have no idea how old she is. she was a rescue bird and we have no details of her past. salvador on the other hand is about 3 months old.
Since Salvador is so young I don't think that you can definitely know yet whether Iggy will accept or reject Salvador. Now I know birds are nothing like dogs... but sometimes with dogs, the older ones get annoyed with the younger, more exuberant ones. I could imagine the age difference being a problem at least until Iggy reaches sexual maturity.
jimmyjack wrote:but that was how he lost the first of the tail feathers. since then theyve been about 10 cm apart.
Does she attack and keep attacking or just a lunge and then stops? Although I guess you probably pull them apart at that point so you may not know?

Is Salvador interested in her? You said that Iggy doesn't faze her... but is he curious about her? When we brought Charlie home, we couldn't stop him getting on Janey's cage when he was out and about. Janey didn't appreciate him flying onto her cage all the time (it freaked her out).... but Charlie always wanted to be with another bird.

Also, are you sure Salvador is a male? At 3 months it could be hard to know and if Salvador turns out to be a female, it is very unlikely that they will ever get along.
jimmyjack wrote:im sorry to say that he is getting more attention, but theres only so much i can dote on her before she becomes irate and panicky. i do individual training aswell. i have to do it this way, as salvador either becomes distracted by the other bird when hes training, or will come down to partake if it her training.
The attention thing is probably ok, you want Salvador to seek attention from Iggy anyway at least until they're bonded.

I have found training really difficult with two birds too. It's much harder to teach them things. Charlie frets when he is taken away from Janey or when she is taken away from him (Janey on the other hand, seems to enjoy it!).

Also, it sounds like Iggy has had a hard life so who knows what her "issues" are. There is a chance that your two birds will never bond.... but I think @ 3 months of age, you can't know that yet.

Keep in mind that birds will naturally squabble.... and at the beginning they will be testing each other's boundaries and establishing who is the boss.... Obviously you want to make sure there is no blood shed and that one of your birds isn't getting too stressed.

I'm sorry there's not much help here.... but I'm not sure that there is an answer yet.... just wait and see.

Ellie.
jimmyjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:54 am
Location: australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by jimmyjack »

thats great ellie, your knowledge is more than mine :D

ive not yet had a DNA test, yet after having both salvador and his sister queenie (we had her for a few weeks for our friend) im positive hes a male. though i still want the test done, queenies nature was very similar to iggy, her gestures, calls, behaviour, etc. also her shape is much more gradual and curved across the head as with iggy. her colours are also duller than salvador. he on the other hand, is fairly rigid and squared across the head. his behaviour is very different, and when catching himself in our mirror, he does the male heart wing and head arch. for those reasons ive come to think of him as a he.
Does she attack and keep attacking or just a lunge and then stops? Although I guess you probably pull them apart at that point so you may not know?

Is Salvador interested in her?
no normally she just makes one lunge, and then he flys off. sometimes when shes on the big branch, he'll just keep flying from one side to the other, as she paces back and forth after him (shes clipped, hes not). and this will go on for quite a while. but normally he'll just flying off. the exception of when she grabbed his tail i wasnt home. i can only assume that he was climbing the cage, and his tail feathers stuck through. carpe diem for her. but yes, hes interested and curious in her, and often trys to approach. he seems to have backed off a bit now, i think hes realised how she'll react.

the boundary is breaking down, she used to get aggitated when in the same room, now shes much more accepting. the other day they both napped on a branch about half a metre away from each other.

thanks for the advice. i guess i'll just keep going the way we're going, and hopefully she'll come good :)
ellieelectrons
Posts: 2708
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:17 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by ellieelectrons »

I think that's a good idea.

If you're seeing progress in the right direction, I think it will work out in the end just could take some time.... you may have to wait until he matures..... which is a bit of a long wait. Just hope you've judged the sex right!

I have heard someone say that young birds will do the sexual posturing of both sexes... but I don't personally know if that is true.

With our birds, Janey does the squatting and clucking and Charlie used to do the heart-shaped wing thing but I haven't seen him do that for a while now.

Ellie.
jimmyjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:54 am
Location: australia

Re: introductions with the old maid

Post by jimmyjack »

FIP

(fly in peace)

today by one of those extremely rare events, just as i open the door to pick some herbs for my dinner, salvador flew to the play perch iggy was sitting on. he land on a rope swing below her and after a second or two of tiffing, he dived through my legs and straight out the door. it was right at dusk so im hoping he took roost in a nearby tree, heading out at 5am with fingers crossed. im heartbroken. but what can i do.
Post Reply