NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

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yoshi
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:10 pm

NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

Ok. So my husband and I recently bought a baby IRN and he is not weaned (obviously), I'm an experienced hand feeder when it comes to IRN. He is nearly weaned, but food is not the problem.

We recently transitioned him to his cage. At first we put his little box in on it's side inside the cage and he loved being able to hide inside it... He loves to hide. Well, yesterday we found that he had broken a tail feather.. A blood feather... We ended up pulling the rest of it out, gently and quickly and we used flour to clot the blood and we applied pressure. And he was great. Today, we got home from work and AGAIN, it happened! 2 nights in a row! Believe me, I was more than upset. I cried for a while. We pulled this one out too and it bled more than the last one after we pulled it but the blood quickly clotted with the pressure and flour.

We found the broken feather inside his box so we took the box out of the cage. Half the bottom of the wire cage is covered in paper towel to make it easier on his feet until they're strong enough. He likes to sit in the bottom still and he doesn't show interest in his perches. He also recently learned to fly and it's all he wants to do... I believe he is starting to go through the "bluffing" stage (or it could be a result of all the stress) but he keeps nipping at us.

HERE IS THE PROBLEM.

Everytime we put him in his cage he like, fights to find a way out. He flies into the plastic insert door that is there and he keeps pushing his beak in between the bars as to try and get out.. But when we get him out he flies away from us and perches up high. Sometimes he'll perch on our finger and preen but most of the time he tries to fly. Is this normal behavior? None of my other IRN have acted this way and I am so scared. I don't want to be doing something wrong and not realize it. He calms down in his cage if we cover it. Or cover part of it atleast. I try not to cover the whole cage, as I know it isn't good for them. But I don't want to leave it uncovered and allow him to potentially hurt himself...

I know that most of you will tell me I should have gotten him weaned, but we didn't. So please don't address that. If anyone could be of ANY help or encouragement that would be great.

For the record his diet consists of organic grapes, mango, carrots, soft pellets, seed, millet, lafebers pellets and nutri-berries. He's weaning nicely.

Thanks so much. His name is Yoshi, btw... Hence my username... :)
smallworld
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by smallworld »

Why do you pull the feathers off, when they break? Because a small amount of blood loss to us can actually be a great deal to them. For example about 20 to 25 drops of blood loss on an IRN can be lethal. You can just snip off the bent feather and leave it. Over the next molt, it should regenerate.

About the behavior thing, someone else had that same problem on this forum. Where he tries to squeeze through the cage. My guess would be he just doesnt like being in the cage. Perching up high gives them a good view of the surroundings so he feels comfortable. I think he just wants to try flying around a little bit, which is not bad. Shows he's active and healthy. How was his living environment before you got him? Were they kept in cages? Is there anything near your cage that could be making him terrified of it? Perhaps some toys, that he isnt used to in the cage?
yoshi
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Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:10 pm

Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

smallworld wrote:Why do you pull the feathers off, when they break? Because a small amount of blood loss to us can actually be a great deal to them. For example about 20 to 25 drops of blood loss on an IRN can be lethal. You can just snip off the bent feather and leave it. Over the next molt, it should regenerate.

About the behavior thing, someone else had that same problem on this forum. Where he tries to squeeze through the cage. My guess would be he just doesnt like being in the cage. Perching up high gives them a good view of the surroundings so he feels comfortable. I think he just wants to try flying around a little bit, which is not bad. Shows he's active and healthy. How was his living environment before you got him? Were they kept in cages? Is there anything near your cage that could be making him terrified of it? Perhaps some toys, that he isnt used to in the cage?

We were told that we needed to pull out the rest of the quill of the feather or else he would CONTINUE bleeding from the blood feather.

When we got him all the babies were kept in small little plastic "brooder" type boxes with a small towel covering the top. He seems to calms down a little whilst being covered. There isn't anything near his cage that could scare him and he doesn't act scared of any of his toys. It just seems he wants out.

Would you suggest that I just let him fly around? Because I feel as though if I keep just letting him go he will become untame. Right now we just woke up and he heard us so now he's trying to get out of his cage. He's showing us he wants out. I don't know if I should condone the behavior so that he learns that whenever he acts like this we get him out or just wait until he stops, IF he stops...
smallworld
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by smallworld »

You dont really have to pull out the rest of the blood feather, you could also apply flour(quickstop or whatever u use to arrest bleeding) to the broken tip, where the blood is coming out from, that should stop the bleeding. Its just, pulling out his feathers would put him in alot of pain.

I wouldnt suggest you let him fly around the whole day. NO, not yet at least. But maybe a little more out time, so he doesnt have to spend so much time in his 'scary cage'. I guess in his case, it was a big transition going from a small box, to his own cage and maybe he just feels kinda exposed. Which is why he always tries to come out and perch high up, in a safe spot.

Maybe you could offer him a small brooding box, tent or something that would fit inside his cage and he could feel safe in. Sometimes its not such a good idea, because he might spend his whole time inside there but I think it might help in his case and allow him to get used to is surroundings at his pace.
yoshi
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

smallworld wrote:You dont really have to pull out the rest of the blood feather, you could also apply flour(quickstop or whatever u use to arrest bleeding) to the broken tip, where the blood is coming out from, that should stop the bleeding. Its just, pulling out his feathers would put him in alot of pain.

I wouldnt suggest you let him fly around the whole day. NO, not yet at least. But maybe a little more out time, so he doesnt have to spend so much time in his 'scary cage'. I guess in his case, it was a big transition going from a small box, to his own cage and maybe he just feels kinda exposed. Which is why he always tries to come out and perch high up, in a safe spot.

Maybe you could offer him a small brooding box, tent or something that would fit inside his cage and he could feel safe in. Sometimes its not such a good idea, because he might spend his whole time inside there but I think it might help in his case and allow him to get used to is surroundings at his pace.

We had pulled the rest of the feather because that's what the emergency line at the vet told us to do... :/

And right now, I'm getting ready for work and he's up on top of the cabinet where he likes to perch. He's been there for a while and I'm not putting him back until I leave. But then he'll start freaking out and I'm afraid that, that is when he breaks his feathers. I had been taking him to work in his small little box all of the week before last, but now that he's in his cage it's a pain to take it to work... Especially when, NOW i can't get him out at work cause he'll fly. So even taking him would be pointless because he's frantic when I'm around the cage (even though he wants nothing to do with me while he's out of the cage.)

We had a little box inside his cage and he liked that. But we found the broken feather inside of it and I was afraid that the box had something to do with it. It took up a third of the bottom of the cage. I suppose I could make some sort of "tent". Also- I figured that before work I would cover 3 sides of the cage and leave one open. Other days I had been leaving two sides open, I was thinking maybe this just gave him more things to get frightened of.
smallworld
Posts: 296
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:30 pm

Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by smallworld »

Well ok if your vet says its alright and if you can trust his opinion. I've just never practised it because of the pain and stress involved.

I think you should think of giving him back that small box for him to go into when he's in his cage rather than to go through all that stress everytime he comes out. I thought he'd be easier to handle, since you were feeding him.

Do you have to take him work? Wouldnt your husband be home to be with him? In my opinion, thats alot of stress and alot of change to handle.

By the way how big is his cage? Does he have enough room to turn around without getting his tail caught?

Oh no! My keyboard is giving up, I need to charge the batteries....
pinkdevil
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by pinkdevil »

Not sure if you are experiencing what my babies go through, but when mine are fledging and almost weaned, they too do not like being in the cage. They pace up and down, push their beaks between the wire of the cage, flap their wings, and call out to me.
I am guessing it is just a natural thing to them as in the wild, they would normally leave the nest and spend a short time with their parents learning the ropes of becoming independent.

I give my babies time out of the cage, cuddle time and ignore time lol. They also have a couple of foot toys and bird toys that they like to carry around and play with.

I do find after a while they do become stubbon and not want to come back to me so I can place them back in the cage. This is when I bribe them with a favourite food and they only get that food as a reward treat when they fly to me and go back to the cage.
Some birds fav food is capsicum, others it is apple or corn etc. But whatever it is, I ONLY give it to them as a training/reward treat to encourage them to do as asked. They still get other fruit and veg, just not their fav. lol :)

I luckily have not had a blood feather injury with any of my birds, but have read to remove the feather as any knocks can start the damaged feather to bleed again. I am hoping I never need to do it as I would have to call on my partner to be the bad guy as I couldn't do it. :lol:

Anyway, hope your little fella starts behaving and looking after his remaining feathers for you. :)
yoshi
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:10 pm

Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

pinkdevil wrote:Not sure if you are experiencing what my babies go through, but when mine are fledging and almost weaned, they too do not like being in the cage. They pace up and down, push their beaks between the wire of the cage, flap their wings, and call out to me.
I am guessing it is just a natural thing to them as in the wild, they would normally leave the nest and spend a short time with their parents learning the ropes of becoming independent.

I give my babies time out of the cage, cuddle time and ignore time lol. They also have a couple of foot toys and bird toys that they like to carry around and play with.

I do find after a while they do become stubbon and not want to come back to me so I can place them back in the cage. This is when I bribe them with a favourite food and they only get that food as a reward treat when they fly to me and go back to the cage.
Some birds fav food is capsicum, others it is apple or corn etc. But whatever it is, I ONLY give it to them as a training/reward treat to encourage them to do as asked. They still get other fruit and veg, just not their fav. lol :)

I luckily have not had a blood feather injury with any of my birds, but have read to remove the feather as any knocks can start the damaged feather to bleed again. I am hoping I never need to do it as I would have to call on my partner to be the bad guy as I couldn't do it. :lol:

Anyway, hope your little fella starts behaving and looking after his remaining feathers for you. :)

This really helped! Your babies sound JUST like what he's doing. He just starting flying and he is not weaned totally yet... So hopefully if I do what you say and just ... well, keep on keepin' on... He'll get through this painlessly... I really do hope he looks after these feathers! I cried so much over it! I hate to see him hurting, he is just so small!!! :(

But, I'm at work now, so he's home alone. Someone suggested using corn on the cob(cooked) as a food/toy. Like put a decent sized piece in the bottom of his cage and he'll jump on it and then realize it's food too.

But thanks so much. This really helped me... It made me feel like I'm not crazy. I'm glad someone else's babies don't like being in their cages... Do yours typically grow out of this at a certain age?
Thanks again! haha. And what is "capsicum"?
pinkdevil
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by pinkdevil »

Yes my bubs got used to being in a cage for part of the day, with time.
Like I mentioned earlier, to encourage them into the cage, I bribe with food and there is toys and other things to help keep them occupied. I try to make being locked in a cage as pleasant as possible. Foraging toys are good as not only keeps the bird amused for a while but they get a tasty treat at the end when they have worked out the puzzle! :)
I thread fruit and veg on a bird skewer that is hung in the cage so they can play and eat it.
Capsicum is what we call red peppers here.
I have found most IRNs are very motivated by. But be careful if the only time you get them to come to you is when you want to put them back in their cage as they are smart little things and quickly pick up on that to. lol

These are 3 of last seasons bubs when they were just weaned....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQhm_YzjXZ4

hahaha...I love their little head bobs. They used to do that when I was mixing the formula ready to feed, and the same noise.
You would think it would be hard to focus with all that bobbing! lol
yoshi
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:10 pm

Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

pinkdevil wrote:Yes my bubs got used to being in a cage for part of the day, with time.
Like I mentioned earlier, to encourage them into the cage, I bribe with food and there is toys and other things to help keep them occupied. I try to make being locked in a cage as pleasant as possible. Foraging toys are good as not only keeps the bird amused for a while but they get a tasty treat at the end when they have worked out the puzzle! :)
I thread fruit and veg on a bird skewer that is hung in the cage so they can play and eat it.
Capsicum is what we call red peppers here.
I have found most IRNs are very motivated by. But be careful if the only time you get them to come to you is when you want to put them back in their cage as they are smart little things and quickly pick up on that to. lol

These are 3 of last seasons bubs when they were just weaned....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQhm_YzjXZ4

hahaha...I love their little head bobs. They used to do that when I was mixing the formula ready to feed, and the same noise.
You would think it would be hard to focus with all that bobbing! lol
Oh! They are so cute and Yoshi looks so much like them. Except that his tail is shorter... :P

By red peppers do you mean Red bell peppers or chilli peppers? I gave him red bell peppers ONCE, but it was before he understood food other than soft pellets and formula. haha. And if I use it I definitely won't just get him to come to me to go back to the cage! haha, I really want to cuddle with him! Last week all he wanted to do was be cuddled under a towel and now he wants nothing to do with being cuddled!

It's such an experience!
Thanks again for all of your help. I really need it!
yoshi
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

Also- Will he potentially hurt himself being in his cage while frantically trying to get out??
pinkdevil
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by pinkdevil »

I think you guys call them 'bell peppers'. :) Although bird do love chillies to.

Do you have a photo of Yoshi to share?

My babies never hurt themselves trying to get out of the cage, but I guess it depends on both the bird and the cage.

I find it funny how Yoshi does not show interest in the perches in the cage but is quite happy perching on anything when out. Maybe does not like the cage perches??

Wondering if you could set up a video camera and record Yoshis' behaviour when you are out. May help you in finding out how he is breaking his feathers or what he does when no one is home.
yoshi
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

pinkdevil wrote:I think you guys call them 'bell peppers'. :) Although bird do love chillies to.

Do you have a photo of Yoshi to share?

My babies never hurt themselves trying to get out of the cage, but I guess it depends on both the bird and the cage.

I find it funny how Yoshi does not show interest in the perches in the cage but is quite happy perching on anything when out. Maybe does not like the cage perches??

Wondering if you could set up a video camera and record Yoshis' behaviour when you are out. May help you in finding out how he is breaking his feathers or what he does when no one is home.

That's a good idea... Where I work- I can check out cameras.. I may try that. Yes! My avatar is a picture of him and I uploaded one onto this, I think haha...

Today at work I made some pyramid type things out of brightly colored paper and I'm going to hide food in them tonight. Maybe it will get him interested.. I'm also going to go get some little plastic balls with bells in them for his bottom of the cage toys.. I think he just gets bored.. I'm almost afraid that he's biting his feathers off out of boredom/stress/frustration... I have a month off in July so hopefully that will be a good time for him to get through this stage.
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The day we got him.  :)  He's MUCH bigger and more feathered now!
The day we got him. :) He's MUCH bigger and more feathered now!
yoshi
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by yoshi »

I had to share this picture of him tonight!

I followed some advice from both of you.

Tonight, my husband got home before me and he got Yoshi out and let him fly around and gave him a grape. We spent all evening with him. He took a bath for the first time too! We figured out that the only reason he flies is because he wants to be watching what we are doing. He wants to be a part of it! (Should have figured this out sooner!!!) We kept him out ALL night. And then I cleaned his cage and rearranged things and since we were messing with his cage he was on Daniel's shoulder and then he FLEW into his cage! I was STUNNED. He wanted out soon after, but still! Each time we tried to put him back in his cage if he didn't want to go we kept him out. We let him decide (for the most part). He ate rice and corn bread with us at dinner and he loved being apart of it. And he had a small taste of a strawberry for dessert! We figured out that his favorite snack (aside from formula) are grapes! So that is our bribing food now... lol.

Right now he is in his cage. NOT trying to get out. We actually encouraged him to fly from person to person tonight and I think it wore him out... That and the serving of warm baby formula he just got. He is plump and tired. I'm so happy to see him sitting so peacefully on his perch! I know his cage is small, but this is all we could provide right now. We're planning on getting a huge cage with a play area attached... but, it will take us a bit to save up. We're newlyweds and we're still in school.

:) But thank you guys SO MUCH for all of your help. I just relaxed today, prayed about it and let it go! And now he is happy! I am so so so happy now! :D He even let me hold him for a good portion of the evening, but as soon as he was ready to go up high and perch away from us, then we let him. And as you can see, he's fond of his perches now. :) The little triangle thing is a paper pyramid I made at work for him. It's got a grape and a carrot inside.. :) I figure that will be a good surprise for him tomorrow. I also went and bought toy soldiers.. I put one in his pen, after washing it. We don't have a pet store within 50 miles of us right now. So we had to make due.

ONE QUESTION.

Is rubber toxic? I bought this little toy that is rubber.. It's like a child's toy. I haven't put it in his cage yet because I wanted advice first.

Thanks so much!
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pinkdevil
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by pinkdevil »

Awww...he is so so cute. Good to hear things went in a positive direction for you. :)

It depends on what type of rubber the toy is made from if it is toxic to birds or not.
I read, (and used for my birds), people use (human), baby toys for their birds, like wrattles etc. They are colourful, noisy, which some birds just LOVE :lol: :roll: :D and fairly tough to put up with kids throwing them around.
Could work out to be a cheaper alternative to buying bird toys.

Something Yoshi may like is natural branches from bird safe trees. Natural wood varies in size and gives the birds foot exercise instead of being in the same grip hold. Most store bought perches are the same diameter along the perch. Just a thought. :)
There is a thread on here somewhere about good and bad wood for birds.

Oh, and congrats on your newly wedding-ness. :P :D :D
smallworld
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Re: NEED HELP! 2 MONTH OLD IRN!

Post by smallworld »

I've used baby toys all along. I think their fine because children do bite into them and most of them are non toxic. Good to hear that you're doing much better today.
Nice looking lil fellar you got there! :)
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