Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems not??

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Deb*in*Scotland
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Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems not??

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

Hi

Well I eventually (after months of searching) got my IRN "Casper". I was told he was hand reared, tame. will sit on your shoulder, talks etc...and that he was 4 months old. Some of this does not ring true although I realise it is early days (he has been here 3 days).

There has obviously been some form of human interaction as he doesn't seem to be as scared as he should be if there wasn't, but I have some concerns.

1. He doesn't seem to eat very much - maybe a very small slice of apple possibly a grape (and a very small amount of seed) a day?

2. He shows no interest in his toys at all just sitting quietly on his perch often turning his back on you if you approach the cage or talk to him (he doesn't try and get away - he just ignores you)

3. He makes next to no noise other than when we let him out and then he squarks 4/5 times as he circles the room and that's it.

4. As we were told he was tame etc..etc.. we let him out and then he was a nightmare to get back in to such an extent that we now don't want to let him out again! We literally had to wear him out till he could no longer fly and then grab him in a towel to put him back - he is a strong flier and this took well over an hour and I lost three chunks of flesh in the process!!.

5. Because he wants to come out now and we are not letting him he circles the cage, climbing around it by sliding his beak along the bars. As this is a continous motion he has rubbed all the feathers off that are just above his beak. He has done this in two days so I can only see it getting worse - as he is not interested in toys we don't seem to be able to distract him.

6. He seems to be "un-bribeable" as he shows no interest in treats or fruit (defo won't take from your hand but even placed in his cage it gets ignored.

Sorry for the long post but just after as much advice or help as I can get to start with.

Additional Info - Seed and fruit always in the cage (should it be?). Until we took him he was with his two sisters (could he be missing them). Although we were told he was 4 months old we do not know this to be true (how can we tell?) He is in a very large cage now (could he find it intimidating?). If you move towards the cage or talk to him he turns his back on you but doesn't 'panic'. He is in our main 'living room' so always has company and we talk to him for hours a day.

Many thanks
Debbie
smallworld
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Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by smallworld »

Ayy I feel bad for you and the little one.

Well he's missing home, disnterested, quite likely depressed and maybe a little scared.

He turning his back away means that, he isnt interested. If he was scared he wouldnt turn his back to danger. I dont know about the extent of interaction that the breeder has claimed. Unless he was handraised from the beginning and they spent alot of time with him, alot of that would not be true. You see he was not the only chick to be brought up and his ability to do all of the above in 4 months is not impossible but just a tad bit unreal.

When birds dont eat, it could be a sign of 3 things : depressed, illness and scared. If you're certain he is a healthy bird then I'd go with depressed in his case. Did you inquire what they were feeding him at the breeders? Maybe he isnt used to your diet. Sometimes birds are shy and I have had experiences, when you actually have to leave the room, out of sight and hearing, for them to start eating.

Dont try to force interaction with him just as yet. Let him settle into his new environment. I wouldnt let him out just yet because it would be too stressful for him and for you. Plus he would hit the wall or the window and if at good speed, he could be fatally injured, because his beak would hit it first. Its better he gets a hang of things at home first.

His shouting 4 or 5 times is a call to his flock. He is lost, you see and he is calling for help. He is not interested in toys because, they are probably new to him and its a strange item. So he would be a little scared of them.

Is he in a cage all alone? A bird of this size shouldnt be allowed to lose more than 5% of its body weight. So you have to make sure he eats. Call the breeder and ask what he feeds. Leave the food there and leave. Dont give him too much of seeds but in the first few days its ok. Its comfort food and he will need the energy, due to all that stress.

He is 'unbribeable' because he is scared. Could be that he just needs time. No cage is too big, but just make sure that there is a high enough place and a spot he can go to, to feel safe.

Give him some space and make sure he eats. Eating a little bit is a start but alot more would be better.
Deb*in*Scotland
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

Thanks smallworld

I actually asked the breeder for some of the food that they were feeding him so as not to change his diet as well as everything else! It seems like a basic cockatiel mix to which I have added a few raisins to try and tempt him. I would say that he eats a small cube of apple (maybe 15mm cube) and possibly a grape (although he tends to nibble it a bit then drop it on the floor) I would say he is eating half an eggcup ful of seed a day - this doesn't seem a lot to me - I have had budgies and cockatiels and both have eaten more than this!!

I agree he is depressed more than scared - we talk to him continuously (probably too much..LOL - he probably wants peace and quiet to sulk!). We are out the house for only 3 hours a day so he is not 'bored' he is just not interested.

I don't feel we can let him out (although this is when he seems most animated / happy).

He does panic a little when we change the food / water etc...but is not aggressive he justs want to get out of the way!
smallworld
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Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by smallworld »

Well thats not much seed at all but it really depends on the bird too. Give him another day or two with the food. As long as he eats more than 2 tablespoons of seed and some apple, he's getting something inside him.

Is he with your other birds in the cage or is he alone? Better if he was alone but was able to watch how the other birds interact with you from a far. Yes I wouldnt let him out either. Not just yet. Going in circles is the way the rid off extra energy. How big is the cage anyway?

Dont stare at him all day too. They take as you're being a predator. Leave him be for more than 3 hours a day. At least just continue doing your stuff but dont talk to him or look his way. So he gets to observe a little of what you do, when you're not observing him :lol:

Good Luck
Deb*in*Scotland
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

smallworld wrote: Is he with your other birds in the cage or is he alone? Better if he was alone but was able to watch how the other birds interact with you from a far. Yes I wouldnt let him out either. Not just yet. Going in circles is the way the rid off extra energy. How big is the cage anyway?

Dont stare at him all day too. They take as you're being a predator. Leave him be for more than 3 hours a day. At least just continue doing your stuff but dont talk to him or look his way. So he gets to observe a little of what you do, when you're not observing him :lol:

Good Luck

I no longer have my other birds :( My cockatiel died of old age and my budgie got a tumour and had to be put to sleep (Before we got the IRN). So he is in a cage on his own with no other birds. The cage is 36" x 24" x 50"

When he is clambering around the cage it is the most animated we see him and if it were not for the fact he has worn off all his feathers over his beak I would not worry - but am concerned he will make it sore. The only way to stop him doing this is to let him out but then we have the trauma (and it is very stressful for all concerned) trying to get him back in. As he is currently 'unbribeable' and not eating well, so going in for food is not tempting!
Deb*in*Scotland
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

If this works then the pic below shows where he has rubbed away his feathers

Image
Last edited by Deb*in*Scotland on Sat May 22, 2010 5:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deb*in*Scotland
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

Couple more pics to follow....
Last edited by Deb*in*Scotland on Sat May 22, 2010 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deb*in*Scotland
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

Image
smallworld
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Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by smallworld »

I'm sorry about your other birds.

I dont think he is 4 months old either because of the orange ring around his eye. Its not very common that it forms so early. Echo does that too, where he goes around his cage, but never have I had a bird losing its head feathers from going around a cage. Sometimes the tail feathers may get stuck. Birds do lose feathers from being stressed.

I think you should take him to a vet to be sure he has no other underlying disease. The list of diseases that cause a bird to lose feathers is really long. So it maybe nothing to worry about at all. How reputable is the breeder anyway? Were the conditions hygienic? Is it possible he may have played a number on you? I mean about the health, age and training of the bird?

I'm not sure but I think we have the same cage and if we do then I think its pretty ok for 1 IRN. Looks like we have the same swing :D
Deb*in*Scotland
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

Hi

We hunted high and Low for a breeder of IRN's in Scotland. Advertised for one, asked on this forum, joined a facebook club, contacted pet shops and breeders of other birds but to no avail. Then we saw a small ad that simply said 3 young IRN's for sale. We rung it and the lady claimed she was selling for her dad who was a breeder and that she had hand raised the birds for him...etc..etc...

She was 90 miles away from me so we arranged to meet half way so I could see the bird. I fell in love and took him there and then. He has only lost those feathers in the 2-3 days we have had him :(

I didn't think he was as young as she claimed but wasn't sure how to 'age' him? I think there is an element of truth in her story as he is not as scared of us as he should be had he not had some sort of interaction. I love him to bits and taming him isn't the be all and end all...but I obviously want him to be healthy and that includes being able to let him out knowing I can get him in without too much stress!
smallworld
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Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by smallworld »

Hey,
well in that case, you should take him to a vet to get an all round check up. That is what I would do. Because it is important that he has a clean bill of health. IRNs in captivity can live well over 30 years and I'm sure you one a healthy little one too.

Stress does make feathers fall off and another reason which I over looked earlier could be french moult. This can show symptoms very early in age.

You see being used to people is different from a handraised baby. I had a bird that was from an indoor aviary. He recently passed away but when he came to us, the very first day he was home, he landed on my shoulder. Within a week, he was stepping up on our finger and taking treats from us. He said hello about 6 months later. He never had any training. The breeder told me she would just walk into her aviary and talk to her birds and offer them food. Sometimes they would land on her hand and take it. So you see, he was just used to people, which could be the case with your bird as well.

I'm not the kind of person who cares how old my pets are when I take them in but if the person I got them from told me truth or not is important. Because if you cant believe one thing she said, then everything could just be untrue as well. When you take that into consideration, its better to play the safe way out and get a good avian vet, to give him a thorough examination.

Thats just my opinion, hope I didnt sound too pessimistic. I hope that he will warm up to you and get along just fine :)
julie
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Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by julie »

Im glad you managed to find one :)
Some tips to try when you first get one.
Put the cage in a room that you watch tv ect-idea is to let the bird see you relaxing and it can observe you.
Eat where it can also observe you doing it-they are pretty food driven when they get comfortable being there.
Talk to him/her- just talk like you would to a person.
Let him/her get used to the cage for a bit before you let it out- couple of days.
Tell the bird what you are doing- you want the bird to know when your hand is coming its not to hurt it, if you want to scratch it or pat it say something like scratch scratch before you do it, if you want to get him to step up say step up as you put your hand out to him.

If it is still a pretty young bird it may still be able to have a couple of hand feeds.Is there anywhere close to you that you could buy some hand rearing formula? you would also need a syringe that doesnt have the needle.

My boy indie is really tame, but he is a nightmare to get to go back in his cage if he doesnt want to.He will actually run across the top of the cage and then if you corner him the head goes down and he pings his eyes and growls. they are also loyal birds and indie wont just let anyone interact with him, it takes a while to get them to realise whos good and whos not.
smallworld
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Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by smallworld »

Hows it going with the feeding today? Is he taking in more?

Hope all is going well with you two :)
Deb*in*Scotland
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

Hi

He seems to be eating a little more. We 'caught' him eating his seed when he thought we were not looking ...LOL - We were in the garden looking through the window at him in 'secret'...LOL He also ate a peanut and a grape as well as his usual cube of apple. It still doesn't seem a lot, but a little more than yesterday so I guess it is a step in the right direction.

We still have not let him out again after the last experience. We are waiting a little longer for him to settle in. He still turns his back on us when we approach him, but more disinterested than scared. We are just 'getting on with life around him, saying hello as we pass, but not making him the focus of attention - hopefully he will seek attention soon if he feels he is not 'included' in what we are doing?

Last night he was grinding his beak - that means he is relaxed doesn't it?

Also he is doing a lot of head bowing - he stoops really low whilst looking at you but does not seem aggressive - if you approach whilst he is doing this he simply turns his back on you again.... Any ideas what that is all about? With my cockatiel it meant he wanted his head scratched but if you reach out to him he simply turns his back again and shuffles away. Again disinterested rather than scared though??
smallworld
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:30 pm

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by smallworld »

YES beak grinding is a good sign :D

It means they're comfortable or happy with something. As time goes on you will see, that he does it throughout the day when he is happy or comfortable with something.

Yeah you see, he was just shy about his table manners when everyone was looking at him ;)

It could be he wants to get scratched but is still not used to you yet (with the head bowing I mean) or it could be he is gently and slowly rubbing his chin on the perch. They do that and sometimes rub their cheeks too.

Good to know you guys are getting along fine :) Good Luck!
Deb*in*Scotland
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 10:58 am

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by Deb*in*Scotland »

Yes hopefully things are improving...he really wants to come out though.....He is trying to force his head through the bars..LOL

He is still clambering round the cage trying to find a way out and in doing so is rubbing more feathers from his head (just above his beak). He is getting balder by the day! It is the only place he is losing them and he is not plucking or scratching at them, and if you watch how he scrapes his beak along the bars with his head pushed up against them it seems the most likely cause of his premature baldness!

I'll continue to monitor him and will take him to the vets if he doesn't improve but at the moment he is eating a little more and is beak grinding so I think we have progress of sorts! I am sure the feather loss across the top of his beak is down to them simply being 'worn away'.
smallworld
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:30 pm

Re: Was told my IRN was tame/talks/shoulder sits but seems n

Post by smallworld »

Dont be scared to take him to the vet. You should do it because birds rub their heads and beaks on perches and scratch themselves, all the time. Their feathers are not suppose to come off so easily. Besides, as I've said before, its always good to get a clean bill of health for new birds. Especially since, the UK has wild flocks of IRNs and flock birds can carry any number of disease. Some of which can affect human beings as well.

If he really is trying to squeeze himself through the bars, then maybe its time to start working on the taming.

In the other posts in this section, you will see various methods being discussed. Some find A beter and some others B. It all depends on you and which you would like to use. You could use a kitchen weighing scale and measure his weight. anything around 115grams is healthy. This should not be a sole indicator of his health status, but just a reference. A weight loss of 5% or more for a bird this size is in need of medical attention.

All the best :)
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