Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

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OkBtsy
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Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by OkBtsy » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:56 pm

This is our soon-to-be new feather baby! She will join our little chump son, Frankie, in a few weeks when she is ready and weaned.
We haven't thought of a name yet. We did make a silly pact to name our second baby Hank but she isn't a Hank at all! HAHA!
Image
She was very very sweet to hold and just so beautiful! I fell in love!
Any tips on introducing her to Frankie would be greatly appreciated! We plan to quarantine her for 5-6 weeks (depending on how she fairs) and then slowly get them to see eachother. Keep in mind Frankie has no coping skills whatsoever.
Can't wait to get her!

On another note, we have a training kit coming from the US, so can't wait to get into that!

Also pardon my terrible chipped neon nails :P

Wessel Gordon
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by Wessel Gordon » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:38 am

Okbitsy

Since Frankie has no coping skills as you point out it might be a good idea to cage them in separate rooms for the quarantine period. Of course they will be able to hear each other and interact through IRN noises and ''language''. Once they seem to be able to communicate without getting involved in a screaming match moving her into the same room with Frankie might work (still in separate cages, of course). Depending on Frankie's reaction to her you can gradually move her closer to his cage and ultimately let them share the same cage which I'm sure you're aiming at. Just keep in mind that this strategy might backfire in a way that Frankie hears a member of his own species but can't see it which might lead to him letting out screams of frustration. In that case your best option is to house them in the same room but far enough apart that they can't inflict injuries.

Just a quick question: has this lovely yellow darling been sexed as female?

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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by Wessel Gordon » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:41 am

Forgot to qualify my last question: if she is definitely female then there's a good chance that Frankie might react to her in a more positive way than would be the case if it was a male. After all: boys will be boys. Considering that I would suggest you have her sexed by an avian vet if it wasn't done already.

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OkBtsy
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by OkBtsy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:01 am

Wessel Gordon wrote:Forgot to qualify my last question: if she is definitely female then there's a good chance that Frankie might react to her in a more positive way than would be the case if it was a male. After all: boys will be boys. Considering that I would suggest you have her sexed by an avian vet if it wasn't done already.
You are a lifesaver! Thanks for your help!
We did ask how the babies were sexed and she said she knew due to the colour splits. Mum is green and dad blue. The babies were split with 3 girls (one white and 2 yellow) and 4 boys (3 green and 1 blue). I would like to get her properly sexed to make sure just because I know nothing about genetic splits.

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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by Wessel Gordon » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:19 am

I know even less about genetic splits. What I would suggest is that you ask the breeder if she's willing to have them sexed at your cost (at least her and any of the others you might be interested in). The only way a breeder can make that kind of prediction with a degree of certainty is if he bred both the parents and maybe the grandparents.The downside of course is a slight dent in your pocket, but hey, maybe the feathers gods are smiling on you and she turns out to be female as the breeder predicted.

I have a mature IRN female that I would have bet everything I owned that it was a male due to a slight ring. I actually went to the trouble of having it sexed by two different avian vets (vets are only human and can make mistakes) only to be told by both it's a female. Since then she laid several eggs so that matter is settled for all eternity.

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OkBtsy
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by OkBtsy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:00 am

Wessel Gordon wrote:I know even less about genetic splits. What I would suggest is that you ask the breeder if she's willing to have them sexed at your cost (at least her and any of the others you might be interested in). The only way a breeder can make that kind of prediction with a degree of certainty is if he bred both the parents and maybe the grandparents.The downside of course is a slight dent in your pocket, but hey, maybe the feathers gods are smiling on you and she turns out to be female as the breeder predicted.

I have a mature IRN female that I would have bet everything I owned that it was a male due to a slight ring. I actually went to the trouble of having it sexed by two different avian vets (vets are only human and can make mistakes) only to be told by both it's a female. Since then she laid several eggs so that matter is settled for all eternity.
I think she owned the grandparents too, she seemed very sure. Unlike Frankie's owner who used a crystal on the end of a string. So we actually want to get him sexed too. We are sure he's male since he displays like a male and has that box head, but you know...just to be sure!
The new baby's owner did try to explain to me but she may as well have been trying to explain quantum physics to me! THo it is something I should bone up on. Genetics, not quantum physics.

Hahaha I suppose the eggs seal the deal :p I found a vet that may be able to do a test for us. I'm not keen on yanking out Frankie's feathers tho!

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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by Wessel Gordon » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:22 am

The way they sex birds in South Africa that I've witnessed is that they use an endoscope (small camera at the end of a thin tube) that they insert at the spot just below where the wings join the body. The birds are knocked out for a few minutes for the procedure so there's no pain involved that I've noticed.

At least the new bird's breeder sounds like a reliable breeder but personally, just to be on the safe side, I would sex both Frankie and the new bird.

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OkBtsy
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by OkBtsy » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:31 am

Wessel Gordon wrote:The way they sex birds in South Africa that I've witnessed is that they use an endoscope (small camera at the end of a thin tube) that they insert at the spot just below where the wings join the body. The birds are knocked out for a few minutes for the procedure so there's no pain involved that I've noticed.

At least the new bird's breeder sounds like a reliable breeder but personally, just to be on the safe side, I would sex both Frankie and the new bird.
Oh that's so different to how they offer it here! Either you pull a feather out or get a blood sample from their leg. either way you have to hold down the bird. I don't think Frankie would forgive me!
I think you're right, always better to be sure and not wonder why they aren't meshing well (Or frankie starts laying eggs!)

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InTheAir
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by InTheAir » Sat Oct 03, 2015 11:59 pm

If Frankie is male I highly recommend you consider a male friend for him. 2 males are quite likely to get along, especially if frankie is very bonded with people. Females can be a bit bossy to shy males and a pain when they decide they want to nest under the couch or in the cupboards.....

vinayv92
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by vinayv92 » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:59 am

If the mother of the chick wasn't a lutino ( or albino ) , then the owner is quite right in saying the chick is a female .

Congratulations on the baby ! She is adorable :D

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OkBtsy
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by OkBtsy » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:24 am

InTheAir wrote:If Frankie is male I highly recommend you consider a male friend for him. 2 males are quite likely to get along, especially if frankie is very bonded with people. Females can be a bit bossy to shy males and a pain when they decide they want to nest under the couch or in the cupboards.....
Aah ok! She did have little blue and green boys. They aren't ready yet, still being weaned.
I did hear hens can be a little territorial when nesting season hits. All interactions would be heavily supervised if we get her.
If we got her would it be worth getting her a box for when nesting season comes, or will she just choose a place at her whim?

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OkBtsy
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by OkBtsy » Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:27 am

vinayv92 wrote:If the mother of the chick wasn't a lutino ( or albino ) , then the owner is quite right in saying the chick is a female .

Congratulations on the baby ! She is adorable :D
Coolio :) Yeah she was a stunning green!
And thank you! She was so so so sweet! I had to stop myself from cooing over her like a crazy person.

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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by InTheAir » Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:27 am

OkBtsy wrote:
InTheAir wrote:If Frankie is male I highly recommend you consider a male friend for him. 2 males are quite likely to get along, especially if frankie is very bonded with people. Females can be a bit bossy to shy males and a pincin when they decide they want to nest under the couch or in the cupboards.....
Aah ok! She did have little blue and green boys. They aren't ready yet, still being weaned.
I did hear hens can be a little territorial when nesting season hits. All interactions would be heavily supervised if we get her.
If we got her would it be worth getting her a box for when nesting season comes, or will she just choose a place at her whim?
Hens can be very hard to deal with for us over breeding season! If you search "what to do with Janey" on this forum you will find details of a worst case scenario. Sapphire is only 2 but was a bit obsessive about nest spots this year, I'd have to remove her from the speakers or wardrobe every 30 seconds or so. She damaged both the wardrobe frame and the speakers. Luckily she was happy to step up from them, but would go straight back. She was very short tempered about other stuff, we even got bitten a couple times! :o
As much as I love Sapph, I do think it would have been a good idea to take her brother. We potentially have another 20+ years of coping with a hormonal house destroying monster for 3 months of a year (believe me, it feels longer).

Providing a nest box also comes with challenges and possibly big vet bills if the hen has any trouble. You can also end up with a very territorial hen, who defends her nest to the death. A lot of breeders do seem to have a preference for untame hens, partly for mothering skills but also because of being able to check the box or change food dishes without getting damaged.

I would really think about it... Also, male ringnecks do like to hang out with other boys outside of breeding season if given a choice.

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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by OkBtsy » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:43 pm

InTheAir wrote:
OkBtsy wrote:
InTheAir wrote:If Frankie is male I highly recommend you consider a male friend for him. 2 males are quite likely to get along, especially if frankie is very bonded with people. Females can be a bit bossy to shy males and a pincin when they decide they want to nest under the couch or in the cupboards.....
Aah ok! She did have little blue and green boys. They aren't ready yet, still being weaned.
I did hear hens can be a little territorial when nesting season hits. All interactions would be heavily supervised if we get her.
If we got her would it be worth getting her a box for when nesting season comes, or will she just choose a place at her whim?
Hens can be very hard to deal with for us over breeding season! If you search "what to do with Janey" on this forum you will find details of a worst case scenario. Sapphire is only 2 but was a bit obsessive about nest spots this year, I'd have to remove her from the speakers or wardrobe every 30 seconds or so. She damaged both the wardrobe frame and the speakers. Luckily she was happy to step up from them, but would go straight back. She was very short tempered about other stuff, we even got bitten a couple times! :o
As much as I love Sapph, I do think it would have been a good idea to take her brother. We potentially have another 20+ years of coping with a hormonal house destroying monster for 3 months of a year (believe me, it feels longer).

Providing a nest box also comes with challenges and possibly big vet bills if the hen has any trouble. You can also end up with a very territorial hen, who defends her nest to the death. A lot of breeders do seem to have a preference for untame hens, partly for mothering skills but also because of being able to check the box or change food dishes without getting damaged.

I would really think about it... Also, male ringnecks do like to hang out with other boys outside of breeding season if given a choice.
OH WOW, thanks for letting me know!
Pardon the late reply, full-time work began so I'm all over the place.

SO My partner ended up going and surprising me with the yellow girl!! So I've gone through all the issues with him. Hold on tight!
She's so so so sooo sweet! She was definitely handraised a lot more than Frankie. Frankie at her age was very wary and bitey and just had little man issues. The girl (We named her Betty) is so calm and loves head scratches. Wait til teenage bluffing stages, tho!
My partner wanted them together right away but I pretty much shot that idea down.

We did get a clicker training kit and have started using it. Will also start using it on Frankie :)

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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by InTheAir » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:33 pm

Congrats on your new friend. I hope they get on well!

Please search the forum for "bluffing". I feel like I am always having to repeat myself on several different sites, so run out of energy to write about it at times...
Basically bluffing is some made up idea that is basically a self fulfilling prophecy... if you ignore a birds body language and try to force it to do stuff, eventually it will start biting to avoid things it doesn't want to do....
Considering I have 2 ringnecks, with vastly different upbringings, that never displayed any inclination to "bluff" and are generally happy to oblige me on all requests as they get stuff they like for doing it...

Barbara Heidenreich has written a post on her blog about "bluffing" http://goodbirdinc.blogspot.com.au/2015 ... f.html?m=1

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InTheAir
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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by InTheAir » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:04 am

Here is another professional bird trainer's response to my enquiry on "bluffing":


"Traditionally, the idea that bluffing body language in parrots is that it is part of a young bird’s normal developmental cycle, even, according to some sources, unique to certain species. I disagree, nor would I call it bluffing at all. More often than not, hissing, lunging and other aggressive precursors to biting even in young birds absolutely results in increased and sustained aggression when the human continues to press forward with their handling. Having raised fully flighted Alexandrine parakeets myself, I can honestly say I saw no such stage in their development, and I find it a far stretch to think of this as one character trait unique to one species in the genus Psittacula.

I believe that this behavior develops from lack of sensitivity when the bird is very young and handlers can get away the neonate’s malleable disposition and lack of learning history. We can use –often gentle- force and coercion to get the bird to learn to step up on to our hands, go into its cage, and step on to a playgym, bed, countertop, or stranger’s arm to play or socialize. As it begins to develop experience that human hands and interaction don’t always bring it positive outcomes and sometimes can be scary to the bird at first, the parrot will express its desires in ways that are natural to it, either through fight or flight. If we keep pushing past the bird’s body language indicating stress, discomfort, anxiety, or fear, we will get one of two things: either the bird will learn to bite harder and faster, or in some cases, the bird eventually learns to give up under specific circumstances and acquiesce. Either way, if we roll the dice and ignore the bird’s body language, we will never get a bird that looks forward to coming to our hands or has the confidence and trust to try new objects or humans and will sooner flutter to floor with a dangerous and hurtful thump if clipped or nip.

 Instead, when working with very young birds, we can avoid aggressive behavior all together by offering them choices whenever possible, arranging the environment to make the right choice more valuable than the other choices available. The bird can look forward to going back into their cage, trying new play gyms, unfamiliar rooms, strange humans, and so on, by pairing these stimuli with favorite treats, training games that include goodies and toys and mealtimes. Once the bird learns that trying new things brings about a positive emotional response, they will be more likely to try new things in the future. We can absolutely avoid this superstitious belief of the developmental “bluffing” behavior.

 As far as dealing with the behavior when we see it, we can work with the bird much like we could with any bird showing aggressive behavior. Instead of pushing forward and matching aggressive behavior for aggressive behavior, thus escalating the intensity of responses for both human and bird in the situation, we should work through approximations, starting with the nearest we can get to that doesn’t evoke aggressive body language. If this means keeping the young bird in the cage to avoid any unpleasant interactions to get the bird back in the cage to maintain consistency, it will produce faster, more reliable results we rebuild some very important basics for the health and sustainability of our relationship. Trust is the destination, not an inalienable right.

 Hillary Hankey

www.learningparrots.com

www.avian-behavior.org"


I have a very high opinion of Hillary Hankey as I followed her methodology (from her blog) to make friends with my parent raised ringneck. Sapphire went from being terrified of humans to running up to grab treats from me in less than a week. My avian vet thought I'd never really tame Sapphire -actually vet thought I was crazy for bringing in a completely wild ringneck for a health check and saying it was going to be my "pet".... Sapphire now steps up for the vet, but doesn't really hang around to be examined ;) The vet was pretty impressed anyway.
Hillary knows her stuff!

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Re: Our Second Feather Baby! Not yet named

Post by Wessel Gordon » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:05 am

OKbitsy

I see this post is very old but decided to give you my opinion on ''bluffing''.

As InTheAir rightly mentioned it's a self-fulfilling profhecy. I encountered what I thought was bluffing it with my very first IRN that I got from my mother during a long illness. She barely had feathers when I got her and had to hand-rear her so I thought I knew her moods but I didn't. What actually happened I believe was that I had no prior experience with pet IRN's (we had a few as kids but they were all aviary birds) so I didn't know which warnings she gave me not to approach or handle her at that moment. Needless to say that when her consistent warnings was ignored she defended herself in the only way she could: by ''biting''. The mere fact that I reacted negatively to that only aggrevated the situation to the point where at one stage I only gave her food and water out of fear of being ''attacked''

My advice would be to get to know her and to watch out for any signs of nervousness such as ''pinning'' of the eyes or fluffing up of the feathers especially those around the head.

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