Mutations

[littlemiraclesaviary]

Hi

I am new to the Indian Ringnecks and I have a pair of ringnecks currently on eggs that produce only visual lutinos however the male is a creamino. How can I achieve creamino babies?

[Recio]

Hi littelmiracle ...

Which colour is the female? I guess she is also lutino.
Male creamino means male lutino-blue-turquoise. If you pair him to a lutino female you will get all males and females lutinos split blue (50%) or turquoise (50%).
To get creamino babies you need to pair your male to a female carrying blue ot turquoise genes (visuals blue, turquoise, albino, creamino, grey, violet, ... or any bird split blue or turquoise). Then you will get some creamino females. If you want to get also creamino males you need to pair your male to females with the above genes (blue or turquoise) and with lutino. Since lutino mutation will eliminate the expresion of melanin the visual appearance of these females will be lutino, creamino or albino, despite any other mutation genes carried.

Hope it does not sound very complicated. Let me know which female you are considering to give you the statistics of the offspring.

Cheers
Recio

[littlemiraclesaviary]

so all babies that I get will be guaranteed split then from my creamino and lutino pair?

[littlemiraclesaviary]

my question is what can I pair with one of the offsprings of my pair to achieve creamino?

[Recio]

Hi,

Yes, all the babies from your couple will be split, but there are many possibilities: your creamino male can display many possible genetics:
1. Lutino, blue-turquoise (called single factor turquoise or SF turquoise)
2. Lutino, turquoise-turquoise (also called double factor turquoise or DF turquoise)
3. Lutino, acqua-turquoise

The first possibility is the most common (let's say 95% probabilities), the second possibility is less common but you can have it (let's say 4.99% probabilities), the third possibility with the acqua allele is very, very rare .... but it also depends where you are living.

For the first possibility all the chicks will be split blue (50%) or turquoise (50%), but they can not be split blue and turquoise at the same time.
For the second possibility all the chicks will be split turquoise.

Cheers

Recio

[littlemiraclesaviary]

ok so say I pair one of my chicks with a creamino or turquoise or violet what are the possibilities of my offsprings and should I hold back a male or a female or does it not matter.... sorry for all of the Q's

[Recio]

Hi,

Possibilities of outcome for one of your chicks (let's say a lutino split blue male) coupled with:

1: Female creamino = female lutino-blue-turquoise:

Males:
25.0% ino /turquoise(parblue) bl+/bltq;ino/ino; ............. lutino split turquoise
25.0% blue ino bl/bl;ino/ino; .................................. albino
25.0% ino /blue bl+/bl;ino/ino; ................................ lutino split blue
25.0% turquoise(parblue)Blue ino bltq/bl;ino/ino; ........... creamino

Females:
25.0% ino /turquoise(parblue) bl+/bltq;ino/Y; ................ lutino split turquoise
25.0% blue ino bl/bl;ino/Y; ...................................... albino
25.0% ino /blue bl+/bl;ino/Y; ................................... lutino split blue
25.0% turquoise(parblue)Blue ino bltq/bl;ino/Y; .............. creamino

2: Female turquoise = female blue-turquoise (I wil consider SF turquoise)

Males
25.0% green /turquoise(parblue) ino bl+/bltq;ino+/ino; .......... green split turquoise
25.0% blue /ino bl/bl;ino+/ino; ...................................... blue split ino
25.0% green /blue ino bl+/bl;ino+/ino; ............................. green split blue and ino
25.0% turquoise(parblue)Blue /ino bltq/bl;ino+/ino; .............. turquoise split ino

Females
25.0% 0.1 ino /turquoise(parblue) bl+/bltq;ino/Y; ................. lutino split turquoise
25.0% 0.1 blue ino bl/bl;ino/Y; ....................................... albino
25.0% 0.1 ino /blue bl+/bl;ino/Y; .................................... lutino split blue
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino bltq/bl;ino/Y; ............... creamino

3: Female violet : visual violet = blue-violet (I will asume single factor violet)Males
25.0% blue /ino bl/bl;ino+/ino; .................................. blue split ino
25.0% blue violet(sf) /ino V+/V;bl/bl;ino+/ino; ................ violet split ino
25.0% green /blue ino bl+/bl;ino+/ino; .......................... green split blue and ino
25.0% green violet(sf) /blue ino V+/V;bl+/bl;ino+/ino; ........ green violet split blue and ino

Females
25.0% blue ino bl/bl;ino/Y; ....................................... albino
25.0% blue violet(sf) ino V+/V;bl/bl;ino/Y; ..................... albino hidding violet
25.0% ino /blue bl+/bl;ino/Y; ..................................... lutino split blue
25.0% violet(sf) ino /blue V+/V;bl+/bl;ino/Y; ................... lutino hidding violet and split blue


Good luck

Recio

[littlemiraclesaviary]

ok so if I keep a female back instead of a male because say for instance I have no males would the colour possibilities be the same? And what would putting a violet dark green with a male of my offsprings produce?

Thanks so much for all of your help this is giving us so much insight. We are located in canada so not too many breeders of ringneck mutations here but there is a breeder that breeds most ,utations so thats why I ask so I can know what to ask for.

[Recio]

ReHi,

The colour possibilities and % of the outcome will not be the same for your female than for your male, since the lutino mutation is sex linked: all the lutino males will own 2 cromosomes with the mutated gen, but the lutino females only have a sex cromosome with 1 mutated gen. The female offspring of lutino males will always carry and display the lutino gen, while the offspring of a lutino female will never display the lutino colour (only males will be split ino) provided that his male does not carry any lutino gen.

If you put a lutino split blue cock to a violet dark green female you can get:

Males
12.5% D green /blue(T1) ino D+_bl/D_bl+;ino+/ino;
12.5% D green violet(sf) /blue(T1) ino V+/V;D+_bl/D_bl+;ino+/ino;
12.5% green /blue ino D+_bl/D+_bl+;ino+/ino;
12.5% green violet(sf) /blue ino V+/V;D+_bl/D+_bl+;ino+/ino;
12.5% D green /ino D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino+/ino;
12.5% D green violet(sf) /ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino+/ino;
12.5% green /ino D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino+/ino;
12.5% green violet(sf) /ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino+/ino;

Females
12.5% D ino /blue(T1) D+_bl/D_bl+;ino/Y;
12.5% D violet(sf) ino /blue(T1) V+/V;D+_bl/D_bl+;ino/Y;
12.5% ino /blue D+_bl/D+_bl+;ino/Y;
12.5% violet(sf) ino /blue V+/V;D+_bl/D+_bl+;ino/Y;
12.5% D ino D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino/Y;
12.5% D violet(sf) ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino/Y;
12.5% ino D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino/Y;
12.5% violet(sf) ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino/Y;

If you want to work with the dark and violet mutations I thinck it is better if you do it with blue birds: look at the outcome of pairing one of your chicks with a green dark violet split blue female:

Males:
1.75% D green /blue(T2) ino D+_bl+/D_bl;ino+/ino;
1.75% D green violet(sf) /blue(T2) ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D_bl;ino+/ino;
12.5% green /blue ino D+_bl+/D+_bl;ino+/ino;
12.5% green violet(sf) /blue ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D+_bl;ino+/ino;
10.75% D green /blue(T1) ino D+_bl/D_bl+;ino+/ino;
10.75% D green violet(sf) /blue(T1) ino V+/V;D+_bl/D_bl+;ino+/ino;
1.75% D blue /ino D+_bl/D_bl;ino+/ino;
1.75% D blue violet(sf) /ino V+/V;D+_bl/D_bl;ino+/ino;
1.75% green /ino D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino+/ino;
1.75% green violet(sf) /ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino+/ino;
10.75% blue /ino D+_bl/D+_bl;ino+/ino;
10.75% blue violet(sf) /ino V+/V;D+_bl/D+_bl;ino+/ino;
10.75% D green /ino D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino+/ino;
10.75% D green violet(sf) /ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino+/ino;

Females
1.75% D ino /blue(T2) D+_bl+/D_bl;ino/Y;
1.75% D violet(sf) ino /blue(T2) V+/V;D+_bl+/D_bl;ino/Y;
12.5% ino /blue D+_bl+/D+_bl;ino/Y;
12.5% violet(sf) ino /blue V+/V;D+_bl+/D+_bl;ino/Y;
10.75% D ino /blue(T1) D+_bl/D_bl+;ino/Y;
10.75% D violet(sf) ino /blue(T1) V+/V;D+_bl/D_bl+;ino/Y;
1.75% D blue ino D+_bl/D_bl;ino/Y;
1.75% D blue violet(sf) ino V+/V;D+_bl/D_bl;ino/Y;
1.75% ino D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino/Y;
1.75% violet(sf) ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D+_bl+;ino/Y;
10.75% blue ino D+_bl/D+_bl;ino/Y;
10.75% blue violet(sf) ino V+/V;D+_bl/D+_bl;ino/Y;
10.75% D ino D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino/Y;
10.75% D violet(sf) ino V+/V;D+_bl+/D_bl+;ino/Y;

Cheers

Recio

[littlemiraclesaviary]

thank you so much i definetly have a lot to consider

[littlemiraclesaviary]

I have another question, Keeping with the theme of holding back a male offspring from my lutino hen and creamino male pair I have a second pair that is a gray hen with a blue male. What would I get if I kept a blue or gray hen behind from that pair to pair with a male from my above pair?

[Recio]

Hi,

The male from your first pair would be a lutino split blue ot turquoise. I will consider lutino split turquoise for calculations.
The hen from your second pair would be SF grey or blue (if mum is SF grey) or just SF grey (if mum is DF grey) provided that no one is split to other mutations. I will consider a visual SF grey

Pairing the male lutino split turquoise to a visual grey (SF grey-blue) you will get:

Males:
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) green /blue ino G+/G;bl+/bl;ino+/ino; ..................... visual grey-green split blue and ino
25.0% 1.0 green /blue ino bl+/bl;ino+/ino; ....................................... visual green split blue and ino
25.0% 1.0 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue /ino G+/G;bltq/bl;ino+/ino; ....... visual grey-turquoise split ino
25.0% 1.0 turquoise(parblue)Blue /ino bltq/bl;ino+/ino; ........................ visual turquoise split ino

Hope it helps

Recio

Females:
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) ino /blue G+/G;bl+/bl;ino/Y; ................................ visual lutino (hidding grey) split blue
25.0% 0.1 ino /blue bl+/bl;ino/Y; ................................................. visual lutino split blue
25.0% 0.1 grey(sf) turquoise(parblue)Blue ino G+/G;bltq/bl;ino/Y; ........... visual creamino (hidding grey)
25.0% 0.1 turquoise(parblue)Blue ino bltq/bl;ino/Y; ............................ visual creamino.

[littlemiraclesaviary]

wow so it sound like between the two pairs I have I can make up a new pair that will produce some pretty neat colours thats great that may just save me from having to purchase a hen after all. I just went and looked up what a grey-green and a grey-turquoise looks like and they are pretty neat not to mention my almighty goal of producing creaminos can also be achieved so basically any red eyed birds from this pairng would be females and andy non-red eyed birds would be males? Is that safe to assume that will be all of the time I could just spare myself the DNA sexing?

[Recio]

Hi,

Yes, you are right: that 's a good thing of male lutinos, pallids, cinamons and opalines: you do not need to sex the offspring.

Good luck

Recio