help with color of chicks

[fred]

hello to all need help.

I placed a grey female and grey male together for the first time this year. I expected to get grey and possibly blue chicks.

They have four chicks 3 of then have pin feathers that are opening one is blue. but the other 2 are a very dark shade of blue not grey.

could these be violets? I dont know the color of the 4th chick yet feathers havent open

If violet is possible would both parents have to be split. I am not sure if it is a recc mutation

thanks

[Chriskoi]

From this pair you will get only blue and grey birds.

25% Grey (DF)
50% Grey
25% Blue

the df ones shoul look the same like the normal grey ones.

So if you think you have a violett chick then one parent must be a grey violett bird (but i dont think you have such a bird).

So please post a picture of the parents.

[fred]

thanks for the reply. the parents both look the same they appear grey. i will post a pic of the chicks when the feather out more they are not grey or blue. unless they are a very dark blue.

Is violet a reccessive mutation? if so i assume both parents would have to be split and of cores the chances of that would be very low

thanks again

[Fah]

Violet is a structual colour, like Grey. A bird is either yes, or no in this case.

Violet, like grey cant be split due to the genes nature.

Violet is remarkably different to both blue and grey, so it should not be hard at all to distinguish the difference.

The pins on grey/blue birds will always appear various shades of grey/blue/purple.. impossible to tell the colour generally until they actually break the pins and feather out.

I would say a good quality pic of what your trying to express would answer it up.

[Recio]

hello to all need help.

I placed a grey female and grey male together for the first time this year. I expected to get grey and possibly blue chicks.

They have four chicks 3 of then have pin feathers that are opening one is blue. but the other 2 are a very dark shade of blue not grey.

could these be violets? I dont know the color of the 4th chick yet feathers havent open

If violet is possible would both parents have to be split. I am not sure if it is a recc mutation

thanks

Hello Fred,
Violet is a dominant mutation which is completely masked by grey. If you put together a grey female and a grey male, one of them carrying the violet mutation, you could, of course, obtain violets (if your greys are SF, not if they are DF grey). A grey masking violet bird is not that rare because a lot of breeders have been trying to add grey and violet to obtain a "black" ringneck. They did not get it and birds were sold as "greys". Just to wait what comes out.
Good luck

Recio

[Jay]

hello to all need help.

I placed a grey female and grey male together for the first time this year. I expected to get grey and possibly blue chicks.

They have four chicks 3 of then have pin feathers that are opening one is blue. but the other 2 are a very dark shade of blue not grey.

could these be violets? I dont know the color of the 4th chick yet feathers havent open

If violet is possible would both parents have to be split. I am not sure if it is a recc mutation

thanks

Hello Fred,
Violet is a dominant mutation which is completely masked by grey. If you put together a grey female and a grey male, one of them carrying the violet mutation, you could, of course, obtain violets (if your greys are SF, not if they are DF grey). A grey masking violet bird is not that rare because a lot of breeders have been trying to add grey and violet to obtain a "black" ringneck. They did not get it and birds were sold as "greys". Just to wait what comes out.
Good luck

Recio

I've never bred Violet with Grey before but I've come across a write-up of an Australian breeder (Mick Blake or Willy Stobart) who claims that Single-Factor Grey does not totally mask Violet. His breeding result shows a remarkably attractive bird with both Violet and Grey.

I've seen SF Grey birds too with Blue tinges on their rump and nape area so this may explain that Violet may sometimes be visible when mixed with the Grey factor.

Because of this breeding results, the Grey Factor may be an Incomplete Dominant mutation in IRNs rather than the popularly accepted Complete Dominant mode of inheritance.

[Fah]

Hmm, would deffinately be something worth further breeding etc if thats the case.

Possible variations in the depth of masking is interesting to note. We have had a violet grey bird with the violet completely masked, hence why i was of the opinion this is how it was... will haras Mick to see if he was the fella responsible.

[fred]

thanks to all that have answered . the pin feather are now opening. i will try to post a pic this week. there is 1 blue,1 grey and 2 that i assume are violet at least from the pictures of violets that i have seen.

If they are indeed violets and violet is a dominant mutation. Is it correct to assume that the grey and blue chick are not split to violet?

also can someone tell me how to post a pic
thanks again for your help

[Recio]

If they are indeed violets and violet is a dominant mutation. Is it correct to assume that the grey and blue chick are not split to violet?

also can someone tell me how to post a pic
thanks again for your help

Hello Fred,
You are a lucky man if you really have violet chicks. If it was the case, the blue baby can not be split violet (otherwise it will be violet) but the grey one would have 50% probabilities of having violet in it, which would be masked by the grey. There are not split violets birds but violet coulour masked by grey colour.

[Recio]

I've never bred Violet with Grey before but I've come across a write-up of an Australian breeder (Mick Blake or Willy Stobart) who claims that Single-Factor Grey does not totally mask Violet. His breeding result shows a remarkably attractive bird with both Violet and Grey.

I've seen SF Grey birds too with Blue tinges on their rump and nape area so this may explain that Violet may sometimes be visible when mixed with the Grey factor.

Because of this breeding results, the Grey Factor may be an Incomplete Dominant mutation in IRNs rather than the popularly accepted Complete Dominant mode of inheritance.[/

Hello Jay

I have met Yves Leonard, a french breeder who has been trying to put violet on grey IRN for several years, in everyway: SF or DF grey with SF or DF violet. The only birds he could obtain were all visually grey. I have never seen a photo of this SF Grey birds too with Blue tinges on their rump and nape area . It would be great if you could post a picture.

[Jay]

I've never bred Violet with Grey before but I've come across a write-up of an Australian breeder (Mick Blake or Willy Stobart) who claims that Single-Factor Grey does not totally mask Violet. His breeding result shows a remarkably attractive bird with both Violet and Grey.

I've seen SF Grey birds too with Blue tinges on their rump and nape area so this may explain that Violet may sometimes be visible when mixed with the Grey factor.

Because of this breeding results, the Grey Factor may be an Incomplete Dominant mutation in IRNs rather than the popularly accepted Complete Dominant mode of inheritance.[/

Hello Jay

I have met Yves Leonard, a french breeder who has been trying to put violet on grey IRN for several years, in everyway: SF or DF grey with SF or DF violet. The only birds he could obtain were all visually grey. I have never seen a photo of this SF Grey birds too with Blue tinges on their rump and nape area . It would be great if you could post a picture.

Hi Recio,

Like I said, I never bred Violets with Greys ... just going by what some individual allegedly bred and posted on a message board. In theory, Violet is supposed to be masked by Grey. But if you've been breeding birds for a long time, you know that breeding results may not always conform to theory.

Here are Grey birds from my flock with bluish rumps and napes. If this was a Violet Grey bird, then the Blue areas would be replaced by Violet.

[Recio]

Hi Jay

Nice pic and ... yes, I can perfectly see the bluish rumps and napes. Greys IRN I have seen in France did not show this particularity.
The presence of these areas where grey is less expressed and allows expression of blue and probably violet (if present) ... does it keep a defined heritage pattern? Do DF grey, in your flock, also show these bluish areas? If it was the case we could not speak of grey as an incomplete dominant mutation but probably of modifying genes.

[Jay]

Hi Jay

Nice pic and ... yes, I can perfectly see the bluish rumps and napes. Greys IRN I have seen in France did not show this particularity.
The presence of these areas where grey is less expressed and allows expression of blue and probably violet (if present) ... does it keep a defined heritage pattern? Do DF grey, in your flock, also show these bluish areas? If it was the case we could not speak of grey as an incomplete dominant mutation but probably of modifying genes.

I don't have any DF Greys as I try not to breed DF Greys or DF Turquoise. To me those birds are not versatile in producing varied colors.

All modifier genes that are inheritable and changes the phenotype of the wildtype should be classified as a mutation if we can ascertain that only one gene is doing the action. Some genes have very little effect on the final phenotype and yet are classified as mutations. Misty (Khaki) come to mind.

As far as my Grey flock is concerned, this peculiar trait of theirs is inheritable and this has also been reported on other flocks worldwide.

[U.S Marine]

How would you get a violet or turquoise ring neck from breeding, I mean how hard is it to get one?

[Jay]

How would you get a violet or turquoise ring neck from breeding, I mean how hard is it to get one?

Both Violet and Turquoise are primary mutations. You can't produce them by combining other mutations. At a minimum, at least one parent has to carry such genes to produce visual Violet and visual Turquoise.

as an example:

VioletGreen/Blue x Blue
=25% VioletBlue (visual Violet)


Green/Turquoise x Blue
=50% TurquoiseBlue (visual Turquoise)

[Recio]

thanks to all that have answered . the pin feather are now opening. i will try to post a pic this week. there is 1 blue,1 grey and 2 that i assume are violet at least from the pictures of violets that i have seen.

If they are indeed violets and violet is a dominant mutation. Is it correct to assume that the grey and blue chick are not split to violet?

also can someone tell me how to post a pic
thanks again for your help

Hi Fred
Did you finally get the violet chicks from your greys? I know that the pics are not easy to take, to format, to put in the web, ... and so on (in fact I have never done it before), but, if possible, it would be great to see the babys.
Best wishes

Recio