Can anyone identify these birds.

Moderator: Mods

Post Reply
Coastal-Birds
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:54 am
Location: N.S.W Central Coast

Can anyone identify these birds.

Post by Coastal-Birds »

I Have some strang coloured young.Now about 5 mths old.
I didnt get pics when real young but seem to rememeber they had like down on them as opalines do.
Ill post some pics still showing the down but with feathers.
Also they have straight colouring.
Any help would be great.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... 100815.jpg
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... 0_0805.jpg
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... 0_0806.jpg
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... 0_0810.jpg
Fah
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:00 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Post by Fah »

First one looks like a pale greygreen pallidino.

I am guessing those pale coloured birds (the gren with yellow, and the grey with white) came from the same nest?

Are you actually able to tell us the parents at all? Or they are not known? Its awfully hard and nearly unrealistic to get a judge of what mutations they could be just with those pics.

The whitish bird im just taking a stab at, comes from a pallid line? Looks like an interesting mix of pallidino grey cinnamon. Ino can have very drastic changes to pallid birds, grey and greens in particular.

Will wait for more pics if you can.
Coastal-Birds
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:54 am
Location: N.S.W Central Coast

Parents are

Post by Coastal-Birds »

Ok the grey green pallidino you say is the cock of the young and he is with a a grey hen.But i have other pallidinos here and all have there true colour markings such as bleached flights and tails.
From this pair there has been grey cocks,grey green cocks,blue and all the hens are these greyish type looking lacewings except have brown in them one day and next will look like a pale grey lacewing.
Ive been told that opaline get down first and from memory all young had what i call down ,in the pic of the green one you can still see alot of it on its back.
Coastal-Birds
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:54 am
Location: N.S.W Central Coast

Only pic i can say is same as the lacewing wing??? hens

Post by Coastal-Birds »

I was looking on the net and found a american site now they haved a opaline cross lacewing bird on there.Im not sure if its correct but it is identical to these hens i have .
Take a look at it
http://www.indianringneck.net/MutationPics.html
Fah
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:00 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Post by Fah »

Ah cool, I couldnt see the opaline markings on the flights, but if you say they have that distinct pattern then that could be it.

If you could get a shot of the flights that would be great.

If you can get a shot of the parents it will easily show if they are opaline or not on their flights, a side on pic is all thats needed really.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... paline.htm

They do lighten pallids up quite alot in the body, so if they have that unique flight pattern, then that could be it. Its a sex linked mutation, so that should help in figuring out the sex of the birds if both parents do not have the mutation.
Coastal-Birds
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:54 am
Location: N.S.W Central Coast

Parents and young this years.

Post by Coastal-Birds »

Ok the parents far as i know are a grey green lacewing but i have all colour lacewing and he is different and not a pallidino.
His flights and tail seem to always have alot of brown in them and under his wings are chocolate brown.The flights sort of look lacewing but sometimes dont.He also gets a dirty brown wash on his back sometimes,it comes and goes.

Father
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... 100813.jpg

Mother a normal grey?
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... 100812.jpg

This years young in green and the questioned bird.
Note the greens had alot of yellow feather but not now only every flight has a yellow surrounding.
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... s/22-1.jpg
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv7/ ... /10810.jpg

Now as i said this lacewing?? is exactly the same looking as in the photo here.
http://www.indianringneck.net/MutationPics.html
The opaline-lacwing crossover.

Now this bird in question i just looked at and she seems to have that opaline bleaching on flights but she is a very flighty bird to get a photo of.
Ill try tomorrow.
So in saying this if that greygreen lacewing is split to opaline (greyheaded) then it could be a opaline lacewing crossover?.
So to produce a opaline would father have to go back over daughter?
And all mature males i have left are greys from this pair ,so putting one of them to what would give me a chance to get opaline .
Fah
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:00 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Post by Fah »

Opalines:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... paline.htm

Pallids:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/psittaculaworld/ ... Pallid.htm

That browning in the wings and colouring of the birds can be a few factors. Dietary (as you said it comes and goes, can effect the preenings oils etc), and it could be cinnamon in certain lighting conditions. The extensive browning on the flights is caused by cinnamon, which also very heavily lightens the bird. In a pald grey pallid it can almost whiten the colour. The young bird has decently brown flights, so this could also be a possibility.

The cock bird I would say almost certainly is a grey green pallid, quite possibly cinnamon, and is certainly split blue for the birds to have been able to produce a visual grey young.

Opaline is a sex linked mutation, even though I generally dont support inbreeding, opaline is not an overly accessible mutation so I wouldnt see a problem with father to daughter to produce split or visual opaline male offspring.

If you are right about it being an opaline, conrgats, you have yourself suddenly birds worth well in excess of $800 each for visual young. $800-1k you might find yourself being able to sell them for especially with pallid.

Ideally, to sell these birds as opalines you just need to get someones help in photographing the flights stretched out, in pallid birds this is really the only thing that can guarantee opaline in the bird.

I just got myself an Opaline Blue cock bird so hopefully more of this mutation will be accessible soon.

Do not put brother to sister... the father to daughter or son to mother are acceptable once in certain situations, but siblings to each other they are just too closely linked.

Opaline is a sex linked mutation, to get a visual opaline cock, the very least you need is a split male with a full hen.

It you have grey males (which will be split for pallid, since the dad was a pallid), just try putting them to blue pallid hens. If the males are split opaline, 50% of their female young will be opaline. Their young males will have 50% chance of being split or not.
Ring0Neck
Posts: 1714
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:24 am
Location: Brisbane QLD AUS

Post by Ring0Neck »

** Just away from the main subject
FAH,
You mentioned you just got an Opaline cock.
Where would i be able to get one at a reasonable price?
I know J Smith has them, don't think he has any available this year

Thanks
Fah
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:00 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Post by Fah »

I got mine off a long time friend in Sydney. Was one of his last opalines, paid under $1k for him, 12 months old. Kind of alot of money imo for Opaline... but being sex linked the males are worth a fair bit more than the hens.

Will ask for you, but I dont think I know anyone with any left until next breeding season.
Last edited by Fah on Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Coastal-Birds
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:54 am
Location: N.S.W Central Coast

Thanks to all for help

Post by Coastal-Birds »

Ive got some feedback from a Jay in the USA.
He seems to think that my grey green lacewing cock is a Pallid-cinnamon crossover.Awaiting on feedback from him as to breeding his sons and daughters.
Not really what i was hoping but least i know what he is from all his info he sent.
Jay
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:55 am
Location: Northern California

Post by Jay »

Here's my take based on your pictures and breeding results.

1. The Father is a crossover specimen, but does not involve Opaline. I believe he is a Pallid-Cinnamon crossover. He is also split Blue since he throws Blue series offsprings.

2. A male bird double-split to Cinnamon and Pallid (more popularly known as Lacewing) has the probability of producing 0.75% Cinnamon-Pallid crossover hens. But once the crossover event has occurred, the recombined mutations will be passed on to youngsters with the same probability as any other sex-linked mutation. What this means is that all the daughters of this particular male you own will be Cinnamon-Pallid crossovers... and will carry these sex-linked genes along with other autosomal color traits.

3. Your hen is Single-Factor Grey since this pairing produces Blue birds. All solid colored birds from this pairing will be male. All lighter-colored "Lacewing" looking offsprings will be hens. Getting your first batches DNA-sexed may prove my theory.

4. The Cinnamon pigmentation is very sensitive to sunlight. The more the birds are exposed to the sun, the darker they get... but is by no means permanent. Your particular birds show lots of brown pigmentation so the Cinnamon gene has got to be present. I seriously doubt it can be a different mutation. Brown locus (recessive Cinnamon) has only occurred so far on the Brownwing Budgerigars among parrot genera.

5. Opaline IRNs will have the characteristic triangular bleached wing pattern. I don't see that on your pictures. My Grey Opaline-Pallid crossover has such a pattern, identical to her sister the Opaline Turquoise Grey (picture below it on the link you supplied).

6. Pallidinos will throw Pallid and Ino hens, each at 50% chance among the hen offsprings. A Cinnamon-Pallid male will NEVER throw a visual Lutino, Albino, Creamino, Pallid (Lacewing) hen or Cinnamon hens regardless who he is paired with. Even if this male is split Ino, it will additionally throw Cinnamon-Inos, also known as the True Lacewings and they would look similar to Cinnamon-Pallids rather than Lutinos.

Note that the only sex-linked trait a hen can give to her daughter is her gender.
Post Reply