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FEATHER PICKING??? update

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nil
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FEATHER PICKING??? update

Post by nil » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:41 pm

Hi all

bebis, is a 5 yrs male, living with a female,5 yrs too,in a cage 100*60*180 cm.
This pair is in a room with other 4 pairs , 10 birds totaly.
All of them arent enough tame,they communicate with me,take food from my hands and so but i cant touch or catch them.
This room was outside untill june,bring them inside house.
Before 2-3 months bebis change behavior, he was getting bloomy and appeared to be very itchy and began picking mainly her right armpit, the inside side of his wing,near body.
He looks upset and chew viciously his armpit ,irritated the skin and plucking feathers in this area. Also he appears to be intensely preening ,plucking the dust feather. I saw that the plucking dust feathers is three times smaller than usual and the edge and perimetrically of the feathers , at the upper side of bird an at begining of tail, the color became brownish.
First i supposed that was a behavior problem, so i give him many toys,perches, wide number of vegetables, fruits, and seeds, vitamins, stones, wood to chew etc.
I change lamp of the room with a specific for birds and leave radio on many hours a day.
But without success. I Catch him before 1 month and treat with a spray for lice. The skin was irritated and red.
Now i think is bigger and i am afraid for skin damage and bleeding ulcers.
Unfortunately there arent avian vets here with experience .
I search too much in internet,books even the university so find these signs are about the same with a disease the Psittacine pruritic polyfolliculosis.
This disease probably caused by a virus.
I am in panic now, i am affraid for bebi, for the other birds and for lazaro too (his son ,8 months ,tamed,live with me home alone)
i dont know what can i do, i cant find help from noone.
i think my next step to catch him, examined his armpit, put an antibiotic ointment there, wear him a foam collar and give him drug ( Haloperidol) to limit the stress and stop the self mutilation.
Its enough difficult to catch and handle him.
have you any idea? do you know if i can find a vet in the internet?
Last edited by nil on Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

julie
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Post by julie » Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:18 pm

When you say there isnt avian vets with experience, does that mean there is avian vets that dont have much experience?

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nil
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Post by nil » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:51 am

vets here know dogs and cats but only few for birds,only basics.
i spoke with a dr vet from university, that he has write a book with avian diseases for birds, nothing at all. Most of the vets read this book to find who is the disease! He told me that i must exersise myself :shock:

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Post by BigChicken » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:02 am

Nil I was wondering about bathing, have you noticed more or less? Personally I would try to isolate Bebis so you can observe and treat more easily. I would also remove any water that is shared by the other birds just for bathing just to be safe. Use a spray bottle for now instead. Once isolated a collar would be a good idea. Once they start to pick at the skin it just gets itchier.

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lighting

Post by BigChicken » Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:34 am

Nil, you mentioned adding special bird lighting, just wanted to make sure that it is not a florescent bulb. All florescent bulbs actually go on and off with the frequency of home electricity, 60 cycles per second. Humans can’t see this, but birds have a much greater speed form the time their eyes see something until their brain processes the information. They need this ability for flight. This necessity for flight can be a great disturbance, and florescent lighting has even been linked to some cases of feather plucking. It obviously isn’t the cause in this case but if it is fluorescent, it could aggravate the situation.
I found these articles that may help.
http://www.featherpicking.com/Articles.htm

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nil
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Post by nil » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:59 pm

thank you bigchicken
the last month i give him 1 bath/week with spray.I use salts in water ( biobath-orlux).
the lamps are fluorescent but for birds at 5600 K,UVA_UVB http://www.arcadia-uk.info/product.php? ... &sub=&id=4
What lamps do you use bigchicken?

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florescent bulbs

Post by BigChicken » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:58 am

I was using Zoomed florescent bulbs until recently when I found out about the possible dangers. I have read so much about the different types of bulbs over the years from when we kept iguanas. Many claim that birds can benefit from them, and I don’t doubt it, but depending who you listen to, there is much debate as to how well they actually do in simulating sun light.
Have you noticed any change? Maybe you should considered giving an anti-biotic to avoid infection.

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nil
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Post by nil » Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:33 pm

i used this lamp about 2 mounths ago, after the problem.
no i havent see any change.
it seems me its not a simple feather plucking,i dont know.
i have observe 3 things , strange for me .
The feather at the upper side of bird getting brown from green.especially the edges, reduce of dust feathers (quantity and size) he plucking them and he looks melancholic. I think he has loses weight.
i dont get him collared, i think this must be at finnal.
I give him prednisolone from friday, i think for 10 days and also i make his cage double in size and multivitamins with amino acids in his drinking water, for a week.
After prednisolone i ll give him an antibiotic, i am looking who.
and then haloperidol.
i dont like drugs, but....
i hope one next morning see my baby healthy, every night pray for this.

thank you bigchicken for your help, i am grateful of that

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Post by julie » Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:21 pm

I would be taking him to the vets, even if they are not that experienced, they still may know something about bird disease or could tell you where to go to get help.

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Post by BigChicken » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:24 am

Nil, check out this site;
http://www.2ndchance.info/selfpluck.htm
This part caught my eye;
"New Developments:
The March, 2005 issue of Veterinary Practice News mentions studies on self-plucking in birds that responded to suplementation with 5-hydroxytriptophan or 5-HTP. This ammino acid derivative of tryptophan is important in the production of seritonin in the brain. Brain seritonin levels have been linked to obsessive-compulsive behavior in humans and primates. A dose is not given. I personally take 100mg of 5-HTP three times a day. You can use that dose as reference when adding it to your bird's diet."

Important to note that the dosage is for the writer, not the bird.

Also he offers veterinarian advice for a one time fee. I don’t know anything about him but here is that link;
http://www.2ndchance.info/consultation.htm

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nil
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Post by nil » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:14 pm

thanks dan
i gave him 4 days prednisolone and now i give him antibiotics.
after that i try with nutrition, before any other.
i have order from uk many supplements for that, i must wait 2 months to see results.
the malnutrition is the most common reason for feather picking

http://www.birdcareco.com/English/Arts/ ... cking.html

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Post by BigChicken » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:46 am

I have read many articles on feather plucking; our miniature Macaw Mickey was bald when we got her. We changed her diet and gave her much more attention and she recovered. Since your post I have been doing more reading on the subject. I have noticed that most of the avian veterinarian written articles mention malnutrition or vitamin deficiency as the most common cause of plucking or mutilation. I have changed my opinion on the subject because I have spent a lot of time thinking about dietary needs, and the difference between wild and captive birds. In my opinion, the problem has two parts. The truth is that we should not try to imitate the bird’s wild diet when in captivity. If a captive bird had the same food intake as a wild bird, he would be morbidly obese. Unfortunately to get the amount of vitamins necessary for the health of a captive bird, he needs to eat what amounts to too much food. Secondly, if you have ever examined the bottom of a bird cage you’ll see everything healthy you thought your bird was eating. I have always believed that vitamins weren’t necessary for humans if a healthy balanced diet is eaten. I think with our captive birds, it’s almost impossible to give meet all of their dietary needs without at least a small amount of vitamin supplementation.
I hope your little Bebis gets well soon.

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nil
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Post by nil » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:14 am

the problem has two parts. The truth is that we should not try to imitate the bird’s wild diet when in captivity. If a captive bird had the same food intake as a wild bird, he would be morbidly obese. Unfortunately to get the amount of vitamins necessary for the health of a captive bird, he needs to eat what amounts to too much food. Secondly, if you have ever examined the bottom of a bird cage you’ll see everything healthy you thought your bird was eating

excellent thoughts Dan
after those days search, i start to beleive the same like you.
so i make a whole year supplements plan.
This plan has 4 periods,maintenance,lead up,breedeng,maintenance.
each period have different supplements and doses.
I ll use a vitamin,mineral with amino acids,a calcium,prebiotics and probiotics,protein and herbs for liver and help to stimulate the bird's immune system.
I wait for these, i must wait more than 2 mounths to see results.

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Post by fiona J » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:20 am

good luck

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nil
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update

Post by nil » Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:36 am

all this time was very hard for me and my bebis.
i tried a lot (food, toys, lighting, supplements) but without any good result.
now bebis is at bad condition, is very itchy and picking mainly her right armpit, the inside side of his wing
He looks upset and chew viciously ,irritated the skin( has injury there) and plucking feathers in this area, the color of the feathers became brownish. Also he appears to be intensely preening and plucking the dust feather, now he hasnt any dust feather in his body .
Finally i found a vet who knows about birds ( the problem is that there isnt avian vets here), i take him there so the vet take swabs from his mouth and faeces and find a lot of Escherichia. coli, Staphylococcus aureus and candida.
This mean that bebis immune system is at bad condition.
Vet also check a feather under microscope and looks like itsnt PBFD.
Now i separate him from his female ( before 1 month breed 3 chicks but died after 3 days all) and i give him baytril, nystatin and thyrohormone.
friday i ll go to the vet again.
i am so sad and i still hope to my bebis convalescence

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