genetics

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swanwillow
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genetics

Post by swanwillow »

I punched it in, but don't know what it means, so I'm posting it here

Turq. malexgrey female

edit; for what its worth, this is the pair that produced my turq. cock
Jim
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Post by Jim »

I don't quite understand the question. Are you trying to figure out all the potential offpsring from that pairing?

Jim
swanwillow
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Post by swanwillow »

in a way, yes I am... so spew out that good ole thing you guys do!

and in another way, the reason I didn't understand the calculator, is cause thats the pairing that gave me my turq. cock, but according to the calculator I was looking at, turq wouldn't be a result...
swanwillow
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Post by swanwillow »

nevermind, I think I figured it out.

the female musta been split to turq. for the males to have come out looking turq.
Jay
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Genetic Calculator

Post by Jay »

Each of the entry buttons on M. Rasek's Genetic Calculator correspond to a Primary mutation. You have to learn to identify the primary mutations that comprise the most common colors. We will make your pairing as an example.

Turquoise cock x Grey hen

A Turquoise cock is usually TurquoiseBlue in its genetics. So under the 1.0 (cock) column, you select:

1. Turquoise
2. Blue (under the splits to column)

If you are sure that the cock is a pure Turquoise specimen (aka Double-Factor Turquoise), then no need to select Blue under the splits column.


A visual Grey bird is a combination of two primary mutations, namely Grey and Blue. So to annotate the hen under the 0.1 column,

1. Select Grey under the SF column or DF column depending whether you have a Single-Factor or Double-Factor Grey. SF Grey is more common.
2. Select the Blue button under the Visual column.

Select the Show Genetic Code button on the bottom. Then click on Generate.

If you punched it in correctly, you should have generated the following results:

TurquoiseBlue cock x Grey hen
=25% Grey Blue (visual Grey) cocks and hens
=25% Blue cocks and hens
=25% TurquoiseBlue cocks and hens (This is your Turq baby bird)
=25% Grey TurquoiseBlue cocks and hens



------------------


Here are a few other common color combinations which you can punch in the calculator:

Lutino = select Ino under the visual column.
Albino = Blue Ino
Creamino = Turquoise Blue Ino or Turquoise Ino
PallidIno = select Pallid under visual column and select Ino under splits column.



PS> A Grey bird cannot be split to Turquoise since a visual Grey bird is really Grey Blue and Turquoise behaves Co-Dominant in the Blue series. If a Turquoise gene is present in a Grey bird, it will be manifested visually. Hence you will produce a Grey TurquoiseBlue bird which is the 4th possibility on the breeding results above.
swanwillow
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Post by swanwillow »

ahhh

well, now that I can work the calculator a tiny bit better.. sheesh, I was going about that SO wrong! :oops:
Jim
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Post by Jim »

This thread linked below discusses the same pairing. The sexes of the birds are reversed as compared to the one in this thread but it doesn't matter for the genes in question.

http://indianringneck.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=4899
swanwillow
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Post by swanwillow »

yup, that helps too. I think I just needed to know how to run the gen calulator better!
silly machine. NOW I can start hitting those buttons more!
Jim
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Post by Jim »

That genetic calculator has the unfortunate characteristic that if you have the genetics knowledge to operate it you're pretty close to not needing the calculator in the first place. :)

Jim
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Post by kyria »

that'd be right ! lol
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kyria
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Post by kyria »

swanwillow wrote:... so spew out that good ole thing you guys do!

... lol .. nice ! I like that :wink:
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Jay
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Post by Jay »

I'm a big fan of this calculator. I like it because it is fast and convenient. A pairing that would take me 5 minutes to scribble out on Punnett Squares would only take a few seconds on this calculator. It even incorporates known cross-over rates.
Jim
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Post by Jim »

You hit the nail on the head my brotherfromanothermother. It's fast and convenient for someone who already knows how to put together Punnett squares.

Not that I can think of another way to set up something like that or anything. I'm just being a curmudgeon. :lol:
Jay
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Post by Jay »

Jim wrote:You hit the nail on the head my brotherfromanothermother. It's fast and convenient for someone who already knows how to put together Punnett squares.

Not that I can think of another way to set up something like that or anything. I'm just being a curmudgeon. :lol:



LoL. Ok so I guess I'll take it upon myself to show anyone interested on how to do the pairing in Punnett Squares.... that way it will be easier to do the GenCalc in the future :wink:


So here goes... for the pairing TurquoiseBlue cock x Grey hen;


1. Put the birds and the color morphs they carry in a Punnett square row header and column header per diagram below.

Image



2. Next, determine the chromosome combinations that they can pass on to their offsprings. This is probably the toughest part to do. Chromosomes come in pairs and any parent can only give one chromosome out of any given pair. A Turquoise Blue bird can only pass on a Turquoise gene or a Blue gene, not both. A Grey bird has to pass on a Blue gene in all instances and a Grey gene in only 50% of its zygotes since it is only a Single-Factor.

Image



3. Combine the chromosomes from both parents into the offsprings.

Image



4. Translate the combinations of chromosomes into their common names.

Image


Hope that helps :wink:
Donna
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Post by Donna »

Image




Thanks for posting all that but i guess I'm just too thick in the head :oops: Hell I'd be happy just to get babies this year :D


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kylie
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Post by kylie »

Sheesh.... :shock:
Kylie
swanwillow
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Post by swanwillow »

just for the record.. I failed my senior year of college, and genetics was one of the classes I failed... :lol:
julie
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Post by julie »

Donna wrote:Image




Thanks for posting all that but i guess I'm just too thick in the head :oops: Hell I'd be happy just to get babies this year :D


Donna

dont worry donna, Im with you.
Jay
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Post by Jay »

When breeding IRNs, knowledge of some genetics has advantages but of course it is not required. I firmly believe that most people are capable of learning genetic theory. It looks complicated at first but just like a baby learning to walk, one has to start to crawl first! :wink:
Jim
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Post by Jim »

It seems complicated, and when Jay or I or some others get going on it we probably make it seem even more so, but I agree with Jay completely. Most anyone can learn this stuff.

Jim
Melika
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Post by Melika »

I don't like making new topics if I don't have to so since this is a genetics question:

What is the difference between an autosomal and a sex-linked gene?
In reference to: how would I know which is which , by parentage or by looks?

Or is it simply the way it's inherited from the parents so that technically the gene isn't different in the bird itself but rather how it passes to the chicks in combination with the other parent?

Was that a confusing way to word the question? lol.

I guess I'm not looking in the right places but I can't find an answer to this question on the internet. :shock:
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swanwillow
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Post by swanwillow »

from http://www.internationaldovesociety.com ... etics3.htm

so its about doves? still explains it a bit.


Chromosomes are located within the nucleus of a cell and carry the genes. There are two categories of chromosomes -- autosomes and sex chromosomes. Autosomes are any chromosome other than a sex chromosome.

Autosomal recessives: Since autosomes occur in pairs (unlike the sex chromosomes), both males and females have equal numbers of genes on the autosomes. Most of the autosomal genes are recessive and require that both mutant genes be present if the mutant color is to be expressed. For these recessive mutants, the non-mutant allele is the dark (wild type) allele.
Melika
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Post by Melika »

swanwillow wrote:from http://www.internationaldovesociety.com ... etics3.htm

so its about doves? still explains it a bit.


Chromosomes are located within the nucleus of a cell and carry the genes. There are two categories of chromosomes -- autosomes and sex chromosomes. Autosomes are any chromosome other than a sex chromosome.

Autosomal recessives: Since autosomes occur in pairs (unlike the sex chromosomes), both males and females have equal numbers of genes on the autosomes. Most of the autosomal genes are recessive and require that both mutant genes be present if the mutant color is to be expressed. For these recessive mutants, the non-mutant allele is the dark (wild type) allele.


Ahhhhh, very good.

So, let's say I want a lutino with the sex-linked trait since I want my males to be green and my females lutino I would want a male lutino. I get that part.

But how do I know if he has autosomal or sex-linked chromosomes? Would he have to be the offspring of a sex-linked pair?
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Post by Jim »

But how do I know if he has autosomal or sex-linked chromosomes? Would he have to be the offspring of a sex-linked pair?


Your bird has lots of pairs of autosomal chromosomes (no one's really sure exactly how many due to the presence of small ones called microchromosomes) and one pair of sex linked chromosomes. In IRN's there are four mutations that occur in genes on the sex linked chromosomes: ino, pallid, cinnamon and opaline. Ino and pallid are different forms of the same gene and can not exist together on the same chromosome. All the other mutations, like blue, cleartail, pied, etc., occur on autosomal genes. There is also an ino mutation that occurs on autosomal genes but my understanding is that it's pretty rare. I'm not sure if there's a foolproof way to visually tell a sex linked lutino from a non sex linked lutino.

Jim
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Melika
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Post by Melika »

Alrighty then. Thanks a lot!

And now to do some reading on the matter. I have to read it hard copy though, internet reading doesn't stick as well with me when it's about scientific matters. :D
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