Late dead in shell.

Moderator: Mods

Post Reply
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

Hi guys,
This year my two pairs of ringnecks laid 6 and 5 eggs,totalling 11 eggs.All of them were fertile and properly incubated.The day they were suppose to hatch you could hear them chirping inside the egg.But unfortunately none of them hatched.When I opened the eggs all of the chicks were fully developed and had broke only their beak through the membrane but none of them had made the slightest crack on the outside of the egg.I was told that this was because of a too dry humidity but I am not sure about it because that week they were suppose to hatch was a very rainy week without stopping and I presume that it should have helped with humidity.What else could the reason be apart from humidity?
Now I have put peat instead of wood shavings and one of the pairs is again on 6 eggs and the other pair I am sure that is going to lay again.Hope that this time they will hatch.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

Take your eggshells to an experienced breeder and ask for them to also check if the shell isn't too hard or thick. Eliminate calcium supplementing for a few months. Also help the chick if too much time lapses from pipping. You will notice the rate and develop a feel for this over time. Here again you should talk to an experienced breeder on do's and donts.
Hope you come right here.
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

In fact I have already taken them to an expert breeder and told me that the shell is a little bit harder than normal but not that much.He suggested me to continue giving them calcium supplements and I thought that,that would make the eggshell even harder but he said that the supplement is absorbed by the blood and does not make the eggshell harder.But still this time I have not given them any supplements.Is there any way I can make them lay a thinner egg shell?Do you think that using peat instead of wood shavings increase humidity and make the egg softer and easier to break through?Could it be some sort of bacteria?
Thanks for your suggestions.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

Increasing humidity will help only if levels are low. What are the neighbors experiencing here? What are the levels recorded? I don't think its a bacterial or health related issue as all of these chicks completed their development cycle.
Go back to my advice on helping the chick hatch if this recurs.
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

I have bought a hygrometer and the humidity is about 80% on the outside and inside the nestbox is 73%.Suppose that it is enough for them to hatch.Now all I can do is wait and see.I am spraying a little water every other day possibly to increase the humidity if humidty is the problem.
Thanks a lot
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

This morning,2 of the eggs had internally pipped,but until now 7 hours later no sign of external pipping.very loud chirping sounds can be heared and they are pecking the egg very violently,but until now no crack on the outside can be seen.What can I do?should I help them out or leave them alone?in the first clutch they could also be heared but non hatched
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

Mark the point of the head. Make a small abrasion on the outside of this point and do this deliberately and slowly...in stages. Use a tweezer.Once the beak protrudes clear the external shell around the half the circle. This should be about just under half a centimeter wide. This will give the chick a chance to work at the shell and for you to monitor this. If you see progress fine. If not continue till 75% complete. Do this in breaks of 6 hours twice daily. This means by the2nd day the chick should be hatched.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

When I said mark a point at the head mean the beak of the chick. If you can pinpoint this area you are off to a great start. You won't hurt the chick the picking of shell runs across the width of the shell. Try to leave the soft inner shell for the chick to break thru.
Talk to me....good luck ... You can do this.
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

Sry,I haven`t talk to you later but I have been busy helping them out.First I made a small hole in the air cell.Then moisted the inside with some warm water and put them in an incubator.After a few hours peeled off some shell and then put them back in the incubator.Repeated this stage several times and now finally are out of the shell.All the yolk was fully absorbed and their intestines were dark green which means that they were trapped in the egg for long.Now it is night were I live and I cant put them back with their mother.Until morning I am going to keep them in the incubator.They are very exhausted and are hardly doing any movement.But for now they are still alive and if they make it through the night I will put them back in the nest first thing in the morning.The back of the neck is extremely inflated.Do you know the reason why?
I really appreciate your help.Thanks a lot.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

Put one back with the mother now and keep one in the incubator. You will be surprised at what she can do for a weak chick. It may be the strain of trying to crack a very hard shell that inflates the back and will probably go away.
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

Slowly they seem to be regaining their strengths.I wish I could put them back but as I said now it is totally darkness and I have to wait till the morning.Will let you know if they make through the night and if there is any progress.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

They shud b fine. Let me know what happens when you place them back. do it early in the morning.
Good luck.
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

Unfortunately both of them died.Something that I noticed that was abnormal was,that they were extremely sticky.Example their wings would stick to their bodies.Or if I put them together they would stick together(possibly because of low humidity).When I put them back in the nest they were sticking to the other eggs and wood shavings were all attached to their bodies.Another two eggs which started chirping late in the evening have stopped chirping this morning which I presume are dead by now.I will take these 2 eggs to a vet to possiby run some test on them to determine the cause of them not hatching.
Next week are supposed to hatch another clutch from a different pair but I am almost sure that they will not.
Thanks a lot for you help.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

I will ask my vets advice. Don't give up. Check if tha chick are alive by removing them carefully. This is also important practise. Are you counting the days as the sticky condition may be because of late hatching. When are the next batch due to pip?
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

The first clutch that we talked about laid its first egg on the 25th february.Started incubating when the fourth egg was laid.And exactly 22 days laters they started to pip.
The second batch had its first egg laid on 9th March.But I am not sure when incubation started.In previous years she used to start incubation on the fourth egg also.So they are supposed to pip +/- on 5th april.
I am going to save the other 2 dead in egg and take them to a vet that I have heared that has just finished studying about exotic birds.The only vet that is supposed to understand in birds.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

I know what you mean. Here too there is only one avian vet that comes to our area once a month.
If you can start earlier to assist the hatch then you can beat this problem. The sticky residue can be overcome .... First dry with a swab...then complete with careful use of a hairdryer.
You have got to start improving on the incubation start time for accurate monitoring of hatch day. On this day start to assist. Mark your eggs from 1 onwards to get the order right from the first laid egg to the last. Start with the first laid egg . Your chicks seem to die of exhaustion and if that is the cause then timely help is the cure. When I get some feedback from my vet I will advise.
You did well so far...don't quit.
Pappagall
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:40 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Pappagall »

I went to the vet,and he told me that probably 90% of the cause is that the egg shell is too hard.Next time he told me not to give them any supplements only a healthy diet.The other 10% could be a form of disease.Now he told me to wait for next year and if it happens again he would examine their droppings for bacteria.
This morning I checked the second nest that was supposed to hatch +/- on the 4th,until now 1 hatched normally and is very healthy,one died in the shell again,another one is also probably dead and the other two are surely still alive but havent hatched yet.
Molossus2
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:01 am

Re: Late dead in shell.

Post by Molossus2 »

Help them out if it's time.
Post Reply