Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

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JimHcctx
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Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by JimHcctx »

My friend and I have been discuyssing his recent hatching of a double factor violet lacewing male. If he doesnt end up selling it he will be breeding it and the question is what would be the best pairing combination for thie bird?

The mother was a double factor violet split lacewing and the father was a dark green ship lacewing. The entire clutch has some great babies, but this one is has been a topic of our discussions for the past few weeks and thought it might be interesting to hear everyones thoughts on the best pairing combination for this visually stunning bird.

thanks
Jim
Jim H
Nodding the head is not rowing the boat!
madas
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by madas »

Hello,

this bird can't be a double factor violet lacewing because the father doesn't carry the violet factor.
But perhaps the bird is a cobalt violet lacewing. double factor violet and cobalt violet look nearly the same.
only small differences.

Some here are the possible results for the parents pairing (if i understand correct "father is ship lacewing" = Is split lacewing?!? and the father must at least be split blue to get visual violets):

for typ 1 darkgreen splitt blue

1.0 D green /blue(T1) pallid x 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid
% from all 1.0
3.5% 1.0 violet(sf) pallid /blue
21.5% 1.0 D violet(sf) pallid /blue(T1)
21.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) pallid
3.5% 1.0 D blue violet(sf) pallid
3.5% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid
21.5% 1.0 D green violet(sf) /blue(T1) pallid
21.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
3.5% 1.0 D blue violet(sf) /pallid
% from all 0.1
3.5% 0.1 green violet(sf) /blue
21.5% 0.1 D green violet(sf) /blue(T1)
21.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf)
3.5% 0.1 D blue violet(sf)
3.5% 0.1 violet(sf) pallid /blue
21.5% 0.1 D violet(sf) pallid /blue(T1)
21.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf) pallid
3.5% 0.1 D blue violet(sf) pallid (this could be the offspring bird = > lacewing (pallid) cobalt violet)

for typ 2

1.0 D green /blue(T2) pallid x 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid
% from all 1.0
21.5% 1.0 violet(sf) pallid /blue
3.5% 1.0 D violet(sf) pallid /blue(T1)
3.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) pallid
21.5% 1.0 D blue violet(sf) pallid
21.5% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid
3.5% 1.0 D green violet(sf) /blue(T1) pallid
3.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
21.5% 1.0 D blue violet(sf) /pallid
% from all 0.1
21.5% 0.1 green violet(sf) /blue
3.5% 0.1 D green violet(sf) /blue(T1)
3.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf)
21.5% 0.1 D blue violet(sf)
21.5% 0.1 violet(sf) pallid /blue
3.5% 0.1 D violet(sf) pallid /blue(T1)
3.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf) pallid
21.5% 0.1 D blue violet(sf) pallid (this could be the offspring bird = > lacewing (pallid) cobalt violet)

Greetings.
Recio
Posts: 966
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Location: France

Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by Recio »

Hi,

1. I agree with Madas about violet: the chick can not be double factor violet.
2. Something else: the mother can not be split lacewing (pallid), she must be lacewing in order to produce a lacewing male chick. Something else: there are not split females for sex linked mutations (pallid, lutino, cinnamon and opaline).
3. The father must be at least split blue.

Knowing the right genetics of the parents and the colours of the other chicks would be of great healp. Could you post a pic of the birds?

Greetings
JimHcctx
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by JimHcctx »

Well, it looks like American slang is to blame here. After spending a considerable time in the book Asiatic Parrots and their Mutations. What we loosely had been referring to as a Dark Green was actually a Violet Green. We were fairly confused by your comments because his pairing of the "Dark Green" bird to blue's had always given him violets. However, his green is carrying the violet gene and is split lacewing.

The double factor violet female is also spit lacewing.

At any rate, we have a bird mart on Saturday and he is bringing the bird down. I plan on taking a few pictures; but he is 100% certain of it being double-factor violet lacewing.

On a separate note, I looked at your website, and was thoroughly impressed with your birds, the Violet clear tail was absolutely stunning!!

Jim
Jim H
Nodding the head is not rowing the boat!
madas
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by madas »

JimHcctx wrote: The double factor violet female is also spit lacewing.
First of all. There are really NO females that can be split for lacewing (aka pallid). Pallid is a sexlinked mutation.
which means there are only male possily split pallid. this is because females have only one X-chromosom which can carry a sexlinked muation. So if they carry such a mutation then it will be expressed in the phenotyp. males have two x chromosoms.
So if one x-chromosom carry the mutation then this male is split. if he carries the mutation on both x-chromosoms then he is a color bird for the mutation.

So i assume that the hen is a violet (df) lacewing (pallid). btw. please use pallid. lacewing is a old, wrong name.
Futher on the cock could be a bird which carries the violet gen. So we all know the names vary from country to country. If i remember correct in former days the violetgreens were called darkgreens in america. So perhaps the cock is a violet green.
Please take picture of this bird too.

So now the new results:

1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid x 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(df) pallid
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) pallid
12.5% 1.0 violet(df) pallid /blue
12.5% 1.0 violet(sf) pallid /blue
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(df) /pallid
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
12.5% 1.0 green violet(df) /blue pallid
12.5% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(df)
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf)
12.5% 0.1 green violet(df) /blue
12.5% 0.1 green violet(sf) /blue
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid (this could be your offspring)
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf) pallid (this could be your offspring)
12.5% 0.1 violet(df) pallid /blue
12.5% 0.1 violet(sf) pallid /blue

To check if the offspring bird is really violet (df) you have to make testpairings over at least 3-4 breeding seasons against a blue bird.
So if you get no blue offspring then you could say or sell the bird as a violet (df).

Greetings.
333greenbean333
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:23 pm

Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by 333greenbean333 »

Ok,
from all the info I have gatherd this is what I have came up with.

The parents

1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid
x 0.1 blue violet(df)
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(df) /pallid
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
12.5% 1.0 green violet(df) /blue pallid
12.5% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(df)
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf)
12.5% 1.0 green violet(df) /blue
12.5% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(df)
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf)
12.5% 0.1 green violet(df) /blue
12.5% 0.1 green violet(sf) /blue
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf) pallid
12.5% 0.1 violet(df) pallid /blue
12.5% 0.1 violet(sf) pallid /blue


And my advice is to put her with a cobalt or blue cock or a another violet or a blue opaline cock.

1.0 D blue
x 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid

% from all 1.0
50.0% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
50.0% 1.0 D blue violet(sf) /pallid
% from all 0.1
50.0% 0.1 blue violet(sf)
50.0% 0.1 D blue violet(sf)

I heard that a cobalt violet looks stunning!


1.0 blue
x 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid

% from all 1.0
100.0% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
% from all 0.1
100.0% 0.1 blue violet(sf)



1.0 blue violet(sf)
x 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid

% from all 1.0
50.0% 1.0 blue violet(df) /pallid
50.0% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
% from all 0.1
50.0% 0.1 blue violet(df)
50.0% 0.1 blue violet(sf)



1.0 blue opaline
x 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid

% from all 1.0
100.0% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /opaline pallid
% from all 0.1
100.0% 0.1 blue violet(sf) opaline


What bird you decide to put with her is really depending on your budget. there are short cuts but can take longer to achieve.


Hope I helped. Good luck
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((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))
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((((((((((()))))))))))
(((((()))))
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madas
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by madas »

333greenbean333 wrote: I heard that a cobalt violet looks stunning![/color]
That's right. And a cleartail cobalt violet much more. :D

But of the fact that he has a female pallid bird i would suggest to pair the female with a split pallid male.
first option should be a bird carrying violet (not to lose the ability to breed df violets) and split pallid (to produce pallid males).

second option could be a normal cobalt or mauve male. to produce cobalt violet split pallid males. which then will be back paired to to mother to produce cobalt violet (df) pallids (or normals).

Greetings.
JimHcctx
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by JimHcctx »

Hi,

I'm the owner of the Double Factor Violet Pallid. I've been breeding

ringnecks for the last nine years & have bred a few hundred of them.

The bird is a Double Factor Violet & I will send you pictures of her

& the parents after the bird show this weekend.

I bought my first Violet Green, "which I was told was a Dark

Green and as yourself has said, in America that's what they called

them," seven years ago & crossed her to a blue and the babies out of

two clutches were Green, Violet Green, Blue, and Violet. These are the

colors that you should get unless the male is split something else, like

Cinnamon for example. I also had many visual Pallids on the property

at the time. I only had the common Pallid colors which were Green, Blue,

& Grey. I purchased a Violet Pallid four years ago and sold her last

year. After selling her, I no longer had any visual Pallids in my

aviary. I personally don't care for the color because they look too

washed out so, I sold all of them.

The father of the DFV Pallid is a Violet Green. His father was a

Blue Pallid & & his mother was a Violet Green.

The mother of the DFV Pallid is a Double Factor Violet. Her father

was a Violet & her mother was a Violet Pallid.



I noticed in your last letter that you said that the mother of the

bird in question must be a Double Factor Violet Pallid. No sir, she

is not. She is a dark violet color from her beak to the end of her tail.

She does not have a white head, which she would have if she were any

sort of Violet Pallid.

The three babies that I got from this breeding were Violet, Double

Factor Violet & The Double Factor Violet Lacewing. The Double Factor

Violet Lacewing is a darker violet. Kind of like the difference between

a normal Violet & a Double Factor Violet & having that look to her but,

being a Pallid she is still a lighter bird. My intentions are to breed

this bird to either a Blue, Blue Pallid, Violet, or a Violet Pallid,

which will give me some sort of Violet in any case. Thanks for your

interest in responding to my friends inquiry.


Thanks

Brian Wootan
Jim H
Nodding the head is not rowing the boat!
madas
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by madas »

Thx Brian for your answer. Now some things getting clearer.
Lets summarize. :)

The mother is out of:

1.0 blue violet(sf) x 0.1 blue violet(sf) pallid
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 blue /pallid
25.0% 1.0 blue violet(df) /pallid
50.0% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 blue
25.0% 0.1 blue violet(df) => this is the mother
50.0% 0.1 blue violet(sf)

The father is out of:

1.0 blue pallid x 0.1 green violet(sf) /blue
% from all 1.0
25.0% 1.0 blue /pallid
25.0% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
25.0% 1.0 green /blue pallid
25.0% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid => this is the father
% from all 0.1
25.0% 0.1 blue pallid
25.0% 0.1 blue violet(sf) pallid
25.0% 0.1 pallid /blue
25.0% 0.1 violet(sf) pallid /blue

And now the female offspring:

1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid x 0.1 blue violet(df)
% from all 1.0
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(df) /pallid
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf) /pallid
12.5% 1.0 green violet(df) /blue pallid
12.5% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue pallid
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(df)
12.5% 1.0 blue violet(sf)
12.5% 1.0 green violet(df) /blue
12.5% 1.0 green violet(sf) /blue
% from all 0.1
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(df)
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf)
12.5% 0.1 green violet(df) /blue
12.5% 0.1 green violet(sf) /blue
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(df) pallid => this can be your female offspring
12.5% 0.1 blue violet(sf) pallid => or this can be your female offspring
12.5% 0.1 violet(df) pallid /blue
12.5% 0.1 violet(sf) pallid /blue

So as you can see the mother has not to be a pallid to get your offspring. but normally you will pair a split pallid to pallid to
get a lot of pallid. but this wasn't your intention with this pair if i understood correctly. So the violet (df) pallid is a lucky "by-product". :)

Greetings.
JimHcctx
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by JimHcctx »

Madas

Why do you keep refering to the offspring as a female? is it something in the genetics you are trying to say? Brian is about 95% accurate by site in sexing birds by looking at the head and beleives this bird to be a male.

I am just curious.

Jim
Jim H
Nodding the head is not rowing the boat!
madas
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by madas »

JimHcctx wrote:Madas

Why do you keep refering to the offspring as a female? is it something in the genetics you are trying to say? Brian is about 95% accurate by site in sexing birds by looking at the head and beleives this bird to be a male.

I am just curious.

Jim
Because there is no pallid male offspring from a mating cock split pallid x hen (doesn't carry pallid).
Recio
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Location: France

Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by Recio »

Hi,

Great discussion, great Madas

Cheers
madas
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Re: Double-Factor Violet Lacewing Male

Post by madas »

Recio wrote:Hi,

Great discussion, great Madas

Cheers
??????????????

:roll: :shock: :roll:
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