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Recio

I am fed up with you both Johan and Recio for time and again ignoring basic genetics of what a bird can and can't be with regard to the heterozygous Emerald. The df Emerald is Green series (or Blue according to you) needs no discussion at this stage. The other far more common heterozygous Emerald t...

Recio

... and now time for brainstorming. Let's fly very high, just like if smoking something :lol: There is a question I was expecting ... but nobody followed: if the blue-1 and the blue-2 loci are both coming from the same gene ... why are we invoking an action on pigment synthesis (enzymatic action) fo...

Recio

About the possibility of the Blue-1 and the Blue-2 loci being in the same gene ... it is not possible due to the definition of a gene, just coding for a protein. But I agree with you that définitions do not stick to reality many times. Recio, are you saying that the approach of two different blue a...

Recio

Some questions: How does the parblue hypothesis explain ... 1. ... that there are Emerald Turquoise combos with patches and others without patches? 2. ... that the patched Emeralds look Blues series birds (Willy's, pics posted by Ben) and the non patched combos look green series birds (Mike's and Ch...

Recio

Willy, where does the underlined fit in? On the basis that all alleles of the same locus found in any parrot so far are always of the same inheritance mode Johan, Recio is saying Emerald is dominant but at the Blue locus also. There so far as I am aware only sex-linked and recessive allelic mutatio...

Recio

@ Johan, I do not know which is the actual crossing over of these two blue loci but it should not be lower than cinnamon SL-Ino since we know for sure that (at least it is clear for me) there are already green and blue series birds. About the possibility of the Blue-1 and the Blue-2 loci being in th...

Recio

Your female is thus Wild Green/Turquoise SF Emerald, with the Emerald allele linked to the wild allele of the Blue locus . Recio, this is your conclusion so let's pair this bird with a Blue as Mike did. SF Emerald /Turquoise x Blue = 25% Green /Blue 25% TurquoiseBlue 25% SF Emerald /Blue 25% SF Eme...

Recio

What I see is a mainly Green bird without any patch. Recio, what bird are you looking at? If it is the bird Mike posted on 21 November, the one that is "mainly green" then that is not the mother of Mike's CHCT chicks. That bird is clearly not a CHCT. Both of the parents were CHCT. Sorry W...

Recio

Hi Willy,

Could you tell us the fluorescence emitted under uv by each bird?

Regards

Recio

Recio

Hi persistent gentleman Mike, Do not change, we need people like you here :lol: Let's analyse your results and see how they support the existence of a second blue locus. I would not consider cleartail in the discusion because it adds nothing to the debate. The female: you tell us that the female is ...

Recio

Recio said Willy's logics (very correct) is that if BlueBlue is present it is not possible to see any psittacin. Since this bird show psittacins it would mean that it is a parblue. This logic is sound whenever we are dealing with a single Blue locus, Recio unless there is another Blue locus you agr...

Recio

Yes! I know why! If Blue was able to mask Grey and Grey was able to mask Dark ... Blue should have been able to mask Dark. This is not true : Blue and Dark produce Cobalt ... So the hypothesis of Blue masking Grey is rejected and we keep the hypothesis of Grey and Blue as alleles of the same gene. W...

Recio

Hi Mike, I do not give up the hypothesis of Emerald as a non parblue mutation. Further I am deeply sure that I am rigth. If you read my posts I have never said the contrary. All the reasons have been pointed so I will not add anymore if nothing new appears. The anatomical, regulatory, evolutionary a...

Recio

Hi everybody, This is the pairings they made and the offspring results: 1. Cobalt x Cobalt ..... 25 % Blue birds, 50% Cobalt birds and 25% Mauve birds 2. Cobalt x Blue .... 50% Blue birds and 50% Cobalt birds 3. Cobalt x Grey .... sometimes 100% Grey offspring and sometimes 25% Blue, 25% Cobalt and ...

Recio

Hi Johan, Great news : I have just received the pic of such strange bird. Here it is: http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/cobaltchick_zps4a1b42c3.jpg I am still waiting for the results of their breeding observations. They will send them later (tonigth ... European nigth :) ). Wilma has...

Recio

Hi everybody, I know that you all know the rigth genetics of those birds. The exercise is to deduce the genetics of those birds from their phenotype and from the breeding results, just as if you met those birds for the first time. You only need to use basic mendelian inheritance patterns. The goal i...

Recio

Let's go: Johan descendent had travelled to this island with his wife, a wanderfull woman with an important scientific background. In the morning, while having their coffee (it was their prefered moment of the day), they decided to analyse the blue birds respective to the wild grey birds. They knew ...

Recio

Hi everybody, From previous comments I know you were expecting this post to come, so let's go. First let me acknowledge Gratz for his open mind. I will just develop his idea with some exemples. Please, Gratz, let me know if I am wrong or if I stick to what you were meaning. Let me tell you a tale: S...

Recio

Believe me Willy, I am quite sarcastic and even caustic ... but only in Spanish. To be sarcastic you need to "dominate" the language. That's the reason you will never find me sarcastic in English ... and if you think that I have been sarcastic anytime ... that's because I did not find the ...

Recio

Also some split opaline males show a very slightly lighter body and some tail dilution, as another example. If a bird always shows even just a hint of aberrant colour in EVERY Greenmutant then the mutation is dominant. If as you say in Opaline where only sometimes is there 'leakage' in the heterozy...

Recio

Hi Tienie, So ... which would be your conclusion: 1. NSL-ino does not completelly eliminate melanin? 2. The violet sheen in the rump and tail are mainly structural? 3. Both? Does anybody own a pic of a Violet Blue SL-Ino showing a phenotypic albino? Should we conclude that every Violet Blue Ino is n...

Recio

Hi Willy, You are repeating the same arguments again and again asking for discussion... but your arguments have already been discussed. A different thing is that you do not agree with the comments (master gene, two blue loci, structural yellow...). By the way ... you did not comment about the lack o...

Recio

... at Hans Meyer house?

Regards

Recio

Recio

It's already done.

Recio

Recio

Hi Willy, 1. Do Emeralds Blue (or EmeraldBlue) show any psittacin ? YES, of course ... otherwise how could they be fluorescents under uv? Fluorescence is due to the presence of the pigment ... so, whithout (almost) any doubt Emeralds Blue own psittacin. 2. Is this psittacin the same than in Parblues...

Recio

Thanks for the correction Willy ... but the main logic remains.

Recio

Recio

Hi everybody, Deon posted this bird in the yahoo forum 1-2 years ago. It is a bird from a friend of him living in the north of SA if I remember correctly (otherwise Madas will correct me). He named it Violino as was suppossed to be a Violet (SF?, DF?) Blue Ino (SL-Ino?, NSL-Ino?). http://i1298.photo...

Recio

Hi again, Something else: somebody (I think Gratz or Johan, but not sure) has recently written that maybe Green could mask Emerald. This idea has been coming back to my mind again and again, .... and I think that I know how we can use it. Our problem is that our reference bird is the wild green bird...

Recio

Let's go further, I am going to analyse the genotypes of known heteroalleles and homoalleles of the blue locus. I will try to give psittacin values close to reality. Possible alleles combinations and yellow psittacin expressed: BlueBlue ................... 0 BlueIndigo ................ 15 IndigoIndi...

Recio

Hi Recio Its me again I'm afraid, with some questions. Do all structural mutations necessarily achieve their effect through an impact on the cloudy layer? I can see how Dark and Violet combine by one making it narrower and the other altering its content. How might Emerald and Violet combine? Would ...

Recio

Does the concept of emerald possibly being a structural gene necessarily mean it will be co-dominant and should we therefore be able to see some evidence of it in the green series? Would it also mean that a different yellow hue or tone might be produced by it compared to that seen with turquoise? Y...

Recio

On the other hand, if she was in fact a SF Emerald TurquoiseBlue paired to the same BlueBlue cock the potential outcomes would be SF Emerald TurquoiseBlue (which would presumably be phenetically similar to an EmeraldTurquoise), SF Emerald BlueBlue (which would be phenetically blue because blue is a...

Recio

Hi Willy and Madas; You are both rigth. The only problem is what is understood by dominance. We should always say which allele is dominant over which. Dominance or recesivity is the way alleles behave one respective to another; it is the behaviour and not the gene itself what is called dominant or r...

Recio

Ben, you are cheating to save time! :lol: But, there is an important point hidden in this little exercise. Who is going to guess it right first... :?: Let's try. How do you know that at the third step, both green birds are for sure split for the same parblue ? To know it you must have first identif...

Recio

Hi, I am re-reading Johan post ... and he is rigth. His model would allow to get df Parblues for sure at the third step, no matter whether we are dealing with high or low level psittacins. We will not have any doubt that the final parblue offspring (whatever they look like) is homozygousn parblue. I...

Recio

Hi Johan, We did it in the past: take a parblue bird who has at least one blue parent or having produced at least one blue chick. Then you are 100% sure that this bird is a heterozygous parblue. Pair this bird to a similar one and you will get your 25% homozygous parblue (I will use Willy's easier ...

Recio

Hi everyone, here is a puzzle with a couple of different approaches to solve. However, I'd like to know what you think the best approach is. The goal, we want to breed a homozygous turquoise from a collection of birds with parblues available. However, we have no guarantees to which birds are hetero...

Recio

Hi Recio, Whoever has a df Emerald i highly doubt will do this pairing. We're talking price of a car here to prove something IMO has been proven from other species to this season's split emerald and Mike's results. Breeders are mad people ready to spend money to get a unique mutation but also to pr...

Recio

idea: What we keep forgetting is that the homozygous Blue mutation on its own removes ALL psitticins in each and every other mutation that we know of. Why then if Emerald is dominant does this not happen? A 'SF Emerald Blue' or a 'DF Emerald Blue' clearly have psitticins present. Why would Blue not...

Recio

Hi Kappa,

Thank you for the pics ... but my questions remains : is the chick nails colour darker than his father's nails? If rigth now the colour is already darker it would point to Deep as a melanistic mutation. If not yet ... let's wait and see a bit later.

Thanks

Recio

Recio

Hi Willy,

What do you call the non-compounding effect of parblues? ... Could you please describe an exemple with phenotypes and genotypes?

Regards

Recio

Recio

If Emerald was a parblue, a TurquoiseEmerald must show a deeper red ring than a TurquoiseBlue. Do we agree? I don't agree. The psitticin quantity in the heteroallele overall will be in between that of either, so a lighter neck ring IMO. If the psitticin quantity was cumulative the EmeraldTurquoise ...

Recio

No one can provide a pic of an Emerald parblue adult male showing the red ring? Sorry. I just went off your last post. An EmeraldBlue has a white ring and a TurquoiseBlue has a salmon ring so an EmeraldTurquoise will have a ring in between in colour IMO. Hi Madas and Willy, If Emerald was a parblue...

Recio

Willy, I am not asking for DF Emeralds Turquoise but for SF Emerald TurquoiseBlue (or EmeraldTurquoise if you prefere). I wrote: @ everybody: I need a pic of an adult phenotypic turquoise emerald male ( genotype EmeraldBlue or SF Emerald TurquoiseBlue or SF Emerald DF Turquoise depending on differen...

Recio

Hi,

No one can provide a pic of an Emerald parblue adult male showing the red ring? I really need it to continue my reasoning.

Thanks

Recio

Recio

Are you sure Ben? What if the father is a CT Emerald Green /Blue??? Then you can still get VioletBlue /CT and Green /CT /Blue youngsters. Your thoughts? BTW: two offspring birds prove nothing. My opinion. :( Hi Ben, I agree with Madas, specially keeping in mind that, as we have pointed recently, CT...

Recio

Chris, this is where you jump in and tell us how old are the first df Emeralds that you and Phil bred? Phil told me he sent you one but didn't realise it was df and that that is the one you sent to Deon. Phil asked me the other day how you tell and I just passed on what you have observed, that of t...

Recio

Hi everybody, In the past we have detected several differences between patched parblues (Turquoise, Indigo, ... Saphire?) and heterozygous Emeralds leading to the hypothesis that Emerald is not a parblue but, probably, an incomplete dominant mutation acting on feather structure. These findings were:...

Recio

Chris Thanks for sharing you experience and opinion with us. Forum members please give Chris an opportunity to share his point of view. Currently there is very little information available and this is the only way we can learn from a saddleback breeder. If you don’t agree with his statements and ca...

Recio

This is what red suffusion in a green bird looks like Recio. http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s541/Trabots/Trabots%20lorikeets/sent1.jpg Hi Willy, I agree that, for your lorikets, probably it was a diet problem. Anyway SCB bird's findings do not match the features of the lorikets. What did you d...

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