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Search found 966 matches

by Recio
Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:05 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Platinum or Pallid?
Replies: 14
Views: 1978

Re: Platinum or Pallid?

Hi Kappa,

It could be a very well marked Turquoise-SL-Ino. Did the parents produce any parblue offspring previously?

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:01 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Heip with identifying Mutation
Replies: 5
Views: 1031

Re: Heip with identifying Mutation

Ring0Neck wrote:He is a TurquoiseBlue Pallid (old name would be PastelBlue Lacewing)
... also named as "rainbow" :)
by Recio
Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:10 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

:P
by Recio
Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:58 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

Hi Paul, My answer in the FB fórum was related to the violet subject. Like Ringo I could not see the Indigo post. Heterozygous birds are those carrying two different alleles of the same gene: posible heterozygotes for Indigo from less to more psittacin: IndigoBlue SaphireIndigo (still to be fully id...
by Recio
Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:30 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

But keep in mind that mostly (98%) the dominant mutations are changing the structur and the recessive mutations are responsible for changing chemical or hormonal processes. So it is very unsual that CT is a structure altering mutation even if it is classified as fallow mutation. :( But there are st...
by Recio
Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:48 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

... the Indigo expressed in visual CHCT was reduced and in some cases vanish at first moult. The Indigo splits CHCT would seem to have their Indigo expression enhanced there were also a couple of birds that were normal (not visual for CHCT or Indigo) (11 chicks total). Hi Paul, Your results also po...
by Recio
Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:29 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

Hi Madas and Paul, Let's go for the meaning of morphotypes. A morphotype is a phenotype that can be achieved through different mutations either of the same gene (different alleles) or of different genes. Ex: for different genes: a yellow bird is a morphotype than a can be achieved through SL-Ino, NS...
by Recio
Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:57 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

Recio I have always understood the turquoise to be a different form of blue for want of a better description,,and not a combination of blue an other. Therefore blue is not needed for turq to express itself in sf ie..heterozygotically...Hence a green/turq to like paired produces this hetero turquois...
by Recio
Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:38 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

Hi Johan, Deon owns a "multirevolving" uv ligth with several different wavelengths to study birds fluorescence and he has shown us several high quality pics in the past. I am sure he has already look at his Turquoise Emerald combos under uv. Maybe he could contribute with his observations. Mike has ...
by Recio
Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:32 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Re: Biallelic expresion

Hi Mike, I wrote: " We should think in terms of two alleles expression, which is the norm, and the final phenotype as the result of the expression of both alleles and their possible interactions at the effector level (Ex Turquoise Emerald combo ). An allele will likely produce the same protein than ...
by Recio
Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:38 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Biallelic expresion
Replies: 27
Views: 4383

Biallelic expresion

Hi everybody, I have noticed that there are a lot of wrong ideas in basic concepts as what a dominant or a recessif mutation are. Ex: when people says that Green is dominant respective to Blue they think that somehow Green does not allow Blue to be expressed, or that Green "down regulates" Blue expr...
by Recio
Thu May 14, 2015 3:35 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

Re: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Hi Mike, What a "blue locus" means? It is a place in a chromossome holding a gene which acts on the metabolic pathway leading to the expression of psittacins (disrupting the production, the transport or the transfert of the pigment into the Feather). Whenever any of the steps is stop, we will get a ...
by Recio
Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:09 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

Re: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Mikesringnecks wrote:Hi Recio
One very simple question, is madas Stefan (Ma Das) or Lee or someone else?
Kind regards
Mike
Hi Mike,

Stefan Adams = Madas = Ma Das = naugthy german boy who should be punished when he hides his real understanding and makes questions already knowing the answers :)

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:40 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

Re: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Hi Madas, This si a theoretic frame to generally explain an apparent recessive behaviour of a parblue respective to Blue, in two different situations: phenotypic Saphire like birds (very low concentration of psittacins) and high concentration of psittacins (which could match the SB debate). In the p...
by Recio
Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:52 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

Re: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Hi, Let's consider two different possibilities concerning the existence of 2 blue loci: 1. Both loci are very closely located (higly linked), share the same origin and similar régulations, are involved in a similar task (Ex: synthesis of two different psittacins). In this case we can expect some kin...
by Recio
Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:58 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

Re: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Hi Ringo, I am assuming SB parblue as Parblue2Blue2 or Parblue2Parblue2, but you are rigth: most of SB have been paired to Blue series birds and thus they are very probably also split to Blue1 , but not Parblue2Blue1, since we are talking about different genes. That's why I wrote: "The problem is th...
by Recio
Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:33 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

Re: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Hi, The above considerations allow to explain an apparent recessive behaviour of Parblues respective to Blue in ligth patched parblues as a ligth Saphire morphotype. It has been argued by Chris that SB do not produce parblue offspring when paired to a Blue bird and the possibility of a recessive par...
by Recio
Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:01 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

Re: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Hi, IRN patched parblues (at least Indigo and Turquoise morphotypes) act through an activactory mechanism of psittacin production (partial psittacin producers) so that the homozygous parblues show more psittacin than their heterozygous (ParblueBlue) counterparts. Whenever the amount of psittacin pro...
by Recio
Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:33 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?
Replies: 27
Views: 3062

How could a parblue behave as recessive to Blue?

Hi everybody, It has been raised the question of a parblue behaving as recessive to Blue, as follows: BlueBlue .... Blue phenotype BlueParblue .... Blue phenotype ParblueParblue .... Parblue phenotype Who could try to explain this? Could this be the reason explaining the strange outcomes of Chris' S...
by Recio
Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:51 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Dark and Blue linkage rate in IRN
Replies: 3
Views: 875

Re: Dark and Blue linkage rate in IRN

Hi Paul, The punnet box is a statistic tool to study qualitative variables. We can use it to study Mendel laws, but we should keep in mind other factors which can disturb the results (presence of linkage, master genes, intergene dependency expression, masking, ...). When experiment results do not ma...
by Recio
Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:40 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Dark and Blue linkage rate in IRN
Replies: 3
Views: 875

Dark and Blue linkage rate in IRN

Hi everybody, It is commonly accepted that the gene location (loci) in the chromossomes is roughly conserved among species, specially inside the same familly (parrots for us), so that results obtained in one species can be extrapolated to others. Budgie is the parrot species with a higher reproducti...
by Recio
Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:57 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

To me the most impressive finding in Bob Irvine's female is that the melanin and psittacin deposition seems to be mostly independent, specially in the body (head colour is not easy to determine), that is I can not see a single feather showing a green colour, but just yellow or blue or white colours...
by Recio
Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:55 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

1. The red ring of a Turquoise Emerald (or TurquoiseEmerald, selon hypothesis) shows a lower amount of red psittacin than a TurquoiseBlue bird. This statement isn't correct. The emeraldTurquoise of Len Mitchel are showing a normal pink neckring. Hi Madas, I did not say that the Turquoise Emerald di...
by Recio
Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:17 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

All I can say from casual observation is that the intensity of yellow on my cleartails seems to increase as follows: from juvenile EmeraldBlue, through 1 year old EmeraldBlue, mature EmeraldTurquoise, juvenile TurquoiseBlue, mature TurquoiseBlue to Green. Hi Mike, Your casual observations in cleart...
by Recio
Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:53 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

Hi, To me the most impressive finding in Bob Irvine's female is that the melanin and psittacin deposition seems to be mostly independent, specially in the body (head colour is not easy to determine), that is I can not see a single feather showing a green colour, but just yellow or blue or white colo...
by Recio
Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:46 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

I have a rising 3 year old TurquoiseEmerald (or TurquoiseBlue Emerald) Cleartail and .... If I had to guess, I would have said that the TurquoiseEmerald Cleartail yellow is stronger than the BlueEmerald yellow but again I'm not at all sure Hi Mike; A TurquoiseEmerald (or TurquoiseBlue Emerald) is s...
by Recio
Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:25 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

Hi Mike, We have some data pointing to an inhibitory action of Emerald on psittacin synthesis: 1. The red ring of a Turquoise Emerald (or TurquoiseEmerald, selon hypothesis) shows a lower amount of red psittacin than a TurquoiseBlue bird. If the actions of Emerald and Turquoise were additive (ex: li...
by Recio
Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:14 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

Hi Mike; Some good lecture: http://www.bestofbreeds.net/al-nasser/article12.htm http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k_jones/clwyd/gray.htm Budgies's parblues (Yellowface I, Yelloface II and Goldenface) act all of them through an inhibitory mechanism, so that the homozygous bird show less psittacin than the...
by Recio
Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:29 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

Hi Mike, A blue gene is a gene which takes part in the metabolic synthesis of psittacins, its transport to the feather follicle or its final deposition in the feather. When defectif, it does not allow the final presence of psittacins and the bird appears blue. If only partially defectif it produces ...
by Recio
Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:05 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

Hi, I think that we are all saying the same things: we should not call SB a bird which is showing a transient parblue saddle which disappears at adulthood when psittacins spread away, producing the highest amounts on the wing patch and the head. This bird is probably a normal Turquoise. Babu says th...
by Recio
Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:37 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

Re: The saddle is back

Hi Madas, That bird is, as you say, an Emerald Dom Pied. The apparent yellow saddle is due to the lack of melanin in the saddle area (Dom Pied effect) and not to an increase of psittacins in the saddle. The parblue component in this bird is Emerald, and it induces an homogeneous increase in psittaci...
by Recio
Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:33 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: The saddle is back
Replies: 35
Views: 5022

The saddle is back

Hi everybody, This is the answer to Johan asking whether SB acts on melanin or on psittacin pigments: An optical saddle can appear due to: 1. Changes in melanin distribution in Dom Pied birds: 1.1. Lack of melanins in the saddle area (Dom Pied subtype).... it will produce a yellow saddle in a Green ...
by Recio
Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:26 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi,

I also think that there are many possible combinations of Dom Pied and different Parblues. My analysis is restricted to Chris' results as compared to Dom Pied Turquoise combos.

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:40 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi Mike, What I am meaning is that the true SB could not be a combo of Dom Pied and Turquoise, but a combo of an advanced Dom Pied and a Parblue belonging to a second Blue locus, with the specific characteristics that I have listed above. Babu's birds would be the true SB, and the australian birds w...
by Recio
Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:13 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi, From what has been reported and discussed about SB we could make some conclusions about the Parblue at work: About its phenotype: 1. It shows a rich, deep and brillant yellow colour with the highest concentration in the saddle area. 2. Psittacins regulated by sexual steroids are lacking, and thu...
by Recio
Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:30 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi everybody, http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/7%20Violet%20DF%20Harlequin%20saddleback_cock1_zps943ynybj.jpg The bird above is the same adult male you can see in the link below from the FB forum, given by Chris to Deon, and who has already bread those stuning chicks. This is a DF V...
by Recio
Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:44 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

From Chris:

Image

He will comment.

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:44 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi Paul, Most of us agree with you and think that IRN Dom Pied is the same mutation than the Budgie Spangle. It was discussed long ago and based on the phenotype of the homozygous birds (White or yellow black eye birds), the deeper yellow in Green series birds and the increased fluorescence under uv...
by Recio
Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:10 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi Chris, Probably SB is the result of combining Dom Pied with a very special Parblue. This Parblue would non belong to the same locus than Blue since you have never produced any Parblue after pairing SB to blue series birds. This parblue is probably also possible to detect in "split" birds as a shi...
by Recio
Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:16 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi Chris, If the male/female ratio of SB production is close to 50% we can say that there is not any sex linked mutation in the combo (not Opaline, not SL-Edged, ...). Another question: which are the outcomes of SB X SB ? I am clearly meaning SB X SB and not SB x Dom Pied in any combo. If SB was a c...
by Recio
Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:01 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Some more pics from Chris: http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/1-Violet.1.Saddleback_zpsk8jumcl2.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/7%20Violet%20DF%20Harlequin%20saddleback_cock1_zps943ynybj.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/19a%20Guess%20Which%20...
by Recio
Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:54 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Re: Underwing patch

Hi Mike,

This is the pic it was lacking.

Image

Expecting for Chris Comments.

Recio
by Recio
Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:15 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Underwing patch
Replies: 34
Views: 3766

Underwing patch

I am posting these pics on Chris behalf to discuss about the underwing patch as a possible marker of Saddlebacks: http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/DSC_0011-001_zpsa854733c.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/DSC_0009-001_zps290696f2.jpg http://i1298.photobucket.com...
by Recio
Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:49 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Hi Madas, My Cinnamon SL-Ino was ligther in the nest and get some steps darker later. It is also violet, which could explain the darker colour, since Violet is able to enhance any residual melanin (do you remember Deon's Violino, in fact Violet Blue NSL-Ino? He showed far more melanin related colour...
by Recio
Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:53 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: NSLino
Replies: 4
Views: 1359

Re: NSLino

Hi Madas,

Are you sure it was about NSL Ino? I read it also somewhere in facebook but if I remember correctly it was about a kind of fallow (dun fallow???)

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:55 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?
Replies: 28
Views: 4105

Re: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?

Hi Recio I will be pairing Emerald Cleartails to each other next season with a little luck. Probably VioletGreen; EmeraldBlue; CleartailCleartail cock to a DarkGreen; EmeraldBlue; CleartailCleartail hen (I am assuming emerald is a par blue until I can prove otherwise). Are you suggesting that I wil...
by Recio
Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:44 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Hi, It would be great if somebody owing a DF SL-Edged IRN could send some wing fligth feathers to Inte. Otherwise, if he can not detect any Brown melanin in the SF SL-Edged bird, we will not be 100% sure that there is/isn't Brown melanin production in this mutation. When there is a mutation of a gen...
by Recio
Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:31 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?
Replies: 28
Views: 4105

Re: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?

Hi Allair, I do not think that those birds are indigo. Indigo chicks are blue and only after fledging they develop some green feathers. Those birds are something different. As you say they seem to be highly iridescent and the more iridescent part is the extreme tip of the wing bar feathers, where we...
by Recio
Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:22 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Positif answer :P . I will send the flightfeathers tomorrow.

Recio
by Recio
Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:30 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

This is a paste and copy of some mailing with Inte: > Hi Inte, > > I have a 2 years old Blue SL-Edged male IRN. Would you be interested in studying its type of melanin? I have some reasons to think that it could be brown eumelanin (like for cinnamon) instead of black eumelanin. I am not sking you fo...
by Recio
Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:28 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Hi Mike,

Try to have a look at the skin colour under different lights including, of course, uv. Let's see if any kind of relation can be made with the final feathers phenotype.

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:18 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?
Replies: 28
Views: 4105

Re: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?

Recio this is an accurate discription of my experience to date however there is one other common trait in this family of birds that started appearing from different pairs of homozygous matings and these birds have been best described by Tienie as Cinnamon with a grey under tone (no brown visual any...
by Recio
Mon Sep 22, 2014 2:48 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Sorry,
This is the topic: viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18957

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:47 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?
Replies: 28
Views: 4105

Re: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?

Hi, We call a parblue to a bird showing a partial expression of psittacins. This partial expression can be achieved by two mechanisms: 1. Partial activation of the pathway leading to psittacin production so that a lower amount of final psittacin is produced. 2. Partial inactivation of the pathway le...
by Recio
Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:08 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

1) If emerald is linked with blue (assuming >50%) there is another high probability that emerald should be linked with the alleles of blue as well i.e. Emerald-Parblue linkage . >50% linkage ... is not linkage and is not possible since free inheritance is already at 50%. The linkage between Emerald...
by Recio
Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:45 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Hi Recio I have been thinking again. I agree with you that the possibility of a close linkage between Emerald and Blue would effectively negate the chance of proving EmeraldBlue by breeding my TurquoiseEmerald hen with a BlueBlue cock. However, as I have said before, surely anything other than Emer...
by Recio
Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:51 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

since the emerald green alex was bred from two green birds then the idea behind my thoughts is that the emerald and blue may share a relationship auto interlinking blue to emerald. ie emerald green is visually a green bird carrying blue in its makeup.Am I making sense? Recio this is on the basis of...
by Recio
Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:35 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?
Replies: 28
Views: 4105

Re: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?

The other family is still to be determined as to what their inheritance is though I suspect they belong to the Par Ino ,Fallow or Dilute this is to be determined. These will produce Fallow type occassionally and will lean towards a faded colour with a bright over sheen. This second family when subj...
by Recio
Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:15 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Recio I calls it as i sees it...Parblue= partial blue. if i am not mistaken that was the intention of the name in the first place... You are rigth ... and partial blue phenotype or partial blue genotype becomes similar whenever we are dealing with a single blue locus, but if we are thinking that, p...
by Recio
Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:18 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

ALL Blue series birds CARRY Emerald How many birds are we talking about, Ben? Granted, I think we are looking at an allele of the blue locus. Is that sufficient to classify it as a parblue? I think the answer is no. Hi everybody; First we must define what we are meaning with the word "parblue": Is ...
by Recio
Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:26 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Here is another update from Aaron : Second year breeding Violet green/Emerald/CT X Violet Blue Cleartail hen: ALL Blue series birds CARRY Emerald This confirms Emerald mutation a Recessive mutation to Wildtype (Green) and this supports Emerald being a Parblue !!! Thoughts? Hi Ben, I will "copy and ...
by Recio
Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:15 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutation?
Replies: 99
Views: 9576

Re: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutat

Yeap. Mother is for sure split blue because Lee already got an "emerald blue". All we need is a homozygous blue. :) Time will tell. But emerald is really a very attractive mutation. Nice silky shine on the whole body then sitting in the shadow or shelter. madas Hi Madas, Just a correction: Yeap. Mo...
by Recio
Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:11 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutation?
Replies: 99
Views: 9576

Re: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutat

Madas the green emerald hen is paired to a blue normal cock. 4 chicks..still to feather. thx. If you got one plain blue chick then emerald could be dominant. If all 4 are emerald blue series then it is 99% a rec. mutation but with small visible markers in the green series. :) Hi Lee & Madas, If you...
by Recio
Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:21 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Hi everybody: Breeding results from 1.0 Green/SL-Ino-Cinnamon (type 2 linkage) /Clearhead Fallow x 0.1 Blue Violet/Clearhead Fallow. Two clutches of 4 + 2 babies. Offspring results: 2 Green males 2 Green Cinnamon females 1 Green Cinnamon Violet Clearhead Fallow female 1 Cinnamon-Sl Ino (type 1 link...
by Recio
Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:49 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Recio, You can email them to me if easier. happy to upload them if a hassle for you. from this pairing results it seems that Violet and Clearhead Fallow could be linked. I found it to be the opposite in the last few years. Been trying to breed a Turq. Violet CHF for a few years, maybe this year.......
by Recio
Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:24 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Recio I can assure you there is a difference between sl edged/cinnamon and sl edged-cinnamon in phenotype. I still own a green sl edged/cinnamon/dilute cock but sold a green sl edged-cinnamon. Will contact the breeder to get the bird for comparison pics. Tienie Hi Tienie, You have misunderstood me ...
by Recio
Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:56 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

... and here is the good post (2011): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Genetics-Psittacine/conversations/messages/20358 The important part of Terry's answer: Cinnamon and SL-ino mutations in IRN Recio These loci are not unique to parrots and their juxtaposition is no where near as close in other ...
by Recio
Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:38 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

I have not found the file I was looking for but those here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Gen ... /topics/10
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Gen ... ages/14630

Hope it helps

Recio
by Recio
Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:29 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Hi Madas,

I will look for the link.
In fact in real life my hen colour is similar to the lacewing budgi you have just posted.

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:01 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Combining Ino with another mutation which isn't an allele of the ino locus should result in a fully (nearly) prevention of melanin prodcution. Cinnamon isn't able to bring back any melanin which is gone by Ino because cinnamon isn't altering the quantity . It is altering the quality. Means if cinna...
by Recio
Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:38 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Recio I bred and own a cinnamon-ino/blue female and her change in phenotype from birth to maturity is spot on as decribed by Johan. I understand your point about the presence of the dark factor but my hen display a light head almost like a pallid. How old is the cinn-ino chf hen and will her body c...
by Recio
Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:32 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Hm i have my doubts too. Violet is structual so why should it change the melanin synthesis? It is truly not the case for a violet ino combo which is still looking like a ino. For most other species we know that a combo of ino and cinnamon look nearly ino except for small grey brown regions. I think...
by Recio
Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:24 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Recio My apology for the late response. Will read all tonight and reply. If cinnamon and edged are alleles why do we have edged/cinnamon cocks? Regards Tienie Hi Tienie, We think that we have Edged/Cinnamon cocks because we evaluate mating results on the basis that Edged and Cinnamon are different ...
by Recio
Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:56 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Recio, Cinnamon-SLIno birds are born as ino's. It is only as they mature that the light green shade starts coming through. Hi Johan, This is the classic description, but I could see my bird was a Cinnamon-SLIno from feathering in the nest. As I wrote, probably this is due to the presence of Violet ...
by Recio
Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:00 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Hi Ben, I think that the remaining melanin is enhanced by the presence of Violet. I have never seen any other pic of SL-Ino-Cinnamon but descriptions say that it is a light green yellowish bird. What about the more marked primary wing feathers? Would it be the result of Cinnamon + Violet or could al...
by Recio
Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:48 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Hi Recio, such a breeding strategy won't be necessary, since if one assumes that such a female (SL Edged-Cinnamon) exists for two mutations on the z-chromosone, then they can not be alleles to begin with and must be at separate loci (a female can only carry one allele of a locus on the z-chromosone...
by Recio
Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:48 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

The pics: Cin-SL-Ino Violet Clearhead Fallow besides a Green Cinnamon http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/P8281040_zps6d1d66a1.jpg Cin-SL-Ino Violet Clearhead Fallow besides a normal Green http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/P8281041_zps18b8656c.jpg Cin-SL-Ino Violet Clea...
by Recio
Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:02 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Re: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Hi Johan and Ben, Violet enhances optically the residual melanin and the bird appears with marked primary wing feathers. Body colour is ligth green yellow. I know that clearhead fallow is at work because of the eye. I knew that the male was split clearhead fallow but I knew nothing about possible sp...
by Recio
Thu Sep 04, 2014 1:38 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?
Replies: 33
Views: 4118

Are Clearhead fallow and Violet linked?

Hi everybody: Breeding results from 1.0 Green/SL-Ino-Cinnamon (type 2 linkage) /Clearhead Fallow x 0.1 Blue Violet/Clearhead Fallow. Two clutches of 4 + 2 babies. Offspring results: 2 Green males 2 Green Cinnamon females 1 Green Cinnamon Violet Clearhead Fallow female 1 Cinnamon-Sl Ino (type 1 linka...
by Recio
Thu Sep 04, 2014 12:11 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds12May2013014_zps23f70779.jpg http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y403/carrbirds/CarrBirds12May2013011_zps2f4dbbf7.jpg Notice the light feet of the cobalt sf sl edged-cinnamon Tienie Hi Tienie, In both pics the bird with the ligther nails a...
by Recio
Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:02 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Recio wrote 2. The Edged females are similar (equal?) to cinnamon edged females (Tienie's report. See here: http://www.indianringneck.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=91271). Maybe the Edges females and the Cinnamon Edges females are so similar because they are both just Edges females. If SL-Edged and Cin...
by Recio
Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:56 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Hi everybody, I have just come from visiting the aviaries of Sandrine Tremplin and passing a wonderfull time with her and her husband. They have been breeding SL-Edged Cinnamon combo and confirm Tienie's report about a patched pattern in juveniles. It means that this patching is not due to minor gen...
by Recio
Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:30 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: 2B or not 2B ?
Replies: 29
Views: 3249

Re: 2B or not 2B ?

Why? I think the opaline does not have the right color palett/playground to do its magic, or it won't allow it. hopefully pieds+ parblues? could provide such environment for Opaline to do its magical play of colors. Hi Ben, yes, unfortunately IRN breeders are going to miss out on the real magic, wh...
by Recio
Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:31 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Ben & Mike, Please, have also a look at a possible fluorescence of the skin and the beak. I do not yet completelly give up the possibility of a structural yellow in Emeralds. In this case it could be a different keratin at work, and even the skin and /or the beak and/or the nails (owing also keratin...
by Recio
Fri Aug 29, 2014 2:58 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Hi Recio, pressed for time so will go into your response later. For now, consider this (since you want to talk about males). Tienie mentioned to me that he has produced a cinnamon hen from a SF SL Edged / opaline / cinnamon cock. I assume he is talking about a red eyed bird, since I doubt he will c...
by Recio
Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:14 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Me again, In the post about the fusi mutation: Stefan Crossover rate of SL Edged and Cinnamon is a lot higher I would say 25%. That's the hen. I paired her father a Cobalt SL Edged-cinnamon to a cinnamon-ino/blue hen last season. Unfortunately the pair only produced 1 baby, a cinnamon - will have it...
by Recio
Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:06 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

PS: I have not ventured into the territory of male birds. I feel the females already tell the story. :) ... but Johan, do you still believe in females stories? :lol: Let's see: 1. It has been detected a little transitory difference in juvéniles between SL-Edged females and SL-Edged-Cinnamon combos....
by Recio
Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:43 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Thanks Johan for your input. In fact Tienie words were as follows: Stefan I understand your opinion and agree with it. The only SL mutation it was tested is cinnamon. (SL edged/cinnamon & green). The problem you are sitting with is that it is very difficult to distinguish between cinnamon edged and ...
by Recio
Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:55 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Let's analyse other facts: 1. Where the cinnamon and the SL-Edged locus are located: they are so closely located that we are speaking about the SL-Edged-Cinnamon-SL Ino/Pallid complex. So it could be that, in fact, both Cinnamon and SL-Edged locus could be the same. For further analysis of the dista...
by Recio
Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:24 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

Re: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Recio, This is a tough nut to crack . My brain keeps resetting half way through :lol: I like the challenge though & i'm sure others will have a real crack at it, i guess anyone attempting this better have some free time & a bit of Yoga might also help :D It is not so hard. We just should change our...
by Recio
Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:04 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?
Replies: 50
Views: 5343

SL Edged and Cinnamon: alleles or mutations?

Hi everybody, Let's think about the possibility that SL-Edged and Cinnamon were different alleles of the same locus. I am absolutelly sure that this possibility has already pup up in somebody's mind :wink: . I propose you all to list the reasons for and against this hypothesis. The first and more im...
by Recio
Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:13 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Hi Ben,

First have a look at the parents to detect the difference between Emerald and other green series birds. Then you will know what you should look for on the babies down.

Recio
by Recio
Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:25 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Thumbs up guys :lol: :lol: :lol:
by Recio
Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:53 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

For me, there is still uncertainty over the order of the inner loci, SL Edged, Cinnamon and SL Ino. I don't think there is enough SL Edged opaline offspring yet to conclude it's OR or P. Not many of them have been bred, but at least we can conclude that crossing over is fairly easy (but not if it i...
by Recio
Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:38 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Re: Emerald, einmal

Since Emerald is also expressed from fledging I was wandering if the down of young Emeralds could also be different than the down expressed by the classic parblues. I can have a look in a few days Recio, I have 5 young in the nest just hatched a couple of days ago. Congratulations. Do you own a par...
by Recio
Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:35 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Saddleback ?
Replies: 186
Views: 27451

Re: Saddleback ?

Hi Madas,

I can not see any cinnamon marker in either the nails, the feet colour, the bill or the wing feathers.

About the reason of the translucent iris other than clear head fallow ... nor idea :(

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:41 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald, einmal
Replies: 67
Views: 6894

Emerald, einmal

Hi everybody, Just some ideas and one question: 1. Emerald is readily visible at fledging. 2. Emerald can be easily recognized by the underwing patch in blue series birds 3. It seems that green birds owing Emerald (split to Emerald for ones or a dominant mutation for others, me too) are easier to de...
by Recio
Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:44 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi Johan, Thanks for the references. Inte described an offspring ratio (OR) of 40.5% between Opaline and Slate in budgies. At the time he wrote that article he was studing the crossing over rate (P) between Cinnamon and Slate and preliminary results pointed to around 5% of OR. We can make some calcu...
by Recio
Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:11 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Yes, I think so. It would seem that SL-Edge, Cinnamon and SL-Ino/Pallid were all together in around 5 LMU. It will be really hard to know exactly which one is besides the other. In this situation any linkage between any 2 or 3 of these mutations would inherit as a single mutation: 1. Cin-SL Ino ... ...
by Recio
Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:15 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi Madas; 1. About nails colour: it mainly depends on melanin content and much less on structural changes. The bird showing black nails, also show a darker skin and a greener belly than the one showing ligth nails. These findings point to a different level in melanin content between both birds. You ...
by Recio
Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:50 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Unfortunately, due to the very strong linkage between pallid and cinnamon, it will be hard to tell whether we are dealing with two distinct alleles of cinnamon, or rather the cinnamon-pallid crossover by looking at the hen offspring. They would need to be tested to have a conclusive answer. My sugg...
by Recio
Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:19 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi, Let's come back to the main subject evoqued by Traceyweller: are there two types of cinnamon ot just one fron the pics that have been posted? Possibilities: 1. Yes, there are two different types of cinnamon. For: different nails colour from the present post and old communications. Probably also ...
by Recio
Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:11 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Sorry i left one part "Means if a normal male is paired to a mutated female you will only get mutated males and non mutated females " So the expected results for a sex-linked mutation. Madas, I do not agree. I guess you have misread yourself because this is a matter you perfectly know. You should h...
by Recio
Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:15 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

And you are 100% sure that both types inherit sex-linked recessive? Means if a normal male is paired to a mutated female you will only get mutated males? The most common pairing used by bird hobbyists for sex-linked mutations is male /sexlinked mutation x sexlinked mutation female . But this pairin...
by Recio
Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:12 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi Johan, ... PS (post edited): I have just had a closer look at the Cinnamon SL-Ino Violet green bird. You are rigth Johan: there is not a lacewing pattern with more melanin on the outer part of the feathers, but rather the opposite: a bit less melanin in the outer part of the feathers producing a...
by Recio
Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:10 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi Recio, as always, a very welcome experience engaging with you (why are you so scarce these days?). You have some trouble with cinnamon-pallid, so let me try to address some of your points and maybe I can put your mind to ease. :D 1. These birds all have light nails on my computer. Nothing darker...
by Recio
Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:14 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi Johan, I have some troubles with the cinnamon pallid cross-overs: 1. Cinnamon nails colour and pallid nails colour are similar (ligth) ... how could this combo produce dark nails? 2. Cinnamon beak is red (sometimes the lower bill is a little brownish) and pallid beak is also red ... how could thi...
by Recio
Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:46 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi, I have changed to a better screen and I can clearly see that the last bird with the grey nails also shows a darker bill than the first bird with the lighther nails. Has anybody paired both cinnamon types together? Is there a different amount in brown melanin? Traceyweller, could you please take ...
by Recio
Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:55 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Cinnamon turquoise violet
Replies: 38
Views: 4115

Re: Cinnamon turquoise violet

Hi, It has been described cinnamon birds with ligth nails and others with grey nails, as in your pics. Are those different types of cinnamon? does it depend on minor genes? on strain specificities? IMO probably they are different alleles of cinnamon, but I do not know if somebody has made the study ...
by Recio
Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:33 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: 2B or not 2B ?
Replies: 29
Views: 3249

Re: 2B or not 2B ?

... following the idea of Opaline IRN as the same or as a different mutation than Opaline in other parrots: How could we know if Opaline is the same mutation? If there was a parrot able to hybridaze with IRN and showing the typical effects of Opaline in psittacofulvines we could try to get a hybrid ...
by Recio
Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:43 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: 2B or not 2B ?
Replies: 29
Views: 3249

Re: 2B or not 2B ?

Why? I think the opaline does not have the right color palett/playground to do its magic, or it won't allow it. hopefully pieds+ parblues? could provide such environment for Opaline to do its magical play of colors. Hi Ben, yes, unfortunately IRN breeders are going to miss out on the real magic, wh...
by Recio
Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:39 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: 2B or not 2B ?
Replies: 29
Views: 3249

Re: 2B or not 2B ?

adding another Parblue to emerald is going to make the bird greener not yellower. But only in regions of the body which haven't lost the melanins. :D So take the cleartail mutation in combination with parblue. The higher the "green" level the yellower the melanin free regions like belly or head (ma...
by Recio
Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:46 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged
Replies: 275
Views: 29048

Re: SL Edged

madas wrote:Hm, don't know if there is an original? The pics of the feather structure look excatly like the one in the book of Terry Martin. So probably some of the notes are taken from it too. I don't know but i can ask if you want.
Please, I think we all really want :P

Recio
by Recio
Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:16 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged
Replies: 275
Views: 29048

Re: SL Edged

Hi Madas, Pity German is a so complicated language!!! The information in this web site is very important and I guess it comes from an international publication, very probably itself written in English. Could we acces the original report? There are somethings which are not clear to me. They say that ...
by Recio
Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:33 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged
Replies: 275
Views: 29048

Re: SL Edged

Hi, I go with Lee about Cinnamon: it does not look Cinnamon to me in either the feet or the beak. And I also go with Madas thinking that another structural mutation is at work. Which one? He did not through any cobalt or violet offspring, so I always bet for a head ligthining mutation. We need inbre...
by Recio
Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:37 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: SL Edged
Replies: 275
Views: 29048

Re: SL Edged

Hmm.. My personal experience and studying of Greys is limited since I haven't owned any before this year. I have heard others who say their normal Greys can have a blue through their heads at certain angles and lights- similar to what I have heard for some Dark Blue Greys. -to me he (his head) only...
by Recio
Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:59 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What am i? (again)
Replies: 26
Views: 4414

Re: What am i? (again)

creative thought 8) Opaline to be part of the gen-makeup as well & we could possibly have here "the creation of Pallid" a triple x-over + allelicism in play equals; birth of a mutation :? Hi Ben, I certainly like your creative thought, but we should first analyse how does every double crossing over...
by Recio
Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:25 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What am i? (again)
Replies: 26
Views: 4414

Re: What am i? (again)

Very interesting disc. So here are the males: Misty SL Edged IndigoBlue Grey /Cinnamon /Lutino ... was this male paired to a green series hen? wondering if the opaline grey-green we see in below pic might be from the same parents? http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/img89021uft9y3dzp.jpg ... is...
by Recio
Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:56 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What am i? (again)
Replies: 26
Views: 4414

Re: What am i? (again)

Hi Madas, It seems that both males are brothers ... Do you know in each one which sex linked mutations are linked? Possibilities: 1. Lutino and cinnamon linked. 2. Lutino and SL edge linked. 3. Cinnamon and SL edge linked. 4. Lutino, cinnamon and SL edge linked, all of them together in the same chro...
by Recio
Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:17 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: maternal behaviour
Replies: 3
Views: 478

maternal behaviour

Hi everybody, Is maternal behaviour genetic or acquired? Do good mothers pass their behaviour to her daugthers within the genetic material or this is something learned by the chicks from their mother's behaviour? This question can be easily answered by those with a long experience in fostering birds...
by Recio
Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:44 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Another Puzzle...What am I?
Replies: 28
Views: 2216

Re: Another Puzzle...What am I?

Hi Melissa,

Excellent idea to pair the female up to a Blue.
Do you remmeber if this female dysplayed already at fledging the same base colour ... or did it appear later progressively?

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:01 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Another Puzzle...What am I?
Replies: 28
Views: 2216

Re: Another Puzzle...What am I?

Hi Melissa, I do not own any Emerald bird and pics are often too different depending on lighting conditions. I would like to hear comments from breeders of Emerald on your female phenotype ... because if this girl is really an Emerald Turquoise all of her offspring must be Emerald or Turquoise and n...
by Recio
Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:29 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Dark Factor? Dark Opline ?
Replies: 5
Views: 1036

Re: Dark Factor? Dark Opline ?

@ Madas ... the father is split Opaline :) .

@ Jim: Opaline and Cinnamon, which are sex linked mutations are at work. It would be very valuable to know the sex of the bird.

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:22 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Another Puzzle...What am I?
Replies: 28
Views: 2216

Re: Another Puzzle...What am I?

Hi Skyes_crew,

Could you confirm mother's phenotype? To me she looks like an Emerald TurquoiseBlue (or EmeraldTurquoise if you prefere). Emerald ... is evident. Turquoise because of her greener head and wing patches.

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:56 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Opaline comparison
Replies: 10
Views: 2685

Re: Opaline comparison

Hi Benjamin, In other species males split for Opaline can be detected . Ex: roseicollis : http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/community/showthread.php/75080-trick-to-recognize-a-split-opaline-roseicollis We usually say that an allele is recessive or dominant or ... but this is not correct. The genes ...
by Recio
Thu May 29, 2014 6:29 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Opaline comparison
Replies: 10
Views: 2685

Re: Opaline comparison

It seems that the "width" of the refringent feather pattern is lower when structural mutations are present but there is only one example of Green Opaline to compare. Could you confirm? Hi Recio, well spotted. :D But it's only true for males as i noticed in my aviaries. :( The opaline violet(sf) blu...
by Recio
Thu May 29, 2014 1:01 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutation?
Replies: 99
Views: 9576

Re: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutat

Hi everybody, Johan is rigth: Dominance is not inherent to an allele. It is a relationship between alleles; one allele can be dominant over a second allele, recessive to a third allele, and codominant to a fourth. For further and easy reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_(genetics) .... ...
by Recio
Mon May 26, 2014 2:01 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Opaline comparison
Replies: 10
Views: 2685

Re: Opaline comparison

Hi Madas, Congratulations for the pics. It would be great if you could add in the same pic some feathers from Blue Opaline. Are all those feathers from SF Opaline birds (hemizygous females)? Any difference respective to DF Opalines (homozygous males)?. It seems that the "width" of the refringent fea...
by Recio
Mon May 26, 2014 11:44 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What is this dark Violet?
Replies: 27
Views: 3941

Re: What is this dark Violet?

William Stobart reminded me of the image below, taken 2 years ago, of the same hen on the introductory image on the left, together with her sister and thus from the same gene-pool mix. There is a clear colour difference, with the one on the right darker, more matt, lacking the gloss of the one left...
by Recio
Sat May 24, 2014 1:20 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutation?
Replies: 99
Views: 9576

Re: Can (turquoise/emerald) Parblue ever be a Dominant Mutat

Hi Lee, The consensual definition of the inheritance pattern is made respective to the wild type. Thus Turquoise is a recessive mutation since an heterozygous WildTurquoise displays a wild pattern colour. Nevertheless, in our aviaries we are vanishing the psittacin pigment as we mostly try to work o...
by Recio
Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:57 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What is the exact mutation of this hen ?
Replies: 10
Views: 1307

Re: What is the exact mutation of this hen ?

Hi Sherjil, 1) As the bird is visual cinnamon & it is kept in an outdoor aviary, is it possible that the dilution on the flights may be due to exposure to the sun ? If so then why this dilution is showing a specific pattern rather than giving a bleached effect of the exposed flight feather area ? I ...
by Recio
Sun Apr 27, 2014 6:55 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?
Replies: 28
Views: 4105

Re: How to identify homozygous Indigo Chicks ?

Hi Sherjil, How old is the father? I can not see any ring, despite that any parblue male, either Indigo or Turquoise, in either heterozygous or homozygous birds, should show at least the black ring, excepting if it has not reached sexual maturity (of course just speaking from a phenotypic point of v...
by Recio
Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:10 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What is the exact mutation of this hen ?
Replies: 10
Views: 1307

Re: What is the exact mutation of this hen ?

Hi Sherjil, Let's analyse one pigment each time: 1. For psittacins : both parents are, as you say, heterozygous ParblueBlue since they have been able to produce an albino bird (current clutch mates). Which is the parblue present in the parents? On my monitor it seems that the amount of psittacin pre...
by Recio
Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:05 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What am I?
Replies: 30
Views: 1702

Re: What am I?

I would say sfViolet TurquoiseBlue SL Edged I agree with Sheyd, but the parblue component does not look like the typical patched parblues (Turquoise or Indigo) since the wing patch is not present, and the distribution of psittacins in the body is not homogeneous but patched. Could this be an effect...
by Recio
Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:43 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: **** URGENT ALL South African Breeders ****
Replies: 71
Views: 20263

Re: **** URGENT ALL South African Breeders ****

Hi, This law has been applyed in Spain from 2-3 years ago and now breeders can not trade their birds and can not import new mutations. As a result most of them have moved to the breeding of other species and it has become almost impossible to find IRN in Spain. Hope you will be able to stop this pro...
by Recio
Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:03 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What am i
Replies: 9
Views: 784

Re: What am i

Hi, On a different screen I can see that the primary flying feathers are not brown but rather grey pointing to pallid instead of cinnamon, but then ... what about the eyes? Does anyone know how a combo NSL-ino Cinnamon looks like? Similar to SL-Ino Cinnamon (light green-yellow) or just like a lutino...
by Recio
Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:56 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: What am i
Replies: 9
Views: 784

Re: What am i

Hi, At first view this bird looks like a ligth creamino (ligth TurquoiseBlue SL-Ino) but ... 1. The primary flying feathers are not white but brownish ... so another mutation is present, may be Cinnamon. 2. The eyes show pinball pupiles, despite that the bird is not exposed to a high intensity ligth...
by Recio
Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:16 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Equivalent mutation in ringnecks
Replies: 5
Views: 708

Re: Equivalent mutation in ringnecks

Hi Sherjil, A parblue mutation is a mutation partially removing psittacins. The DYC is partially removing cheek psittacins so that red psittacins can not be further produced and there are only yellow psittacins (data points to the production of red psittacins from yellow psittacins). From your post ...
by Recio
Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:41 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Equivalent mutation in ringnecks
Replies: 5
Views: 708

Re: Equivalent mutation in ringnecks

Hi Sherjil,

I know nothing about cockatiels but a change of the cheek patch from orange-red to yellow inheriting as co-dominant points to a parblue mutation.

Recio
by Recio
Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:22 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Parblue proof
Replies: 15
Views: 1982

Re: Emerald Parblue proof

Hi Molossus The green chick is not anything to do with clutch. It is in the photo only to show the clear difference between the yellow tones in Green, TurquoiseEmerald, and EmeraldBlue cleartails. As you can see they are quite obviously different. I use that difference to prove to myself that none ...
by Recio
Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:24 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: A blue puzzle
Replies: 40
Views: 3097

Re: A blue puzzle

Hi my guess is blue 2 on right and blue 1 one left this observation was first commented by Babu some years ago where he pointed to b1 as being the normal expression until the parblue mutations started producing the b2 he also pointed to both phenotype were difficult to pick when seperated this brin...
by Recio
Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:15 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: DF Emeralds
Replies: 47
Views: 2852

Re: DF Emeralds

Hi,

All my male birds got his neckring at 2 years old in France, excepting the Clearhead fallow, which is known to mature later (3 years).

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:44 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Harlequins
Replies: 26
Views: 2670

Re: Harlequins

Hi Chris,

It seems to me that there is some yellow colour on her primary wing and tail flying feathers. Could you confirm? It it was the case she should not be classed as turquoise :?:
Did you look at her under uv?

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:36 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: DF Emeralds
Replies: 47
Views: 2852

Re: DF Emeralds

The DF Emerold is now getting a neckring at 3yrs old So Recio your theory of emerald being a structual mutation is swiming away. :( Have you ever ask Chris Whipps regarding the age of the DF emerald? If not how can you base your theory of DF emeralds males don't get a neckring on cock of unknown ag...
by Recio
Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:23 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi Madas & Ben; Thank you for the correction. I misunderstood that a Violet Blue was also bred from that bird. Anyway if you analyse the possibilities with the non parblue model, you will find that the results are also explained considering that the male could be Green Violet heterozygous Blue heter...
by Recio
Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:36 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Johan, My pleasure! Hi Recio, I can see a red ring in the last pic, download the pic and zoom in but not too much due to low res. When i meet up with Aaron i'll take pics of high res. that will allow us to zoom in without distortion to the pic. If i agree with the 2 points? not really Sounds like w...
by Recio
Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:31 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi everybody, Back from a long week-end and I have just found some very interesting ideas/pics. 1. Do Turquoise and Emerald interaction induce a diferent phenotype than the simple addition of both phenotypes? That is an Emerald TurquoiseBlue (or an EmeraldBlue if you prefere till we get the rigth cu...
by Recio
Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:38 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi Deon, Nice birds. I guess the offspring in the pic are all females, and the brother is not there. I also guess that you have posted it waiting for coments without inducing any idea with your thoughts ... so here I go: Opaline is known to increase the expression of psittacins, so if there were in...
by Recio
Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:13 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Father a TurqBlue Opaline on the left, the mother Emerald Blue or Emerald on the far right 2013-11-09 18.33.14-1.jpg Hi Deon, Nice birds. I guess the offspring in the pic are all females, and the brother is not there. I also guess that you have posted it waiting for coments without inducing any ide...
by Recio
Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:02 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Let's not forget that Mike's hen is merely 1 year old bird, certainly not mature. You used to be very strong on not using young Parblues to compare/judge their phenotype Hi Ringo, A 1 year old breeding female is "mature enough for breeding", but you are rigth: the final colour is only achieved afte...
by Recio
Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:35 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Harlequins
Replies: 26
Views: 2670

Re: Harlequins

Come on Deon,

Input data, please!!! :shock:

Recio
by Recio
Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:27 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi everybody, I said that the pics were not good enough to show, under normal lighting, the presence of the yellow colour (either pigmentary or structural) in the tail feathers of the Emerald Green Cleartail/Turquoise female. Now I have made some new pics with a black background and the yellow colou...
by Recio
Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:05 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

firstly Mikes bird, are we certain it is an Emerald Green as I am under the impression that it was called an Emerald turquoise blue, having turquoise in the makeup of the bird can we truly see if it is green series or blue series Emerald. Hi Gratz, Mike's bird was called EmeraldTurquoise Cleartail ...
by Recio
Mon Dec 30, 2013 1:30 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi everybody, Some pics: Tools: from left to rigth 395nm torch, 365 nm torch & broad uv spectrum lamp http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99/PC300816_zps6b0d910f.jpg Emerald Green main tail feather between two blue feathers (dorsal view, normal lighting): http://i1298.photobucket.com/albu...
by Recio
Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:35 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi Deon,

Your last pics seems to confirm that there is more "yellow" colour under uv on the ventral part of the tail feathers (specially in the proximal part) than in the dorsal part.

Recio
by Recio
Sun Dec 29, 2013 3:01 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi Deon, My observations of Emerald feathers were made in total darkness and with a black background. The colour I saw matches the one in your pic: green-yellow-yellowish and, as you say, without the warmer colour of the patched psittacin we can see in green, lutinos and parblues (mainly Turquoise)....
by Recio
Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:45 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Harlequins
Replies: 26
Views: 2670

Re: Harlequins

Hi Deon,

No pic at all on my screen. Please, give more data :)
Recio
by Recio
Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:36 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi Paul, Maybe it is a language problem from me, but I am not yet sure to have correctly understood. Are you meaning that the australian Emeralds have arised in Australia and are not related at all to the indian Emeralds described by Babu? I have has some private communications saying that both are ...
by Recio
Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:08 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Colour of feet and nails
Replies: 9
Views: 1437

Re: Colour of feet and nails

So as you can see the breeders records are not reliable so I can't go with what he tells me as I still can't get how he bred the Green male from DF Turquoise to the Blue Turquoise? Lushen Hi Luschen, A green bird from two blue series birds? If true, you have a precious bird split for two different ...
by Recio
Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:12 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Colour of feet and nails
Replies: 9
Views: 1437

Re: Colour of feet and nails

Hi Luschen,

Which is the genetic make up of the parents?

Recio
by Recio
Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:05 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi Paul, I always had the idea that the Emerald mutation arised in India and was first described by Babu. But you wrote: The feathers from Mike are from the Australian mutation that was visually selected for it's phenotype by the late JS there was never any suggestion that this bird was related to I...
by Recio
Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:08 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

The feathers from Mike are from the Australian mutation that was visually selected for it's phenotype by the late JS there was never any suggestion that this bird was related to Indian wild caught family this bird was also a darker hue as depicted in the earlier photo it was also regretfull that Ja...
by Recio
Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:24 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Re: Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi everybody, @ Peter: I will post pics next week when my wife will take the camera back. @ Johan: 1. About fluorescence: the colour I see is quite close to the yellowish fluorescence of the patched psittacin in wild birds wing and head, but a bit greener. Mike has got similar results by using the s...
by Recio
Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:23 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald Green Fluorescence
Replies: 95
Views: 8199

Emerald Green Fluorescence

Hi everybody, I have received Mike's feathers from his "Emerald Turquoise Cleartail" and "Emerald split Cleartail" females, and I have look at them under a broad spectrum uv ligth and under a LED torch emitting at 395 nm. The observations are the same for both birds in both pulled and molted feather...
by Recio
Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:38 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Emerald = line breeded Indigo to eliminate the patchiness??? After the above comments may be we could reformulate Madas words as: Aqua = line breeded Indigo to eliminate the patchiness??? I agree with Chris that it is not possible to produce Emerald by line breeding Indigos (or even the very specul...
by Recio
Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:49 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Ring0Neck wrote:
I suggest & i believe i speak for most of us Willy to rejoin the forum.
We need to communicate with each other !!!! and yes lesson learnt for all i guess, lets move on pls





Ben
I am definitely for, even if Madas is a great translator.

Recio
by Recio
Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:39 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Further to the above, I have also been paying a lot more attention to blue birds in a couple of collections I've been visiting. It looks as if we have two different blue phenotypes this side of the ocean as well, similar to what Paul has been describing. I'll be studying these birds more closely, b...
by Recio
Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:28 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi,

Mind away :oops: :lol:
Previous post reedited for correction

Thanks

Recio
by Recio
Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:17 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

I will make a similarity with melanin: SL-ino and NSL-ino could be the equivalent of Blue-1 and Blue-2 loci, each acting on different enzymes leading to the synthesis of melanin. We are able to make the difference easily because its different inheritance pattern, but if both genes were located in a...
by Recio
Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:49 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Madas, so which ones are the emerald tail feathers? Time to reveal the mystery. :D According to Willy the two left feathers are the emerald. Under UV they show a slight fluorescence but not as much as on the body compared to Deons pics. madas Hi Madas, In that pic we can not see either the yellow c...
by Recio
Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:09 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Madas,

Could you tell Willy to take the pics under natural sun ligth? .... just to see how the apparent hue depends on ligth spectrum and iridescence.

Recio
by Recio
Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:24 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Wll ithis pair raise a new mutation
Replies: 9
Views: 803

Re: Wll ithis pair raise a new mutation

Hi Lee,

Best wishes for the new married and all your familly. May the new offspring to come make you a happy man (even more than now :lol: :lol: :lol: )

Best regards

Recio
by Recio
Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:01 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

I always thought that the blue locus was an identical site on a pair of autosomal chromosomes that carried the genetic instructions for the production and distribution of yellow pigment. I never read it to mean the location of an individual gene that had changed in some way to alter the nature of a...
by Recio
Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:43 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Recio ... was it Terry or Deon who stated that if they are alleles from the same locus ,,, when mated together the parblue (allele) closest to the wildcolor will dominate over the partner allele (parblue)... will this hold true in all cases? Not, not at all. It depends, at least, on two factors: 1....
by Recio
Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:48 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Recio et al.. assuming the Emerald is a parble(ok Willie :o ) and that it has a close relationship with other parblues eg turq ,indigo etc.. Why are the feather irridiscense so unlike each other...viz adult emerald and adult turq feathers are noway near close ... ? Why does the underwing not bear a...
by Recio
Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:55 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

I am still assuming that the b locus, as I understand it, is the site from where instructions for synthesis of yellow pigment are issued. Am I correct in assuming that loci b1, b2 etc are sites within the broad compass of the b locus where alleles have their effect? So, when you talk about a second...
by Recio
Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:23 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi, I guess that everybody has got the idea: each step concerning the pathway for the synthesis of any final product can be affected by a mutation blocking the production of the specific enzyme concerned at such step. That is: if there is a null mutation of the gene coding for the enzyme 1 we will g...
by Recio
Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:55 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi Mike, I will try to answer your questions step by step ... but I need your collaboration. Let's see a standard model of a very simple metabolic pathway adapted to the synthesis of any mollecule. Let's call yellow psittacin to such final mollecule. http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/ag57/jrecio99...
by Recio
Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:10 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Johan,

That is what I was understanding from Mike's words. Maybe we understood different birds when speaking about the chick (suppossed split Emerald or his son showing Emerald) :)

Recio
by Recio
Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:21 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi Johan, I do not need any answer. I have catch it !!! The key is the change in velocity of the wave propagation. The apparent wavelength changes when there is a change in the refraction index, but velocity changes in the same degree, so that the frequency is not affected and neither the real wavel...
by Recio
Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:11 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Mike,

You are 100% rigth.
One more thing: I was not aware that Aaron's "green split Emerald" was also Violet. This changes everything since we have some evidence that Violet could act on cortex structure, and thus mask the action of other mutations (Emerald) at this level.

Regards

Recio
by Recio
Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:33 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

[The refraction index will not affect the wavelength/frequency, only the velocity of the wave propagation. Notice along the grey line in the image that the spacing (wavelength) between the blue wavefronts are the same in both mediums. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Snells_law_wa...
by Recio
Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:25 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi everybody, Thank you Johan for your explanation about the independency of wavelength respective to the refractive index (I must think about it since my first perception is that the wavelength is affected). In this case we could conclude that the apparent change in fluorescence probably depends on...
by Recio
Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:23 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi all this is from a birdo's view which has been based on observation and although not scientific I believe has merit as myself and some other fanciers have been pondering over the possibility of a second blue at a time when this senerio was out of the question .First some history the blue irn in ...
by Recio
Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:41 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

1) How do we 100% conclusively know for sure that emerald contains psittacin when not a single feather study has been done. :?: To my knowledge, an emerald feather has not even been placed under a microscope. 2) What do you think the above trickery will look like under a UV lamp? Why this question,...
by Recio
Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:43 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Recio I will get feathers from my only 2 mature emerald hens, one EmeraldTurquoise and the other EmeraldBlue.They are both just finishing weaning chicks and starting to molt. I will pull feathers so that I am sure I have the correct ones but there will only be a couple from each as I don't like ...
by Recio
Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:04 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Blue-2: Wild-2, Emerald .... so that Emerald behaves incomplete dominant over Wild-2 Hm, hard to follow your argumentation. So why do you call it a second blue mutation if there isn't any allele on this second locus which is causing a blue phenotype for homozyguos expression? So for a true second b...
by Recio
Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:17 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Re: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi Paul,

This is what I also think and you have perfectly explained it.

Recio
by Recio
Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:27 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN
Replies: 37
Views: 1962

Blue-1 and Blue-2 in IRN

Hi everybody, I will try to develop a model of two blue loci located in the same chromossome trying to explain the different Blue, Parblue and Emerald combinations producing different phenotypes. Let's calculate the possible genetic combinations of two possible blue loci in the same chromossome. All...
by Recio
Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:28 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Mike; So many questions .... Indigos are similar to Turquoise in psittacin distribution but with a lower amount/intensity of psittacins, and do not show the red ring (typical of Turquoise either heterozygous or homozygous) or just a very faint one in the homozygous birds. Thus Indigos also show p...
by Recio
Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:53 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Mike, I think that you have perfectly analyzed the present situation and the reasons why I ask Cleartail to look for a patched Turquoise Emerald. Have you had a look at your birds under uv? I am always thinking about Willy's non fluorescent Emeralds and his anormally patched Emeralds, with fluore...
by Recio
Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:15 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

So after reading that article. I am convinced the emerald grey I was offered must not be an emerald - too many blotches on the wings. Maybe and emerald turquoise grey though??? Yes, and probably it is a genetic Emerald TurquoiseBlue Grey Hopefully after next breeding season I can contribute more to...
by Recio
Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:31 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: DF Emeralds
Replies: 47
Views: 2852

Re: DF Emeralds

Hi Paul,

I can not acces the ABK Vol 21 Issue 3 June/July 2008. Is there a link in the web to read it?

Thanks

Recio
by Recio
Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:39 pm
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Recio, just to make sure I follow correctly. If we are going with option 2 of a linked gene, are you also saying that a green emerald / turquoise and a green emerald / blue will look the same? Hi Johan, I think that you are grasping the main idea. In a classical system a green emerald / turquoise a...
by Recio
Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:32 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

You've told us that birds we call turquoise-emerald are in fact green/ which no one here will agree with that statement, but you're saying the green/emerald of Aaron's although 2 breeders sees it as green is in fact emerald green Bit of a stretch on all counts. We have real data yet you're ignoring...
by Recio
Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:23 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Madas, We have two hypothesis: 1. Emerald is a parblue mutation, that is Emerald is a mutation of the Blue locus like Indigo or Turquoise. 2. Emerald is an independent incomplete dominant mutation linked to the Blue locus, that is the Emerald locus and the Blue locus are in the same chromossome, ...
by Recio
Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:23 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Emerald and Emerald turquoise
Replies: 82
Views: 6224

Re: Emerald and Emerald turquoise

Hi Ben Just got a call from Michael Laffey. His EmeraldTurquoise Cleartail hen to Violet Blue split cleartail cock apparently produced 3 EmeraldBlue Cleartail chicks and 3 Violet Turquoise Cleartail chicks.I congratulated him on six out of six cleartails from that pairing. Kind regards Mike 6/6 cle...
by Recio
Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:46 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: DF Emeralds
Replies: 47
Views: 2852

Re: DF Emeralds

Hi everybody; I will do very short: if Emerald was a parblue the only genetic possibilities would be BlueEmerald and ParblueEmerald (I will not consider the DF Emerald here, not yet). Two genetic combinations producing two distinc phenotypes. If I am not wrong we have far more than 2 phenotypes: Blu...
by Recio
Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:20 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: I quit
Replies: 7
Views: 653

Re: I quit

While there are pseudo scientist types on this or any other forum who don't appreciate plain simple logic to anything put forward, who agree on the plan required to prove something, then when the results don't fit their fixed model, they hit you with the what ifs, the idiotic hypotheticals and are ...
by Recio
Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:09 am
Forum: Mutations/Genetics
Topic: Case Closed: Emerald = Parblue Mutation
Replies: 199
Views: 13774

Re: Case Closed: Emerald = Parblue Mutation

Your birds seem to be BlueBlue SF Emeralds and ParblueBlue SF Emeralds. Recio, same thing, how can a bird with psitticins be Blue? You are evading the obvious as I think you are smart enough not to overlook the obvious. I wonder however. I'll try again and this is the last time I will enter into an...